Grant Cardone / Cardone Capital

166 Replies

Originally posted by @Adam Mazhar :

@Dennis M. I want a higher return but almost all syndicators I talked to offer around that much for accredited investors, whether it is apartments or mobile home parks, etc. but you share in the upside also, I am looking for infinite returns once I get all my invested capital out, that was the main selling point for me. My other option was to go out on my own and buy a 20 to 40 unit complex which would have resulted in similar ROI and much more time consuming activities to run it myself or through property manager which would not scale as fast as a 400 unit complex. May be the next one I invest in will be on my own once I learn some more about the intricacies of this field.


I don't know which syndicators you have talked to, but all the ones I have seen offer higher projected returns than GC is offering, and have more experience than he does. and some of them have refinancing in mind when they start out...

 

Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Afterall, it's not like he's been around prior to the crash.  

He started with RE about 25 years ago. I am assuming you are referring to the crash near 2008. So, Cardone was investing prior. 

Sort of similar to you in some sense. You were around for about 40 years. Until this thread, I had not heard of you. Without doing any DD to check your track record, I take it at face value and figure you have been operating for 40 years. That you would have seen ups and down. Unless I was looking to invest with you, I would not dig further. 

As Cardone is making a public offer to retail investors (Reg A), there is a lot of information out there. Registrations with the SEC and other info. He shares more info that many other RE investors.

How well any one project goes in the future is to be seen. Still, if he has been operating RE investments for 25 or more years, something is working. The past is not a predictor of the future no matter how many years the past has run.

Having other businesses that had bad patches is something worth checking if someone was investing. That said, I come from Silicon Valley and investment banking besides being a RE investor. Stuff happens. You dust yourself off and fix it. If there were no failed businesses we would not be living in the USA.

Originally posted by @John Corey :
Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Afterall, it's not like he's been around prior to the crash.  

He started with RE about 25 years ago. I am assuming you are referring to the crash near 2008. So, Cardone was investing prior. 

Sort of similar to you in some sense. You were around for about 40 years. Until this thread, I had not heard of you. Without doing any DD to check your track record, I take it at face value and figure you have been operating for 40 years. That you would have seen ups and down. Unless I was looking to invest with you, I would not dig further. 

As Cardone is making a public offer to retail investors (Reg A), there is a lot of information out there. Registrations with the SEC and other info. He shares more info that many other RE investors.

How well any one project goes in the future is to be seen. Still, if he has been operating RE investments for 25 or more years, something is working. The past is not a predictor of the future no matter how many years the past has run.

Having other businesses that had bad patches is something worth checking if someone was investing. That said, I come from Silicon Valley and investment banking besides being a RE investor. Stuff happens. You dust yourself off and fix it. If there were no failed businesses we would not be living in the USA.

Perhaps, but there are a few differences here.

1) My ego is no where in the realm of his. 

2) I am not raising capital from outside investors

3) I am not promising dreams that, for most, are highly unrealistic and unobtainable without hard work, common sense, dedication and a little bit of luck.

4) The propspectus is very shady. Two, it's highly speculative (junk status) and is not rated by a 3rd party.  The only two parties that always make money are CC and legal team (you?).

5) Come to New York. I visit the  Bigger Pockets events and meetups from time to time. Again, I do not need to show my success or boast about my lifestyle.  Some people do, and that is perfectly fine.  I am an old man and I like my privacy.  However, happy to advise others; should they want to listen.

6) We are not alike; me and Mr. Cardone. Completely different.  I started in the 70s, according to what research I've done, he's not been that successful (by his own accord) in "Hollywood" or in the business world until he got into real estate at the end of the crash. I believe he had a drug problem in the 70's or 80s which he admitted.  He also admitted that most of his businesses have failed prior to his real estate empire.  I believe he or his prior businesses had also circled bankruptcy and, again by his own accord, undercapitalized and mismanaged. Again, mistakes happen, but his track record doesn't impress me.  Me? I do not have to impress anyone, I do not need to raise money from outside investors.  

Again, if it's all 100% legit, I'm cool with it.  However, the guy has little creditibility in terms of a track record for my taste.  He's a good showman, and he lives the Ric Flair lifestyle (didn't he go bankrupt too), but the prospectus has more red flags the a Red China communist day parade. I just hope that when the party ends, the little guys who are investing with him do not end upstream without a paddle. I broke down my issues with the prospectus, and that was not all of them.  There are about 2 dozen more.  But hey, what do I know...  I am not a lawyer.

