How bad is my tenant? Should I be doing more for her?

Multi-Family and Apartment Investing
6yFollow

How bad is my tenant? Should I be doing more for her?

Resa D.
Rental Property Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 3 votes

I have a 2 story house that I have divided into 4 units. Unit A - long term tenants unfurnished Unit B, C, D - furnished rooms with a shared kitchen - renting to short term professionals.

First off, I have had great tenants in Unit A for 10 months. No issues at all. I have my furnished units rented to traveling nurses. I found my first nursing tenant dead in her room on her checkout day. Thankfully her sister was there and able to help expedite that situation.

My second nursing tenant is my problem tenant. Asked me why I have a house keeper come every week, some hooks would be nice in her bedroom, oh! And some shelves too...

ok. No problem, I’ll work on that. Then I text her that my electrician is coming and she says she “sure wishes” he could put some shelves in her closet... So she wants to convert from her short term lease to a long term lease. I lay out the new lease terms:

Rent $550 (she was at a promotion rate of $500 for 2 months - regular price $600/mo)

Full security deposit of $600

Terminate lease for $275 with 30 days notice

6mo lease

I don’t hear back from her but do see a Facebook post from her about California landlords being greedy, she can’t get a break etc.

I then decide that I don’t want to do long term rentals and give her 30day notice to vacate. No she is accusing me of not being Christian and for turning off the internet (city wide outage.)

Is there something I’m doing wrong or is this a normal horror tenant?

0Reply
80 views

Most Popular Reply

Dave Rav
Summerville, SC · Member since 2018 · 588 posts · 252 votes
6y

@Resa David

I've been an REI x13 years. Your tenant sounds like a problem child. Someone who will likely never be happy, and someone who gets off on giving others a hard time.

I mean come on, who asks if an electrician can put in shelves?? She is being unreasonable and difficult.

My advice - don't renew the lease.

12Reply
See this reply in the discussion

36 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Dave Rav
    Summerville, SC · Member since 2018 · 588 posts · 252 votes
    6y

    @Resa David

    I've been an REI x13 years. Your tenant sounds like a problem child. Someone who will likely never be happy, and someone who gets off on giving others a hard time.

    I mean come on, who asks if an electrician can put in shelves?? She is being unreasonable and difficult.

    My advice - don't renew the lease.

    12Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    My guess is she's entitled or she's young and new to renting.  You are following the terms of your lease, she's an adult and if she wants some shelves, she can buy some free standing ones herself.

    3Reply
  • Resa D.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Dave Rav

    Thank you, that’s what I am working on. She says I am evicting her for no cause.

    1Reply
  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y

    @Resa D. "you are not being Christian" Hilarious!! You are better off without her and the sooner the better!

    3Reply
  • Jill F.
    Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Heathen!!! I don't think there is any commandment about installing shelving ;)
    For small upgrades low cost stuff like that, I'd usually tell them I can "probably" do it but it will have to be when my guy is out anyway and has time...if they want it in a hurry the cost will be $xxx. However, bad mouthing my business especially online is something I don't tolerate. I'd non-renew.

    6Reply
  • John Warren
    Real Estate Broker · 3412 S. Harlem Avenue Riverside, IL 60546 · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Resa D. this lady is not a good tenant. Period. I do not like complainers, and I do not like tenants who constantly have minor, nuisance upgrade requests. I have found that they typically do not honor their leases or treat me right, and this is one of the red flags I look for when screening tenants. If they mention bad land lords in the past, issues with their units, etc, then I run! 

    6Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @Resa D. I have been doing this 15 years and nothing you described is a horror story. Annoying maybe. I have had fires, I have been physically threatened, I have had wife beaters smash windows out, flooding, tornadoes, evictions for non payment - like real stressful problems. Still I am self aware enough to know worse things happen to landlords. 

    Now let me offer some helpful advice...

    1. Rent prices are always higher for short term tenancy. She could have been surprised when you told her staying longer would cost her more - it is really illogical and not standard practice. Your short term rate should be higher and if someone wants to stay long term at the short term rate, who cares? Less turn over reduces your costs.

    2. You should have a process for upgrade requests. I would handle it one of three ways: First option is to say no, I am sorry we do not plan to make that upgrade. Second option is say yes we can do that, but you need to pay for it, the cost is $XX. Third option is just pay a handyman for two hours work to put up some shelves and hooks. Assuming they add value for future tenants, I would just spend the $100 and not worry about it.

