Grant Cardone / Cardone Capital

Grant Cardone / Cardone Capital

Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes

My office received a call from one of his reps today. I thought the pitch was a pie in the sky type of deal.  Anyone hear of this guy on Youtube,  Grant Cardone?  He boasts a half a billion dollar real estate empire in Florida and Texas.  I believe he get's around 90% financing, plus he also takes in money from investors.  Something doesn't seem 100%.   He also does these seminars and other marketing stuff.  He seems all over the place and also trying to raise capital from others.  Just some basic math, if he's financing 90%, paying out at least 6% to investors, and locking in a 3.5% mortgage from Fannie Mae; because he's a preferred client, there doesn't seem much leeway for him to make money.  I understand the cash flow portion of it, as that is what we do.  We just do not raise capital or borrow money that much anymore.  However, my concern is that when the recession hits and the evictions start, that cash flow will dry up.  He seems to be working on extremely thin margins.  He's also in very lofty areas of Miami; which were the first to go in the last recession.  He reminds me of the Polka King (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Lewan).

Am I reading into the numbers incorrectly?

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JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
GC is legit. He was a guest on the Bigger Pockets podcast 3 years ago.

Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:

My office received a call from one of his reps today. I thought the pitch was a pie in the sky type of deal.  Anyone hear of this guy on Youtube,  Grant Cardone?  He boasts a half a billion dollar real estate empire in Florida and Texas.  I believe he get's around 90% financing, plus he also takes in money from investors.  Something doesn't seem 100%.   He also does these seminars and other marketing stuff.  He seems all over the place and also trying to raise capital from others.  Just some basic math, if he's financing 90%, paying out at least 6% to investors, and locking in a 3.5% mortgage from Fannie Mae; because he's a preferred client, there doesn't seem much leeway for him to make money.  I understand the cash flow portion of it, as that is what we do.  We just do not raise capital or borrow money that much anymore.  However, my concern is that when the recession hits and the evictions start, that cash flow will dry up.  He seems to be working on extremely thin margins.  He's also in very lofty areas of Miami; which were the first to go in the last recession.  He reminds me of the Polka King (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Lewan).

Am I reading into the numbers incorrectly?

 I don't want to comment on Cardone one way or the other but I wanted to note this post - everyone always needs to make sure they do their own research and due diligence. BP works hard to have good podcast guests but one should never assume that just because someone was on the radio they're real or worthwhile. Question everything - make no assumptions. Cardone is famous, but Bernie Madoff was famous too. 

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  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jim Chuong:

    I enjoy watching Ben Mallah and GC. I get different things from each. I learn from everyone, but I do my own deals. My background is in sales/marketing and there’s a reason why Fortune500 companies have insane marketing budgets and armies of sales staff. Largest share of voice/mind wins. Always. Not even close.

    Ben Mallah and GC are playing the game in different ways, but both can teach something to everybody on BP, regardless of how we feel about them

    Very true, but one has a proven track record an is not selling to outside mom and pop investors, the other is.  I have no dog in this race.  I am just laying down the facts and to allow everyone to make their own decisions.   

    BTW, Ben Mallah is good people.  Straight and to the point.  Hard to find a guy like that these days.

  • Investor · Alameda, CA · Member since 2016 · 132 posts · 170 votes
    7y

    @Calvin Thomas thanks for kicking off this thread. it stirred up some interesting discussion!

    Cardone Capital came up in conversation recently with some of our limited partners. They had recently invested in one of his funds. The pro forma on the fund looked attractive. Not a 'bad' deal, by any means.

    One thing the LPs did mention is that it the experience felt impersonal and they were looking for more of an open dialogue with their deal sponsors (i've heard this type of feedback from investors who switch from crowdfunding sites).

    They appreciated the personal touch of working with GP teams that they can actually interact with in a meaningful way. 

    On a personal note, Grant Cardone and I could not be more different, stylistically. That said, the contributions that Cardone has made to the worlds of sales and real estate are immense. Net-net, I truly believe that Grant Cardone has GIVEN more to this world than he has TAKEN from it. Wouldn't necessarily want to spend time in a conversation with him, but I appreciate his contributions.

