Hi all,

I am looking into purchasing a home in my area that includes a mother in law suite. Because of this in-law it provides a great cash flowing property that you don't see much around. This is a flipped property and the agent is the flipper. When we walked through the home we noticed the laminate flooring is slightly unlevel in certain places, my only thought is that it could be a foundation problem causing it.

I'm just looking for how others proceed in these types of situations, I am still very interested in this property and not scared of the foundation issue at least not before getting a quote to estimate the repairs (if this is even the problem). I know sometimes flippers try to focus on cosmetics and not the bones of the house at times so what do you look for if you are going to purchase a home that has been flipped? It was built in 1917 and was done nicely I'm just not sure if corners were cut and that is hard to get down to until the inspection.

Thanks in advanced for all your responses,

MarieChele

@MarieChele Porter Before you close the deal, I would have an inspection report done. I have multiple investment properties that were built about 100 years ago. I have dealt with this kind of stuff in the past. Foundations are one of the most expensive things to repair. I can see why a flipper would want to avoid this repair as it probably would eliminate their profit, especially in CA right now. 

What I always do in the event of a bad foundation (or really any substantial repair I did not expect) is I'll get an inspection report done, get some quotes, and take out that cost from my offer. With the inspection report and some comps on the repair as reasoning for the lowered sale price, most people will go for the price deduction. And with a flip investment, there is usually not a whole lot of room left to increase ARV, so I would make sure everything was done correctly. You don't want to make repairs that wont add value!

@Andy Eakes

I agree! Cool. As far as things like checking if plumbing work was updated, electrical, or other things behind the walls... Are inspectors able to find those things as well or do you pull permits? How do you find out if those things were passed up on instead of taking the sellers word for it?

Inspectors are able to send cameras down the drains to get a better look. If it is a flip though, they are required to give disclosures (should happen in any RE transaction), so they should tell you whether or not they did anything to the pipes. Your agent should be able to communicate it to their side. You dont have to pull permits in order to learn about the drains. But with old homes, unless they did a relining or replacement though, expect the pipes to be old. I just got one with an old drain pipe and it was like $12,000 to have relined. I knew this going in thanks to the inspection and estimates I had done, so it wasn't a big deal, but had I not known that, that definitely wouldve been a surprise.  

@MarieChele Porter

This could be as simple as uneven underlay, or 2 different subfloor thicknesses used and to lazy to correct it.

Originally posted by @Andy Eakes :

Inspectors are able to send cameras down the drains to get a better look. If it is a flip though, they are required to give disclosures (should happen in any RE transaction), so they should tell you whether or not they did anything to the pipes. Your agent should be able to communicate it to their side. You dont have to pull permits in order to learn about the drains. But with old homes, unless they did a relining or replacement though, expect the pipes to be old. I just got one with an old drain pipe and it was like $12,000 to have relined. I knew this going in thanks to the inspection and estimates I had done, so it wasn't a big deal, but had I not known that, that definitely wouldve been a surprise.  

 Awesome dude thanks for the info! I feel like that's the thing I just want to know as much as I can and how to get that information before buying... As long as I know what to expect and if the costs are close enough to still turn a profit we should be okay. 

@Account Closed

So I may just have gone to the worst conclusion lol just a matter of getting the inspection to see I hope your guess is correct ☺️

@MarieChele Porter I know! Estimating rehab costs seems to be the hardest thing for a lot of investors. I know I still have hard time figuring out what something will cost. As you start to tour similar homes though, you'll start to see some of the same stuff enough to where you can make an educated guess at least! It's better than nothing...

@Andy Eakes

For sure, I even bought the book from BP by J. Scott it's time for a re-read lol the only thing is being in CA it almost seems like you have to times by 1.5-2 like EVERYTHING is really so much more expensive than other places !! I have to be careful listening to numbers on the BP podcast when I double check them I'm always like oh that's a lot higher here...

from my own experience, foundation issues would show up in other areas as well, like walls, especially around windows and doorways, as well as outside walls. do you like the property enough to get it under contract and inspected?

@MarieChele Porter I have had the same experience. House building and construction materials are more expensive right now in general because of COVID and all the demand for the materials right now. I know that in CA too, because of all the fires, lumber is at a really high price right now. It's almost better to get a house that just needs cosmetic work to get rented out right now. Then you can cash flow for a bit, or at least build equity, and then when the prices go down you can get into more extensive stuff. 

@Victor S.

Yes the numbers work on this property bc of the added in law suite and will make a great house hack... This is hard to find in my area... It was built in 1917 so I think that's where my mind went straight to lol we did see a small crack in the corner of the of the outside of the house and the front door was hung somewhat sideways where there was a gap at the bottom and tight at the top (not sure if this matters)... I guess this also made me think of it being a foundation issue...