I enjoy watching Ben Mallah and GC. I get different things from each. I learn from everyone, but I do my own deals. My background is in sales/marketing and there’s a reason why Fortune500 companies have insane marketing budgets and armies of sales staff. Largest share of voice/mind wins. Always. Not even close.

Ben Mallah and GC are playing the game in different ways, but both can teach something to everybody on BP, regardless of how we feel about them

Originally posted by @Jim Chuong :

I enjoy watching Ben Mallah and GC. I get different things from each. I learn from everyone, but I do my own deals. My background is in sales/marketing and there’s a reason why Fortune500 companies have insane marketing budgets and armies of sales staff. Largest share of voice/mind wins. Always. Not even close.

Ben Mallah and GC are playing the game in different ways, but both can teach something to everybody on BP, regardless of how we feel about them

Very true, but one has a proven track record an is not selling to outside mom and pop investors, the other is.  I have no dog in this race.  I am just laying down the facts and to allow everyone to make their own decisions.   

BTW, Ben Mallah is good people.  Straight and to the point.  Hard to find a guy like that these days.

@Calvin T. thanks for kicking off this thread. it stirred up some interesting discussion!

Cardone Capital came up in conversation recently with some of our limited partners. They had recently invested in one of his funds. The pro forma on the fund looked attractive. Not a 'bad' deal, by any means.

One thing the LPs did mention is that it the experience felt impersonal and they were looking for more of an open dialogue with their deal sponsors (i've heard this type of feedback from investors who switch from crowdfunding sites).

They appreciated the personal touch of working with GP teams that they can actually interact with in a meaningful way. 

On a personal note, Grant Cardone and I could not be more different, stylistically. That said, the contributions that Cardone has made to the worlds of sales and real estate are immense. Net-net, I truly believe that Grant Cardone has GIVEN more to this world than he has TAKEN from it. Wouldn't necessarily want to spend time in a conversation with him, but I appreciate his contributions.

Being on BP podcast doesn’t make you legit. Case in point, Clayton Morris has been interviewed as well.

I haven’t read his PPM but if he’s leveraging up 90% that’s a bad sign.

Originally posted by @Spencer Hilligoss :

@Calvin T. thanks for kicking off this thread. it stirred up some interesting discussion!

Cardone Capital came up in conversation recently with some of our limited partners. They had recently invested in one of his funds. The pro forma on the fund looked attractive. Not a 'bad' deal, by any means.

One thing the LPs did mention is that it the experience felt impersonal and they were looking for more of an open dialogue with their deal sponsors (i've heard this type of feedback from investors who switch from crowdfunding sites).

They appreciated the personal touch of working with GP teams that they can actually interact with in a meaningful way. 

On a personal note, Grant Cardone and I could not be more different, stylistically. That said, the contributions that Cardone has made to the worlds of sales and real estate are immense. Net-net, I truly believe that Grant Cardone has GIVEN more to this world than he has TAKEN from it. Wouldn't necessarily want to spend time in a conversation with him, but I appreciate his contributions.

We've had a conversation with his team as mentioned earlier in this thread.  I wasn't impressed.  They offered to setup a time to discuss in more detail with Mr. Cardone; I passed.  The #'s don't work for an experienced investor.  However, if it works for you, more power to you. Again, when things are good, they are very very good.  However, when they turn bad, we'll see how things look when credit dries up.  The man refs constantly... It just smells bad..  Sorry.  

 

Originally posted by @Trenton Tabor:

Alot of people here are repeating that Grant Cardone is legit because they heard Grant cardone is legit as opposed to having direct experience with him. I think he is a phony. He seems to have bad morals, high greed and overall low self esteem. There was an interview where he said he liked his real estate more than his daughter because his real estate will never leave him.  Hes a loser and not worth doing business with.

He's very popular here, and that' fine.  Yea, he's flashy and a big personality, but it's all to boost up his brand.  I get that, but he goes over the top.  It's great for social gathering, but in business, you do not want that type of attention and such.  Just my opinion, I know I am in the minority, but that's okay.

Grant Cardone only cares about the cash. He does not come across as someone that uses 1031...hence why he hypes up the exit. He goes after grade A only.