  • Rental Property Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 22 posts · 17 votes
    7y

    Being on BP podcast doesn’t make you legit. Case in point, Clayton Morris has been interviewed as well.

    I haven’t read his PPM but if he’s leveraging up 90% that’s a bad sign.

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Spencer Hilligoss:

    @Calvin Thomas thanks for kicking off this thread. it stirred up some interesting discussion!

    Cardone Capital came up in conversation recently with some of our limited partners. They had recently invested in one of his funds. The pro forma on the fund looked attractive. Not a 'bad' deal, by any means.

    One thing the LPs did mention is that it the experience felt impersonal and they were looking for more of an open dialogue with their deal sponsors (i've heard this type of feedback from investors who switch from crowdfunding sites).

    They appreciated the personal touch of working with GP teams that they can actually interact with in a meaningful way. 

    On a personal note, Grant Cardone and I could not be more different, stylistically. That said, the contributions that Cardone has made to the worlds of sales and real estate are immense. Net-net, I truly believe that Grant Cardone has GIVEN more to this world than he has TAKEN from it. Wouldn't necessarily want to spend time in a conversation with him, but I appreciate his contributions.

    We've had a conversation with his team as mentioned earlier in this thread.  I wasn't impressed.  They offered to setup a time to discuss in more detail with Mr. Cardone; I passed.  The #'s don't work for an experienced investor.  However, if it works for you, more power to you. Again, when things are good, they are very very good.  However, when they turn bad, we'll see how things look when credit dries up.  The man refs constantly... It just smells bad..  Sorry.  

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Alot of people here are repeating that Grant Cardone is legit because they heard Grant cardone is legit as opposed to having direct experience with him. I think he is a phony. He seems to have bad morals, high greed and overall low self esteem. There was an interview where he said he liked his real estate more than his daughter because his real estate will never leave him.  Hes a loser and not worth doing business with.

    He's very popular here, and that' fine.  Yea, he's flashy and a big personality, but it's all to boost up his brand.  I get that, but he goes over the top.  It's great for social gathering, but in business, you do not want that type of attention and such.  Just my opinion, I know I am in the minority, but that's okay.

  • Member since 2018 · 110 posts · 109 votes
    7y

    Grant Cardone only cares about the cash. He does not come across as someone that uses 1031...hence why he hypes up the exit. He goes after grade A only.

    Ben Mallah is a guy that I respect. He doesn't go out and beg for money. In fact he will turn you away. He looks for value add. Does a lot of good work for the communities. Built everything with 1031 and been at it for 30 years? 

    Cardone goes out and takes expensive vacations that he calls working trips for taxes, and spends money on useless stuff. Ben Mallah tells you not to buy new even when it's a Rolls Royce.

  • Member since 2018 · 110 posts · 109 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Alot of people here are repeating that Grant Cardone is legit because they heard Grant cardone is legit as opposed to having direct experience with him. I think he is a phony. He seems to have bad morals, high greed and overall low self esteem. There was an interview where he said he liked his real estate more than his daughter because his real estate will never leave him.  Hes a loser and not worth doing business with.

    He's very popular here, and that' fine.  Yea, he's flashy and a big personality, but it's all to boost up his brand.  I get that, but he goes over the top.  It's great for social gathering, but in business, you do not want that type of attention and such.  Just my opinion, I know I am in the minority, but that's okay.

     It's a big turn off when he tries to beg military veterans and pro athletes to spend money in his fund.

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jonathon Weber:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Alot of people here are repeating that Grant Cardone is legit because they heard Grant cardone is legit as opposed to having direct experience with him. I think he is a phony. He seems to have bad morals, high greed and overall low self esteem. There was an interview where he said he liked his real estate more than his daughter because his real estate will never leave him.  Hes a loser and not worth doing business with.

    He's very popular here, and that' fine.  Yea, he's flashy and a big personality, but it's all to boost up his brand.  I get that, but he goes over the top.  It's great for social gathering, but in business, you do not want that type of attention and such.  Just my opinion, I know I am in the minority, but that's okay.