    3. Stop caring what other people think. You are easily offended by silly comments. Many of the Christians at church on Sunday are deviants, liars, greedy, judgmental or any number of non-Christian things. But doesn't the Christian faith believe we are all sinners in need of salvation? And doesn't the faith teach that only one person can judge us - hint it is not a traveling nurse. More importantly your religious beliefs are private and of no issue to anyone but yourself. 

    4. This does appear to be a no cause eviction. If it goes to court are you going to tell them you didn't like her attitude? None of the things you mentioned are cause for eviction. You are in CA which is one of the most tenant friendly states. If she is paying rent and taking care of the property, patch this up and move on.

    12Reply
  • Resa D.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Joe Splitrock

    Thank you! I will consider everything you are saying. My question for you is: is it a no cause eviction if I choose not to extend the lease? My understanding is that I have to give the 30 day notice if I don’t want to extend...

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Resa D.:

    @Joe Splitrock

    Thank you! I will consider everything you are saying. My question for you is: is it a no cause eviction if I choose not to extend the lease? My understanding is that I have to give the 30 day notice if I don’t want to extend...

     You can choose to not extend month to month agreements and you can give a 30 day notice. (It only becomes an eviction if she doesn't leave and you have to take her to court). It is just an abnormal situation, because you offered her a long term lease before you gave her 30 day notice. Normally if you were not renewing, you wouldn't give the tenant an offer to renew or they would be options. Keep in mind if the property is in CA, Governor Newsom extended the eviction ban in CA to July 28th.

    My guess is she will just leave as requested. From what you described, she doesn't sound like a bad person. She wasn't happy with the rent increase or being asked to leave, but if you look at it from her perspective both of those things kind of suck. Most people leave when asked to leave.

    One other suggestion that I think will help in the future. Always have a deadline for the decision and a default of what happens with non response. For example:

    I am happy to present the following lease options. Please respond by May 30th or this will be considered non-renewal:

    1. Do nothing and your tenancy ends June 30th.

    2. Choose to renew month to month at $650 per month.

    3. Choose to agree to a one year lease at $625 per month.

    You can see with these choices it is not YOU giving her 30 day notice. It is her choice. 

    Thanks for taking my harsh response with a positive attitude. This is just business and at the end of the day, you want to make money and have tenants take care of your property - that is it.

    11Reply
  • Braden C.
    Real Estate Investor · FL · Member since 2011 · 586 posts · 360 votes
    6y

    As a wise man once said... Hasta la vista, baby.

    2Reply
  • Resa D.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Joe Splitrock

    Thank you again! I am waiting for a call back from my lawyer and will see about adding clauses like that to my lease. I really appreciate the advice. I’m 10 months into landlording and I’m learning a lot!!! 😝 
    I live on the property in a back house so I hope that gives me a little more leverage if it comes to an actual eviction. And, I won’t be purchasing any more property in CA. Only out of state. 

    Thank you everyone for the advice! It helps to have people that don’t know me give their opinions!

    1Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    @Resa D. I have been doing this 15 years and nothing you described is a horror story. Annoying maybe. I have had fires, I have been physically threatened, I have had wife beaters smash windows out, flooding, tornadoes, evictions for non payment - like real stressful problems. Still I am self aware enough to know worse things happen to landlords. 

    Now let me offer some helpful advice...

    1. Rent prices are always higher for short term tenancy. She could have been surprised when you told her staying longer would cost her more - it is really illogical and not standard practice. Your short term rate should be higher and if someone wants to stay long term at the short term rate, who cares? Less turn over reduces your costs.

    2. You should have a process for upgrade requests. I would handle it one of three ways: First option is to say no, I am sorry we do not plan to make that upgrade. Second option is say yes we can do that, but you need to pay for it, the cost is $XX. Third option is just pay a handyman for two hours work to put up some shelves and hooks. Assuming they add value for future tenants, I would just spend the $100 and not worry about it.

    3. Stop caring what other people think. You are easily offended by silly comments. Many of the Christians at church on Sunday are deviants, liars, greedy, judgmental or any number of non-Christian things. But doesn't the Christian faith believe we are all sinners in need of salvation? And doesn't the faith teach that only one person can judge us - hint it is not a traveling nurse. More importantly your religious beliefs are private and of no issue to anyone but yourself. 

    4. This does appear to be a no cause eviction. If it goes to court are you going to tell them you didn't like her attitude? None of the things you mentioned are cause for eviction. You are in CA which is one of the most tenant friendly states. If she is paying rent and taking care of the property, patch this up and move on.