Ben Mallah is a guy that I respect. He doesn't go out and beg for money. In fact he will turn you away. He looks for value add. Does a lot of good work for the communities. Built everything with 1031 and been at it for 30 years? 

Cardone goes out and takes expensive vacations that he calls working trips for taxes, and spends money on useless stuff. Ben Mallah tells you not to buy new even when it's a Rolls Royce.

Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Originally posted by @Trenton Tabor:

Alot of people here are repeating that Grant Cardone is legit because they heard Grant cardone is legit as opposed to having direct experience with him. I think he is a phony. He seems to have bad morals, high greed and overall low self esteem. There was an interview where he said he liked his real estate more than his daughter because his real estate will never leave him.  Hes a loser and not worth doing business with.

He's very popular here, and that' fine.  Yea, he's flashy and a big personality, but it's all to boost up his brand.  I get that, but he goes over the top.  It's great for social gathering, but in business, you do not want that type of attention and such.  Just my opinion, I know I am in the minority, but that's okay.

 It's a big turn off when he tries to beg military veterans and pro athletes to spend money in his fund.

Originally posted by @Jonathon Weber :
Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Originally posted by @Trenton Tabor:

Alot of people here are repeating that Grant Cardone is legit because they heard Grant cardone is legit as opposed to having direct experience with him. I think he is a phony. He seems to have bad morals, high greed and overall low self esteem. There was an interview where he said he liked his real estate more than his daughter because his real estate will never leave him.  Hes a loser and not worth doing business with.

He's very popular here, and that' fine.  Yea, he's flashy and a big personality, but it's all to boost up his brand.  I get that, but he goes over the top.  It's great for social gathering, but in business, you do not want that type of attention and such.  Just my opinion, I know I am in the minority, but that's okay.

 It's a big turn off when he tries to beg military veterans and pro athletes to spend money in his fund.

He needs to raise cheap capital, that's on of the ways he's doing it.  I just heard he's now going to be opening up to nonaccredited investors.  I.E. people who have less than a 50k net worth.  This is going to be a trainwreck.

Please no character assassinations or attacks on the forums. I tend to agree that syndicating to unsophisticated and non-accredited investors has lots of liability and risk for those investors who tend to not fully understand these types of investments.

It's a decision various syndicators evaluate to see if they want to do or not.

Different investors can have different goals when investing in syndicates. Some who are just over accredited investor status usually need that money to work real hard from a  cash flow perspective when investing. This can be especially true if they make under 100k a year at job or business and not much annual income (excess cash). Their net worth gain instead was tied to some big event where they bought bottom cycle and have had a run up.

Conversely I tend to see the accredited investors making 500k, 1 million a year at their jobs or business looking more at long term equity growth. They already have tons of cash so just more taxes to pay.

There are syndicators that have the business model of portfolios and taking fees where they hope over volume they average out into the positive over time with the losers, the break even, and the winners. Personally I like value add properties where there is strong upside as a sponsor. I don't like thin deals because any blip in the markets could ruin the pro-forma projections.  

Multifamily isn't this darling that people think it is. It can be cyclical just like any other asset class. I saw in the last downturn what happened with multifamily. New projects never started, projects in process halted and became fractured and stagnant causing all kinds of issues for the tenants already there. ( At that time I saw regular lease up buildings being converted from some rentals to condo's they could sell for people to own.) 

Existing multifamily flatlines for rents and landlords ran half off rent specials, waiver of security deposit, reduced rents, etc. just to try to maintain occupancy and keep vacancy down so the debt could be serviced. Additionally if rents flatline or do not keep pace with inflation the cash flow dollar is reduced and if property taxes rise, insurance policies, etc. the tenant does not pay for or reimburse typically like a retail property so that can further eat into projected returns. In a downturn class A topline renters start moving to cheaper properties like older class A or B type properties that still have amenities but cost per month Is much lower.

Lot's of lenders right now will almost do anything to lend on multifamily. In a lot of ways it's topped out where reward ratio is low and risk factor is high. As for accredited investors and their individual demands a syndicator running a business model really doesn't have time for that. They can't individualize every single deal and have an investor take 20 hours of their time just so that investor gets comfortable investing 50k in a deal or 100k. To run a systematized business you have to create a model that stays the same over and over and you widen your funnel for passive investors that meet that criteria and accept the plan.

It's just like my commercial real estate brokerage business. If I had to readapt every single deal to the way that particular investor wanted to do things versus a system that stays the same it would be hard to run an efficient and profitable business.  