     It's a big turn off when he tries to beg military veterans and pro athletes to spend money in his fund.

    He needs to raise cheap capital, that's on of the ways he's doing it.  I just heard he's now going to be opening up to nonaccredited investors.  I.E. people who have less than a 50k net worth.  This is going to be a trainwreck.

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    Please no character assassinations or attacks on the forums. I tend to agree that syndicating to unsophisticated and non-accredited investors has lots of liability and risk for those investors who tend to not fully understand these types of investments.

    It's a decision various syndicators evaluate to see if they want to do or not.

    Different investors can have different goals when investing in syndicates. Some who are just over accredited investor status usually need that money to work real hard from a  cash flow perspective when investing. This can be especially true if they make under 100k a year at job or business and not much annual income (excess cash). Their net worth gain instead was tied to some big event where they bought bottom cycle and have had a run up.

    Conversely I tend to see the accredited investors making 500k, 1 million a year at their jobs or business looking more at long term equity growth. They already have tons of cash so just more taxes to pay.

    There are syndicators that have the business model of portfolios and taking fees where they hope over volume they average out into the positive over time with the losers, the break even, and the winners. Personally I like value add properties where there is strong upside as a sponsor. I don't like thin deals because any blip in the markets could ruin the pro-forma projections.  

    Multifamily isn't this darling that people think it is. It can be cyclical just like any other asset class. I saw in the last downturn what happened with multifamily. New projects never started, projects in process halted and became fractured and stagnant causing all kinds of issues for the tenants already there. ( At that time I saw regular lease up buildings being converted from some rentals to condo's they could sell for people to own.) 

    Existing multifamily flatlines for rents and landlords ran half off rent specials, waiver of security deposit, reduced rents, etc. just to try to maintain occupancy and keep vacancy down so the debt could be serviced. Additionally if rents flatline or do not keep pace with inflation the cash flow dollar is reduced and if property taxes rise, insurance policies, etc. the tenant does not pay for or reimburse typically like a retail property so that can further eat into projected returns. In a downturn class A topline renters start moving to cheaper properties like older class A or B type properties that still have amenities but cost per month Is much lower.

    Lot's of lenders right now will almost do anything to lend on multifamily. In a lot of ways it's topped out where reward ratio is low and risk factor is high. As for accredited investors and their individual demands a syndicator running a business model really doesn't have time for that. They can't individualize every single deal and have an investor take 20 hours of their time just so that investor gets comfortable investing 50k in a deal or 100k. To run a systematized business you have to create a model that stays the same over and over and you widen your funnel for passive investors that meet that criteria and accept the plan.

    It's just like my commercial real estate brokerage business. If I had to readapt every single deal to the way that particular investor wanted to do things versus a system that stays the same it would be hard to run an efficient and profitable business.  

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Joel Owens:

    Please no character assassinations or attacks on the forums. I tend to agree that syndicating to unsophisticated and non-accredited investors has lots of liability and risk for those investors who tend to not fully understand these types of investments.

    It's a decision various syndicators evaluate to see if they want to do or not.

    Different investors can have different goals when investing in syndicates. Some who are just over accredited investor status usually need that money to work real hard from a  cash flow perspective when investing. This can be especially true if they make under 100k a year at job or business and not much annual income (excess cash). Their net worth gain instead was tied to some big event where they bought bottom cycle and have had a run up.

    Conversely I tend to see the accredited investors making 500k, 1 million a year at their jobs or business looking more at long term equity growth. They already have tons of cash so just more taxes to pay.

    There are syndicators that have the business model of portfolios and taking fees where they hope over volume they average out into the positive over time with the losers, the break even, and the winners. Personally I like value add properties where there is strong upside as a sponsor. I don't like thin deals because any blip in the markets could ruin the pro-forma projections.  

