Local electricity provider runs conduit in our property without easement

Investor · Pacific Northwest · Member since 2018 · 71 posts · 19 votes

Hello,

I just found out that our local electricity provider runs a cable in our ground behind a commercial building we own without and easement in place. The cable connects two vaults and is part of a bigger electricity grid servicing private and public infrastructure. The provider does not even know where exactly the cable runs, we only know the start and end point (the two vaults).

We bought the building about two years ago and have no knowledge of history how this situation came together.

What are issues to consider at this point and how would you proceed in a situation like this?

Thank you for your response!

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

Do you only care because you want the $$ from an easement payment? Or is it interfering with the operation of your establishment? If that was the case it would be easier to get a case going.

Depending on how long this has been in place and what the local municipality says, they could be grandfathered in. A lot of times, utilities get special treatment because they are considered necessary to a community.

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Ronald RohdePro Member
Attorney · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
How do you know where it runs? You can send a trespass notice, then negotiate for an easement, they pay you.
You can cut it out, but don't die. When was the last time you checked recorded easements or deed restrictions?
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Scott Mac
Austin, TX · Member since 2019 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
2y
They have special detectors to locate buried cable, and to determine it's depth.
A utility location service may be able to help you out.
Good Luck!
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Nikolas Engel
OP
Investor · Pacific Northwest · Member since 2018 · 71 posts · 19 votes
2y
@Ronald Rohde and @Scott Mac
Thank you Gentlemen for you input. No party knows where the cable runs exactly - we just know it is connected to two vaults left and right of the building. Checked on recorded easements last week, nothing to be found in title report. Removal would heavily impact the entire grid serving no only our building but also other private and public infrastructure.
How do you establish the worth of an easement? And how do you bring a big energy provider to the table to talk about it?
In any case, as a first step they will have to do the utility location service to be in a position to draft a legal description for the new easement.
Thank you both again!
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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
2y
Do you only care because you want the $$ from an easement payment? Or is it interfering with the operation of your establishment? If that was the case it would be easier to get a case going.
Depending on how long this has been in place and what the local municipality says, they could be grandfathered in. A lot of times, utilities get special treatment because they are considered necessary to a community.
3 Reply
Henry ClarkPro Member
Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
We had two similar issues on one property. They were grandfathered in. One private sewer connection. Other small gas line connection. Unless you’re tearing your building down and rebuilding, you might have them move, if there is a place to move over to.
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Nikolas Engel
OP
Investor · Pacific Northwest · Member since 2018 · 71 posts · 19 votes
2y
@Bruce Woodruff and @Henry Clark
Thank you guys, in the meantime I found out that there is a gas line and a telecommunication line also without easement agreement. I should have seen all of this during due diligence - steep learning curve on my end.
I will engage with the utility providers to work on an easement with specific legal description, not just a template covering the entire land of the property.
Thank you again for helping me understand how to navigate this situation.
1 Reply
Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Nikolas Engel:

@Bruce Woodruff and @Henry Clark
Thank you guys, in the meantime I found out that there is a gas line and a telecommunication line also without easement agreement. I should have seen all of this during due diligence - steep learning curve on my end.
I will engage with the utility providers to work on an easement with specific legal description, not just a template covering the entire land of the property.
This is absolutely necessary. The complete legal description (as it appears on your tax bill) should be included and modified to show the easement location...

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Henry ClarkPro Member
Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Make them pay for it. Surveying and legal description and recording.
Add this to your checklist. Also as you read posts keep adding to your checklist.
Next time use as a bargaining tool on purchase price.
Let the realtor you purchased thru know. Potential brownie points for any future deals thru them.
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Tom GimerBusiness Member
DMV · Member since 2017 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
2y
It's entirely possible the easement(s) exists but wasn't found in the title search because a full title search only goes back X years (with X being dependent upon the customs of the state).
For 3 utilities to be in the same location I highly doubt the use is without permission.
Gimer Law516 Reviews
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Alan F.
Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Nikolas Engel:

Hello,
I just found out that our local electricity provider runs a cable in our ground behind a commercial building we own without and easement in place. The cable connects two vaults and is part of a bigger electricity grid servicing private and public infrastructure. The provider does not even know where exactly the cable runs, we only know the start and end point (the two vaults).
We bought the building about two years ago and have no knowledge of history how this situation came together.
What are issues to consider at this point and how would you proceed in a situation like this?
Thank you for your response!