Originally posted by @Joel Owens :

Please no character assassinations or attacks on the forums. I tend to agree that syndicating to unsophisticated and non-accredited investors has lots of liability and risk for those investors who tend to not fully understand these types of investments.

It's a decision various syndicators evaluate to see if they want to do or not.

Different investors can have different goals when investing in syndicates. Some who are just over accredited investor status usually need that money to work real hard from a  cash flow perspective when investing. This can be especially true if they make under 100k a year at job or business and not much annual income (excess cash). Their net worth gain instead was tied to some big event where they bought bottom cycle and have had a run up.

Conversely I tend to see the accredited investors making 500k, 1 million a year at their jobs or business looking more at long term equity growth. They already have tons of cash so just more taxes to pay.

There are syndicators that have the business model of portfolios and taking fees where they hope over volume they average out into the positive over time with the losers, the break even, and the winners. Personally I like value add properties where there is strong upside as a sponsor. I don't like thin deals because any blip in the markets could ruin the pro-forma projections.  

Multifamily isn't this darling that people think it is. It can be cyclical just like any other asset class. I saw in the last downturn what happened with multifamily. New projects never started, projects in process halted and became fractured and stagnant causing all kinds of issues for the tenants already there. ( At that time I saw regular lease up buildings being converted from some rentals to condo's they could sell for people to own.) 

Existing multifamily flatlines for rents and landlords ran half off rent specials, waiver of security deposit, reduced rents, etc. just to try to maintain occupancy and keep vacancy down so the debt could be serviced. Additionally if rents flatline or do not keep pace with inflation the cash flow dollar is reduced and if property taxes rise, insurance policies, etc. the tenant does not pay for or reimburse typically like a retail property so that can further eat into projected returns. In a downturn class A topline renters start moving to cheaper properties like older class A or B type properties that still have amenities but cost per month Is much lower.

Lot's of lenders right now will almost do anything to lend on multifamily. In a lot of ways it's topped out where reward ratio is low and risk factor is high. As for accredited investors and their individual demands a syndicator running a business model really doesn't have time for that. They can't individualize every single deal and have an investor take 20 hours of their time just so that investor gets comfortable investing 50k in a deal or 100k. To run a systematized business you have to create a model that stays the same over and over and you widen your funnel for passive investors that meet that criteria and accept the plan.

It's just like my commercial real estate brokerage business. If I had to readapt every single deal to the way that particular investor wanted to do things versus a system that stays the same it would be hard to run an efficient and profitable business.  

Very true.  I am just laying down the pros and cons of the deal.  No characters were harmed in my breakdown.  As for marketing going up and down, yes, but that happens in nearly every business.  I am just saying, during those lean times, the investors income for their GC/CC investment will be low to nil.  It's enivitable, and it stated a few times in the prospectus; just not in the Youtube videos.

 

@Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

Originally posted by @John Corey :

@Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Originally posted by @John Corey:

@Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

 None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

Originally posted by @John Corey :
Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Originally posted by @John Corey:

@Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

 None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

I think if you do some research on the companies I've mentioned, you will see they are rated securities.  Nonetheless, it's a mute point.  I wouldn't expect a person who worked on the offering to consider an objection.  Again, nothing against Mr. Cardone, but the offering is not for the faint at heart.  There is no emotion in this, just facts; at least from my end.

 

Originally posted by @John Corey :
Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Originally posted by @John Corey:

@Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

 None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

Well put John. Hopefully, the last market correction taught us that a recession doesn't care the slightest bit about bonds and stock market ratings. Somebody cannot say that a real estate investment is "crap" because it's not rated. That's like saying that apples are bad when they're not orange. Buying actual real estate or partnering with someone is different than buying a piece of paper that says real estate on it.

I think a sponsor's track record and their team's ability to execute is a good way to "rate" them in this world. 

You're probably right that the majority of folks on BP are looking for active rather than passive investments. It's a great place to become educated. 

For those few that are high-income earners and have too high of an opportunity cost, there are a wealth of sponsors on BP that they can underwrite before passively investing.

@Calvin T. FYI Actually GC has mentioned that cash flow during lean times will be low to nil. Whether the faithful hear it is a different story, but he has mentioned it a few times

Originally posted by @Andrew Hogan :
Originally posted by @John Corey:
Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Originally posted by @John Corey:

@Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

 None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

Well put John. Hopefully, the last market correction taught us that a recession doesn't care the slightest bit about bonds and stock market ratings. Somebody cannot say that a real estate investment is "crap" because it's not rated. That's like saying that apples are bad when they're not orange. Buying actual real estate or partnering with someone is different than buying a piece of paper that says real estate on it.