     >This does appear to be a no cause eviction.

    This is not an eviction. The tenant is on a short term lease. In addition, even if it were a long term lease that was month to month on a SFR in Riverside, there is no tenant protection preventing proper notice to vacate for any reason that the LL desires. With the recent state wide rent control (started Jan 1, 2020) on multi-family units, you now need cause to evict a tenant in older multi-family properties. This does not apply to SFH and it does not apply to STRs. LL can simply give this tenant a notice to vacate (not an eviction - lease is up).

    The short term lease has expired.  In this case the LL can choose to rent to another tenant, keep the unit vacant, turn it into storage, whatever they want to do with it.  They are the property owner.

    1Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Resa D.:

    @Joe Splitrock

    Thank you! I will consider everything you are saying. My question for you is: is it a no cause eviction if I choose not to extend the lease? My understanding is that I have to give the 30 day notice if I don’t want to extend...

     You can choose to not extend month to month agreements and you can give a 30 day notice. (It only becomes an eviction if she doesn't leave and you have to take her to court). It is just an abnormal situation, because you offered her a long term lease before you gave her 30 day notice. Normally if you were not renewing, you wouldn't give the tenant an offer to renew or they would be options. Keep in mind if the property is in CA, Governor Newsom extended the eviction ban in CA to July 28th.

    My guess is she will just leave as requested. From what you described, she doesn't sound like a bad person. She wasn't happy with the rent increase or being asked to leave, but if you look at it from her perspective both of those things kind of suck. Most people leave when asked to leave.

    One other suggestion that I think will help in the future. Always have a deadline for the decision and a default of what happens with non response. For example:

    I am happy to present the following lease options. Please respond by May 30th or this will be considered non-renewal:

    1. Do nothing and your tenancy ends June 30th.

    2. Choose to renew month to month at $650 per month.

    3. Choose to agree to a one year lease at $625 per month.

    You can see with these choices it is not YOU giving her 30 day notice. It is her choice. 

    Thanks for taking my harsh response with a positive attitude. This is just business and at the end of the day, you want to make money and have tenants take care of your property - that is it.

    >Keep in mind if the property is in CA, Governor Newsom extended the eviction ban in CA to July 28th.

    Can you provide a reference?  What I have seen is the governor has authorized local jurisdictions to extend to end of July.  So the jurisdictions of my units (San Diego, San Diego County, and Escondido) have all only extended to end of June.  I suspect there may be jurisdictions that have extended to end of July, but I am not aware of any.

    1Reply
  • Resa D.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Dan H.

    Thanks, this is my understanding of what I am doing. According to my lawyer, I do not have to give a reason to her for my choice. 

    0Reply
  • Dan H.Pro Member
    Investor · Poway, CA · Member since 2015 · 7k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Resa D.:

    @Dan H.

    Thanks, this is my understanding of what I am doing. According to my lawyer, I do not have to give a reason to her for my choice. 

    The problem you may have is if she does not leave and you need to evict (force vacating). I do not know Riverside's current eviction moratorium, but where my units are there are no evictions until July (moratorium thorough June). Hopefully, it does not come to that, but STR tenants have less protections than LTR tenants. LTR tenants in older multiplex have more protections than LTR tenants in SFR or newer multiplex.

    Your STR tenant has little protection other than the protection resulting from the virus epidemic. if this were normal times, it is relatively easy to get rid of STR tenants. I have seen my STR PM get it accomplished in a couple/few hours.

    Good luck

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Resa David

    This doesn’t even hit the scale of bad tenants. You’ll need thicker skin to survive much longer.

    1Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Dan H.:
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
    Originally posted by @Resa D.:

    @Joe Splitrock

    Thank you! I will consider everything you are saying. My question for you is: is it a no cause eviction if I choose not to extend the lease? My understanding is that I have to give the 30 day notice if I don’t want to extend...

     You can choose to not extend month to month agreements and you can give a 30 day notice. (It only becomes an eviction if she doesn't leave and you have to take her to court). It is just an abnormal situation, because you offered her a long term lease before you gave her 30 day notice. Normally if you were not renewing, you wouldn't give the tenant an offer to renew or they would be options. Keep in mind if the property is in CA, Governor Newsom extended the eviction ban in CA to July 28th.