@Andy Eakes

Very good point! This house was done really nice so as long as the inspection checks out it will be turn key, that is yet to be found out though... my real estate agent did mention though that sometimes sellers will provide credits for these issues but we are going to find out if this seller will work with us if anything comes up...

Originally posted by @MarieChele Porter :

@Victor S.

Yes the numbers work on this property bc of the added in law suite and will make a great house hack... This is hard to find in my area... It was built in 1917 so I think that's where my mind went straight to lol we did see a small crack in the corner of the of the outside of the house and the front door was hung somewhat sideways where there was a gap at the bottom and tight at the top (not sure if this matters)... I guess this also made me think of it being a foundation issue...

103 year-old home would probably show signs of a compromised foundation long ago, imho. sounds like it's just shoddy workmanship, but definitely get it inspected if/when you go under contract.

Originally posted by @Victor S. :

Originally posted by @MarieChele Porter:

@Victor S.

Yes the numbers work on this property bc of the added in law suite and will make a great house hack... This is hard to find in my area... It was built in 1917 so I think that's where my mind went straight to lol we did see a small crack in the corner of the of the outside of the house and the front door was hung somewhat sideways where there was a gap at the bottom and tight at the top (not sure if this matters)... I guess this also made me think of it being a foundation issue...

103 year-old home would probably show signs of a compromised foundation long ago, imho. sounds like it's just shoddy workmanship, but definitely get it inspected if/when you go under contract.

 

I think your probably right but yes an inspection is a must! Thanks for your input!!

@MarieChele Porter it is definitely poor workmanship. They should have leveled the subfloor before installing the laminate. When you see them cut one corner, it always makes me wonder what other corners they cut? It is probably not a major foundation issue. Most properties that old have done the majority of their settling, unless it is on a hillside or some other factor that could make it worse over time. @Andy Eakes mentioned scoping the drains, which is a good idea. That is usually an extra service you need to request from home inspectors, but a good idea on a property this old. 

Sounds like a nice find. Don't let a minor issue scare you away. Good luck!

@Joe Splitrock

Yes cool definitely makes you wonder about the corners cut but this is great advice being that I didn't know scoping the drains was an extra service to request but definitely will do! Always grateful for my BP buds 😊

Originally posted by @MarieChele Porter :

@Joe Splitrock

Yes cool definitely makes you wonder about the corners cut but this is great advice being that I didn't know scoping the drains was an extra service to request but definitely will do! Always grateful for my BP buds 😊

 Some inspector don't even run water down every drain. Sometimes on a flip, the water is turned off so you need to specify that it must be on for inspections.

Hi @MarieChele Porter ,

I would recommend getting a home inspection. I once got a deal under contract, and found it had foundation issues (we had a foundation machine on hand). We got a home inspection during our option period and negotiated the price down even further because of the issue. The money we saved negotiating was more money than the home inspection.

Always, always, always get a home inspection! 

@Joe Splitrock

When we did the walk through it was off! I will make that request for inspections!

@Andrew Frowiss

Yes for sure that is an important part of the plan! Thank you!

Its a quick  fix, this flipper is hiding the issue of a bad floor,  He should have tiled or carpeted it instead!!!!

Best Regards!

Jacking up a house and leveling is a huge undertaking, the walls can crack, the roof fall in. What's the song the house don't fall when the bones are good? They hid the bones, the nerves and the feet. Flipper paints it grey, puts in clean cabinets new fake flooring what can go wrong? 

@MarieChele Porter

So, the property was built in 1917... Original foundation?  

First off, what type of foundation?  I mean is over 100 years old, and if is concrete good chances are concrete will be over due for maintenance, if you have any good reason to believe so... I bet the concrete is not dense with aggregate, and aggregate is like pebble river rock instead of crushed aggerate.  Keep in mind, the concrete made in 1917 is very different from the concrete you find in our time.  And like anything else, concrete has a lifespan before you need to retrofit due to degradation with time.  Typically engineers design stuff in concrete for 50 years before doing any major repairs.   

On the other hand, I will be surprised if a foundation built in 1917 is studently given up.  Typically you see foundation  settlement within the first 25 years, then settlement is basically none and that's the end of the story.  Now, keep in mind that grade around the structure may have changed since then.  The main possibility for the foundation issue (if was not an issue for the last 50 years) may be due to water getting on the sides and under the foundation itself.  Keep in mind the type of soil.  Fine clays and mainly silts are problematic because they could be dormant but when water finds them then they react, expanding substantially therefore the failure of foundations.  You know, you can always hire an engineer (geotechnical or civil with this type of experience).  You can call the foundation repair company also, just be aware of what they have to say and tell them you are calling more companies for an estimate.  

@MarieChele Porter definitely get an inspection. Foundation repairs can add up. Get at least 3 (5+ if you have time) quotes.