I think a sponsor's track record and their team's ability to execute is a good way to "rate" them in this world. 

You're probably right that the majority of folks on BP are looking for active rather than passive investments. It's a great place to become educated. 

For those few that are high-income earners and have too high of an opportunity cost, there are a wealth of sponsors on BP that they can underwrite before passively investing.

 My friend, I probably have 30 to 40 years on you and Mr. Corey.  Both you have no idea what "lean times" are.  I guess, when the next real estate adjustment hits we can all come back to revisit this thread and see who's arguments came to fruition.  Me going on 40+ years in this business, I tend to know what's going to happen.  Same situation, just different players.  

Originally posted by @Jim Chuong :

@Calvin T. FYI Actually GC has mentioned that cash flow during lean times will be low to nil. Whether the faithful hear it is a different story, but he has mentioned it a few times

 Yes, he does mention it in the prospectus and has mentioned it in his earlier videos.  I am not sure how many others noticed it though.

Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Originally posted by @John Corey:
Originally posted by @Calvin T.:
Originally posted by @John Corey:

@Calvin T. There is a Reg A filing. Non-accredited are fine under Reg A

The registrations comply with the SEC requirements. Nothing is being hidden unless you are claiming fraud.

You referenced [credit] ratings or other designations. None would apply with a exempt registration or private placement. That would be comparing apples to carrots.

Competence is different and mostly a matter of opinion. Until Lehman failed, it was highly rated. Cardone is not everyone’s cup of tea. The beauty of the market is anyone is able to launch something and try something different.

Yes, I am aware of the losened restrictions passed.  Say what you wish, but a third party review from S & P, Moodys or similiar would be preferred.  It's an unrated untraded security.  Similiar to those Apple REITS. (I believe David Lerner had some liquidity issues too during the correction). Mr. Corey, you may be very well versed in securities law, but I am very familiar with it as well.  Cardone Capital is an unrated security which, in Wall Street terms, is junk and highly speculative (as stated in his prospectus).  You cannot even try to compare Cardone Capital to a Blackstone, Blackrock, Pubic Storage, Simon or any other real estate company/division which are regulated and rated by third parties to Cardone Capital.  Sorry, you may pull the wool over naive thirsty investors, but not mine.  Cardone Capital is so highly leveraged (again, as stated in his prospectus) that his company would be considered a OTCBB or penny stock. 

Not my first rodeo friend. I am well versed in private placements and raising of capital.  You learn these things being around for a few decades in the real estate business.

 None of the syndications discussed or referred to on BP, which I have seen, are rated securities.  If a PPM qualified to be advertised to the public, then people might discuss it. Still, the public registration under Reg A does not imply or require the instrument to be a bond with a credit rating. 

The PPM sector has raised something like $1T and they are definitely unrated securities. Always have been and nothing new there.

As to your language. This has nothing to do with wool over anyone's eyes. When logic fails, bring on emotion?

You brought up ratings and independent reviews by an agency. That tangent that makes no sense given how the market work.Bonds and PPM are not the same and you know they are not. To discuss rated bonds is a distraction at best.

As this platform is BP, bonds are not the focus. Bond characteristics, bond returns and similar are not the focus here.

Many or most BP members are close to you; A hands-on real estate investor/operator looking to make above average gains through direct, smart management. A minority of the folks here are looking for passive investments. Some want to move to being a GP and others just want passive because they are busy. Still, there is no requirement for the exempt security world to follow the bond marketplace when the two are not the same.

We are both old so age is not a trump card. Both have been in RE for decades. Size or age does not matter here. What Cardone's registration says or does not say is interesting. PPMs are interesting. 

If people want bonds and bond ratings, BP is the wrong place to have a useful discussion.

I think if you do some research on the companies I've mentioned, you will see they are rated securities.  Nonetheless, it's a mute point.  I wouldn't expect a person who worked on the offering to consider an objection.  Again, nothing against Mr. Cardone, but the offering is not for the faint at heart.  There is no emotion in this, just facts; at least from my end.

Are you saying that Mr, Corey has worked on Cardone Capital's offerings?