I'm a b2b commercial electrical contractor in nor cal, can't speak to easement issue.
But I've worked with our notorious utility for over 30 yrs, youd be amazed at how little documentation & organization they possess. Its so shoot from the hip its crazy, sometimes underground services are found by backhoes only.
Hopefully your experience goes well.
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Colleen F.Pro Member
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
@Nikolas Engel also at least by us the easement was per utility. So we had an easement for electricity but they needed a new one for gas which they abandoned trying to get. Probably need to get an idea when they were added. Telecommunications has to be most recent, might start with them.
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Ronald RohdePro Member
Attorney · Dallas, TX · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
2y
Can't you call the public locate service? 811 in TX, its free and they will mark the lines, the problem arises if they don't have it in their system.
You need to get this sorted, whether they pay you or not, its a known issue for you as a property owner.
1 Reply
Nikolas Engel
OP
Investor · Pacific Northwest · Member since 2018 · 71 posts · 19 votes
2y
Thank you everybody!

I appreciate your support and advice. There is so much to learn here - especially what to look for during due diligence!!

This all came to light by an easement request from a neighboring developer. They will do a survey to locate all conduits in the ground.

I am very surprised by the attitude of the electric utility provider who does not think that this mess has anything to do with them.

I am waiting for a response from the public locate service, thank you @Ronald Rohde, I did not even know that office exists.

2 Reply
Alan F.
Flipper/Rehabber · CA · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Nikolas Engel:

Thank you everybody!

I appreciate your support and advice. There is so much to learn here - especially what to look for during due diligence!!

This all came to light by an easement request from a neighboring developer. They will do a survey to locate all conduits in the ground.

I am very surprised by the attitude of the electric utility provider who does not think that this mess has anything to do with them.

I am waiting for a response from the public locate service, thank you @Ronald Rohde, I did not even know that office exists.

Perfectly put "attitude"
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Henry ClarkPro Member
Developer · Member since 2020 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
2y
Quote from @Nikolas Engel:

Thank you everybody!

I appreciate your support and advice. There is so much to learn here - especially what to look for during due diligence!!

This all came to light by an easement request from a neighboring developer. They will do a survey to locate all conduits in the ground.

I am very surprised by the attitude of the electric utility provider who does not think that this mess has anything to do with them.

I am waiting for a response from the public locate service, thank you @Ronald Rohde, I did not even know that office exists.

What you might find is the 811 locate will only do on public property or your right of ways. Locates "in" your property you may need to contract with a locate service.
2 Reply
Kristi KandelPro Member
Developer · Fort Myers Beach, FL · Member since 2018 · 383 posts · 195 votes
2y
Quote from @Nikolas Engel:

@Bruce Woodruff and @Henry Clark
Thank you guys, in the meantime I found out that there is a gas line and a telecommunication line also without easement agreement. I should have seen all of this during due diligence - steep learning curve on my end.
I will engage with the utility providers to work on an easement with specific legal description, not just a template covering the entire land of the property.
Thank you again for helping me understand how to navigate this situation.

Exactly. They currently likely have a prescriptive easement (your state might call it something different) which is an easement by right since they've been in the ground for so long. You should be able to get them to agree to their standard widths which should range in the 5-10' width.
If it's impacting your proposed project there are other scenarios to look into but if just getting official easements on title is your goal you're likely fine with the steps you're taking.
One division of my company does dry utility consulting (mostly in CA and the west coast) so I'm open to chat if you want to discuss the options.
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