    Multifamily isn't this darling that people think it is. It can be cyclical just like any other asset class. I saw in the last downturn what happened with multifamily. New projects never started, projects in process halted and became fractured and stagnant causing all kinds of issues for the tenants already there. ( At that time I saw regular lease up buildings being converted from some rentals to condo's they could sell for people to own.) 

    Existing multifamily flatlines for rents and landlords ran half off rent specials, waiver of security deposit, reduced rents, etc. just to try to maintain occupancy and keep vacancy down so the debt could be serviced. Additionally if rents flatline or do not keep pace with inflation the cash flow dollar is reduced and if property taxes rise, insurance policies, etc. the tenant does not pay for or reimburse typically like a retail property so that can further eat into projected returns. In a downturn class A topline renters start moving to cheaper properties like older class A or B type properties that still have amenities but cost per month Is much lower.

    Lot's of lenders right now will almost do anything to lend on multifamily. In a lot of ways it's topped out where reward ratio is low and risk factor is high. As for accredited investors and their individual demands a syndicator running a business model really doesn't have time for that. They can't individualize every single deal and have an investor take 20 hours of their time just so that investor gets comfortable investing 50k in a deal or 100k. To run a systematized business you have to create a model that stays the same over and over and you widen your funnel for passive investors that meet that criteria and accept the plan.

    It's just like my commercial real estate brokerage business. If I had to readapt every single deal to the way that particular investor wanted to do things versus a system that stays the same it would be hard to run an efficient and profitable business.  

    Very true.  I am just laying down the pros and cons of the deal.  No characters were harmed in my breakdown.  As for marketing going up and down, yes, but that happens in nearly every business.  I am just saying, during those lean times, the investors income for their GC/CC investment will be low to nil.  It's enivitable, and it stated a few times in the prospectus; just not in the Youtube videos.

  • London · Member since 2019 · 722 posts · 386 votes
    7y

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @John Corey:

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

    Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

    Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

  • London · Member since 2019 · 722 posts · 386 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

    Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

    Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

     None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

    The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

    As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

    You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

    As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

    Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

    We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

    If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @John Corey:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

    Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

    Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

     None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

    The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

    As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

    You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

    As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

    Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

    We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

    If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

    I think if you do some research on the companies I've mentioned, you will see they are rated securities.  Nonetheless, it's a mute point.  I wouldn't expect a person who worked on the offering to consider an objection.  Again, nothing against Mr. Cardone, but the offering is not for the faint at heart.  There is no emotion in this, just facts; at least from my end.

  • Andrew HoganPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2016 · 559 posts · 463 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @John Corey:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

    Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

    Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

     None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

    The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

    As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

    You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

    As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

    Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

    We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

    If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

    Well put John. Hopefully, the last market correction taught us that a recession doesn't care the slightest bit about bonds and stock market ratings. Somebody cannot say that a real estate investment is "crap" because it's not rated. That's like saying that apples are bad when they're not orange. Buying actual real estate or partnering with someone is different than buying a piece of paper that says real estate on it.

    I think a sponsor's track record and their team's ability to execute is a good way to "rate" them in this world. 

    You're probably right that the majority of folks on BP are looking for active rather than passive investments. It's a great place to become educated. 

    For those few that are high-income earners and have too high of an opportunity cost, there are a wealth of sponsors on BP that they can underwrite before passively investing.

  • Rental Property Investor · Toronto, Canada · Member since 2012 · 102 posts · 95 votes
    7y

    @Calvin T. FYI Actually GC has mentioned that cash flow during lean times will be low to nil. Whether the faithful hear it is a different story, but he has mentioned it a few times

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Hogan:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

    Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

    Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

     None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

    The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

    As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

    You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

    As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

    Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

    We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

    If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

    Well put John. Hopefully, the last market correction taught us that a recession doesn't care the slightest bit about bonds and stock market ratings. Somebody cannot say that a real estate investment is "crap" because it's not rated. That's like saying that apples are bad when they're not orange. Buying actual real estate or partnering with someone is different than buying a piece of paper that says real estate on it.

    I think a sponsor's track record and their team's ability to execute is a good way to "rate" them in this world. 

