I was "almost" charged $54,000 for taking out an Elm Tree- Story Time

I was "almost" charged $54,000 for taking out an Elm Tree- Story Time

Flipper/Rehabber · DFW · Member since 2020 · 374 posts · 208 votes

I flip houses, alot of houses, all around DFW. Sometimes we scrape and build, sometimes we renovate. I just picked up a smoking hot deal in Denton, TX. It was 2 lots that we can convert to 3 and zoned for up to a 4-plex. In theory, we can build 12 units and the land cost was $242,000.

My crews got the permits, started the lot clearing, then I got the phone call...."sir, I noticed your team took down and American Elm tree, actually multiple, and that is going to be a $54,000 fine for mitigation." Uh-oh. 

Lesson 1: Don't take down trees until you have identified potential consequences, one tree hugging neighbor can cost you a fortune.

I saw the pictures from the crews, only 2 Elms were removed and a few hackberrys. The biggest elm tree was rotted inside about 2 ft down, so it needed to go, but now I have to retroactively convince the city this. After about 40 phone calls to arborists, trying to get some certified letters and open discussion with the city, I was unsuccessful. We did, however, get the fine to $14,000 due to them initially saying all the trees were elms, when in reality they were not.

Lesson 2: Take LOTS of pictures, this got the mitigation fine down $40,000. 

Now the city shared that I can plant trees to mitigate based on the diameter of the trees (1:1 ratio and some other calcs). Perfect! Palm trees are wide body and cheap, I will plant a few of those and put a plaque on it in remembrance of the city arborist as a kind gesture. Not so fast, there is a list of trees they want planted for mitigation, and palm trees were not on it. While doing this research, I ran across some alternatives to mitigation, if I "saved" some trees during lot clearing, it would count toward mitigation. Did the city know this and not want to share? Unsure, but either way, we had a few more elm trees on the lot that would count for this. This ordinance is written for large developments, but also applies to small ones as well

Lesson 3: Do your own research.

Ultimately, we got away with providing a tree survey ($500) and about 3 additional weeks of holding costs. It was also about 3-6 hours of my time in phone calls, research and scheduling. Lessons were learned that day! 

Does anyone have a semi-obvious lesson learned or a story like this we can all learn from? 

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JD MartinBusiness Member
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
1y

The biggest issue is that the Elm is severely threatened from Dutch Elm disease; in fact like the chestnut tree there are efforts to create a hybrid that's resistant to the disease before they are all wiped out. Not surprised one of them was already in bad shape. But yes, lesson here is definitely know the laws in your locale. Tree canopy loss is taken pretty seriously in a lot of cities and other places these days. At my Florida house you have to have a permit to remove any tree beyond a few inches in diameter anywhere in the county, and you have to replace it with something from the native shade tree list so yes palm trees don't count. 

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  • MD/DC · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    Wow, thank you for sharing this experience. I would have thought I was being punked. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Arlington, TX · Member since 2016 · 706 posts · 611 votes
    1y

    Wow! I'm glad you were able to reduce the fine! Yeah, I've lived in Arkansas, Texas, and Washington, and yeah, all states get finicky about what type of tree you're deciding to cut down. In some parts of Washington, you can cut them down, but you have to replant them. My dad bought a few acres in Arkansas to build a small multifamily complex, but he couldn't build a thing due to being unable to remove certain types of pine trees, which were abundant on the land. Tree huggers are nothing to play with lol. 

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    1y

    The biggest issue is that the Elm is severely threatened from Dutch Elm disease; in fact like the chestnut tree there are efforts to create a hybrid that's resistant to the disease before they are all wiped out. Not surprised one of them was already in bad shape. But yes, lesson here is definitely know the laws in your locale. Tree canopy loss is taken pretty seriously in a lot of cities and other places these days. At my Florida house you have to have a permit to remove any tree beyond a few inches in diameter anywhere in the county, and you have to replace it with something from the native shade tree list so yes palm trees don't count. 

    Skyline Properties
    View Page
  • Member since 2025 · 71 posts · 27 votes
    1y

    It's always the trees. 

    Don't forget the zoning department. Might make you keep a certain square footage of "window clearance". 

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Richard Helppie-Schmieder:

    I flip houses, alot of houses, all around DFW. Sometimes we scrape and build, sometimes we renovate. I just picked up a smoking hot deal in Denton, TX. It was 2 lots that we can convert to 3 and zoned for up to a 4-plex. In theory, we can build 12 units and the land cost was $242,000.

    My crews got the permits, started the lot clearing, then I got the phone call...."sir, I noticed your team took down and American Elm tree, actually multiple, and that is going to be a $54,000 fine for mitigation." Uh-oh. 

    Lesson 1: Don't take down trees until you have identified potential consequences, one tree hugging neighbor can cost you a fortune.

    I saw the pictures from the crews, only 2 Elms were removed and a few hackberrys. The biggest elm tree was rotted inside about 2 ft down, so it needed to go, but now I have to retroactively convince the city this. After about 40 phone calls to arborists, trying to get some certified letters and open discussion with the city, I was unsuccessful. We did, however, get the fine to $14,000 due to them initially saying all the trees were elms, when in reality they were not.

    Lesson 2: Take LOTS of pictures, this got the mitigation fine down $40,000. 

    Now the city shared that I can plant trees to mitigate based on the diameter of the trees (1:1 ratio and some other calcs). Perfect! Palm trees are wide body and cheap, I will plant a few of those and put a plaque on it in remembrance of the city arborist as a kind gesture. Not so fast, there is a list of trees they want planted for mitigation, and palm trees were not on it. While doing this research, I ran across some alternatives to mitigation, if I "saved" some trees during lot clearing, it would count toward mitigation. Did the city know this and not want to share? Unsure, but either way, we had a few more elm trees on the lot that would count for this. This ordinance is written for large developments, but also applies to small ones as well

    Lesson 3: Do your own research.

    Ultimately, we got away with providing a tree survey ($500) and about 3 additional weeks of holding costs. It was also about 3-6 hours of my time in phone calls, research and scheduling. Lessons were learned that day! 

    Does anyone have a semi-obvious lesson learned or a story like this we can all learn from? 


     Wetlands is another PIA too. 

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