    My guess is she will just leave as requested. From what you described, she doesn't sound like a bad person. She wasn't happy with the rent increase or being asked to leave, but if you look at it from her perspective both of those things kind of suck. Most people leave when asked to leave.

    One other suggestion that I think will help in the future. Always have a deadline for the decision and a default of what happens with non response. For example:

    I am happy to present the following lease options. Please respond by May 30th or this will be considered non-renewal:

    1. Do nothing and your tenancy ends June 30th.

    2. Choose to renew month to month at $650 per month.

    3. Choose to agree to a one year lease at $625 per month.

    You can see with these choices it is not YOU giving her 30 day notice. It is her choice. 

    Thanks for taking my harsh response with a positive attitude. This is just business and at the end of the day, you want to make money and have tenants take care of your property - that is it.

    >Keep in mind if the property is in CA, Governor Newsom extended the eviction ban in CA to July 28th.

    Can you provide a reference?  What I have seen is the governor has authorized local jurisdictions to extend to end of July.  So the jurisdictions of my units (San Diego, San Diego County, and Escondido) have all only extended to end of June.  I suspect there may be jurisdictions that have extended to end of July, but I am not aware of any.

     You are right the executive order allows local governments to halt evictions up to July 28th. Sorry about that, I didn't read close enough. Still as you pointed out, asking someone to leave with 30 days notice is not an eviction. It only turns into an eviction if they refuse to leave.

    1Reply
  • Resa D.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Dan H. - Yes, I will have to look up the moratorium for this area. It’s changed recently and I didn’t keep up with it. Hopefully won’t have any more issues with her leaving. 

    @Account Closed - I’m working on that skin. I’m not crazy upset, just new and needing advice. 😊

    @Joe Splitrock - Thanks! I did speak with the lawyer and he said that it would be considered an eviction... 

    According to the lawyer there is no benefit for me reporting her eviction and she can make it look bad on me if we go to court... any thoughts on this?

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Resa David

    New and seekIng advice is totally fine. If you ever get to the point that this sort of thing genuinely rattles you you’ll likely want to start searching for a pm.

    1Reply
  • Jose Pachon
    Member since 2020 · 1 post · 1 vote
    6y

    It seems like I am in the minority but this is par for the course in the market we operate in, requests and complaints that rent is too high are part of the business in my humble opinion.  It will be difficult for you mentally if every time you hear a complaint, a request or someone bad mouth you you take it personally.  

    Be kind but firm with your tenants, understand that sometimes they will see you as the bad guy because you will have to do things that will disappoint them (ie, raise rent/deny requests) and that not every tenant will have the emotional intelligence to not lash out at you.

    Good luck with your investment.

    1Reply
  • Larry Zucker
    Real Estate Agent & Investor · Raleigh Durham Chapel Hill, NC · Member since 2020 · 44 posts · 30 votes
    6y

    @Jose Pachon

    Are you doing something wrong?

    Absolutely!

    You are worrying about this tenant when you should just cut her loose as fast as you can and be happy she is out. Find a better tenant.

    0Reply
  • Michael King
    Rental Property Investor · Navarre, FL · Member since 2019 · 913 posts · 640 votes
    6y

    How did that first one die in her room? 

    0Reply
  • Resa D.
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2018 · 14 posts · 3 votes
    6y

    @Michael King - Natural causes is the official version. I think it was Covid but they wouldn’t test her. Her Sister was positive 2 weeks later. 

    @Larry Zucker - haha! Thanks!

    @Jose Pachon - Trying my best not to take it personal. Just want to make sure I’m legally within the law. 

    @Account Closed - Good advice. If this keeps up, I’ll be considering it. 

    0Reply
  • Stacy Adams
    Member since 2020 · 3 posts · 8 votes
    6y

    @Resa David

    The tenant seems a little fussy. I am glad I’ve had great luck with my travel nurses I rent to. I do occasionally get tenants that have requests for improvements. Sometimes it is hard to foresee what these travel professionals need to be equipped with and what they supply themselves. I also ask my guests if there’s anything missing they normally get accommodated with or what would be useful to be added. And if it is reasonable and can be used for all future renters then no problem.

    That being said shelves are a little silly. Unless there was no closet, dresser, or drawers anywhere. For a request like that, I would probably do it for partial compensation if they were going to stick around for some time.

    1Reply
  • Oleksandr IvanovskiyPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2019 · 124 posts · 38 votes
    6y

    @Resa David

    You can always ask her to pay for improvements

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free