    You're probably right that the majority of folks on BP are looking for active rather than passive investments. It's a great place to become educated. 

    For those few that are high-income earners and have too high of an opportunity cost, there are a wealth of sponsors on BP that they can underwrite before passively investing.

     My friend, I probably have 30 to 40 years on you and Mr. Corey.  Both you have no idea what "lean times" are.  I guess, when the next real estate adjustment hits we can all come back to revisit this thread and see who's arguments came to fruition.  Me going on 40+ years in this business, I tend to know what's going to happen.  Same situation, just different players.  

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jim Chuong:

    @Calvin T. FYI Actually GC has mentioned that cash flow during lean times will be low to nil. Whether the faithful hear it is a different story, but he has mentioned it a few times

     Yes, he does mention it in the prospectus and has mentioned it in his earlier videos.  I am not sure how many others noticed it though.

  • Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

    Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

    Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

     None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

    The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

    As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

    You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

    As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

    Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

    We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

    If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

    I think if you do some research on the companies I've mentioned, you will see they are rated securities.  Nonetheless, it's a mute point.  I wouldn't expect a person who worked on the offering to consider an objection.  Again, nothing against Mr. Cardone, but the offering is not for the faint at heart.  There is no emotion in this, just facts; at least from my end.

    Are you saying that Mr, Corey has worked on Cardone Capital's offerings?

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

    Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

    Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

     None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

    The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

    As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

    You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

    As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

    Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

    We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

    If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

    I think if you do some research on the companies I've mentioned, you will see they are rated securities.  Nonetheless, it's a mute point.  I wouldn't expect a person who worked on the offering to consider an objection.  Again, nothing against Mr. Cardone, but the offering is not for the faint at heart.  There is no emotion in this, just facts; at least from my end.

    Are you saying that Mr, Corey has worked on Cardone Capital's offerings?

     Only Mr. Corey can confirm on that.  It seems that's how it was portrayed in his earlier posts, so I cannot confirm or deny.  Only Mr. Corey can. 

  • London · Member since 2019 · 722 posts · 386 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

    Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

    Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

     None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

    The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

    As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

    You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

    As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

    Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

    We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

    If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

    I think if you do some research on the companies I've mentioned, you will see they are rated securities.  Nonetheless, it's a mute point.  I wouldn't expect a person who worked on the offering to consider an objection.  Again, nothing against Mr. Cardone, but the offering is not for the faint at heart.  There is no emotion in this, just facts; at least from my end.

    Are you saying that Mr, Corey has worked on Cardone Capital's offerings?

    If he did, it would be a faulty assumption. I have not worked on any Cardone offering. And I never suggested I did.

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @John Corey:
    Originally posted by @Andrey Y.:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:
    Originally posted by @John Corey:

    @Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

    Re-read some of your first posts in this thread. 

    The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

    You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

    Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

    Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

    Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

     None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

    The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

    As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

    You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

    As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

    Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

    We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

    If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

    I think if you do some research on the companies I've mentioned, you will see they are rated securities.  Nonetheless, it's a mute point.  I wouldn't expect a person who worked on the offering to consider an objection.  Again, nothing against Mr. Cardone, but the offering is not for the faint at heart.  There is no emotion in this, just facts; at least from my end.

    Are you saying that Mr, Corey has worked on Cardone Capital's offerings?

    If he did, it would be a faulty assumption. I have not worked on any Cardone offering. And I never suggested I did.

  • Specialist · Katy, TX · Member since 2010 · 28 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    For anyone interested in Grant Cardone / Cardone Capital, I highly recommend watching his interview with Jordan Belfort.  His approach to picking deals is just absurd, in my opinion, but I think this is a must-watch before any investor gets in bed with him:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ls3KDa7PMY

  • Developer · New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 812 posts · 718 votes
    6y

    You can also hire him for a shout out here - https://www.cameo.com/grantcardone

    Good lord...

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Calvin Thomas:

    You can also hire him for a shout out here - https://www.cameo.com/grantcardone

    Good lord...

    that’s insane. People pay him $250 to record a 20 second video where he says “hello” to you? Borderline creepy 

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