2 prong outlets in MA?

Question

Roy N. · Answer

Thomas:

If you are sure that there is no K-n-T than the issues with using GFCI receptacles Pat outlined should not occur.

Have you had a sparky look at the property?  Is the panel grounded correctly?  Are any/all boxes on those BX circuits {properly} grounded {i.e. not through the BX casing)?

Older BX is susceptible to corrosion in damp/humid areas (kitchens, bathrooms, basements, garages, etc.), so an extra look in those places is a good idea.

2-pronged, ungrounded circuits for appliances which do not require a ground (lamps, radios, etc.) are perfectly fine.  For appliances and electronic equipment (such as computer) which require a ground (and have a three pronged plug) a properly grounded circuit should be provided/used.

Kyle J. · Answer

Generally if the 2 prong outlets were installed to code, then they should be fine.  Sometimes if you're pulling a permit for major work to be done to the property, they can be required to be brought up to current code.  But aside from that they shouldn't have to be replaced as long as they're functioning properly.

And I've never heard of Section 8 not approving them.  In fact, I know in my state they're allowed.  Section 8 is a federal program but administered locally, so maybe things are different in your neck of the woods but I doubt it.  When the Housing Authority does an inspection, they look for "All electrical outlets and lights must work and all switches and outlets must have covers which are not broken or cracked. Unit must be free of electrical hazards. GFC outlets must be operable."  Doesn't even mention what type of outlets need to be installed.

Pat L. · Answer

The knob-and-tube wiring you seem to have is a non-grounding circuit. Unfortunately circuits of this type often share a neutral downstream of the outlet you want to upgrade with a GFI.

Once installed your new GFCI device may appear to work normally until a load further 'down' in the circuitry is switched on. If that outlet under load is connected via a different ungrounded (hot) conductor to the neutral the GFCI is monitoring the GFI will 'nuisance' trip for no apparent reason driving the occupant crazy.

I just quoted an upgrade for a older couple that refused to eliminate the knob & tube wiring because of cost. They just wanted a 'fire hazard work around' that I refused to do. In fact many of the interconnected sub-circuits I viewed already showed signs of flashing & charring. Much of the original wire insulation had literally decomposed leaving runs of bare copper wiring through what appeared to be old blown in paper insulation. No wonder Insurance companies refuse to carry coverage for homes with knob & tube wiring.

Roy N. · Answer

@Thomas Hickey

Having ungrounded wiring can be problematic with some modern electronic devices, so the first folks to find problems will likely be tenants.

I would check with your insurance provider as they are the second most likely group to provide encouragement ("carrot") to upgrade the electrical ... particularly if you have knob-n-tube.

Code enforcement will likely be third in-line in with a predominately "stick" approach to compel an upgrade, but in any jurisdiction where we operate these things do not usually "kick-in" until you "touch" something  (i.e. electrical or the walls themselves).

You could look into the possibility of using GFCI outlets as a work around.  If permitted, this would be a cost effective approach.

Roy N. · Answer

If you have two pronged outlets, it is almost a certainty you have ungrounded wiring ... possibly even knob-n-tube pending the age of the building.  I would check any three pronged receptacles you have to see if they are grounded or merely installed to allow folks to plug-in three pronged devices.

If you were to open any of the walls during a renovation code would likely compel you to upgrade the wiring in those walls {at least it would here}.   In some places you are permitted to install GFCI outlets to provide a work around for not pulling grounded wiring to all receptacles (consult an electrician in the area to see if this is permitted).

Ultimately, the proper way to resolve the issue is to upgrade the electrical.