Do Real Estate Agents ACTUALLY Help Investors? (Asking as a Broker)

Do Real Estate Agents ACTUALLY Help Investors? (Asking as a Broker)

Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes

Hey BP community - I'm a broker and I need a reality check on something I'm seeing in the market.

I've been working with investors for years, and I've noticed this massive disconnect that I want to validate with you all. Here's what I'm observing:

"Real estate investors struggle to find brokers who truly understand investment analysis because most agents focus on residential homebuyers. Meanwhile, 'hybrid investor-agents' (brokers who actively invest in real estate themselves) lack professional tools to efficiently manage both their personal portfolio and investor clients - which limits their ability to truly understand and serve investor needs at scale."

Most of my colleagues want to talk about curb appeal and school ratings, while my investor clients are asking me about cap rates, cash-on-cash return, and BRRRR strategies. There's a huge knowledge gap.

And personally, as someone who wholesales and rehabs myself while brokering, I'm constantly switching between different systems - one for tracking my clients' deals and another for managing my own portfolio. It feels incredibly inefficient.

My questions for you:

  1. Investors: What tools are you using to analyze deals, and how are you sharing that information with your agent? (Or are you just doing it all yourself and your agent is basically just unlocking doors?). When you share your analysis (if you actually do) does your broker fully understand it and are they able to guide you?
  2. Fellow investor-agents:
  3. Do you ever feel like you're constantly juggling two separate worlds - your brokerage business and your personal portfolio? If not, what tools do you use to help fill that gap between brokering and personal deals?

I want to know if this resonates with your experience. If I'm off base, tell me straight!

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Lender · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2024 · 58 posts · 19 votes
11mo

As a lender, I think there are very few real estate agents who actually understand investing, the ins and outs, and how to analyze a deal/project. I have a simple rule that I share with my clients, if you're using an agent that hasn't invested in real estate themselves, they likely aren't the right agent for investing. This isn't always the case but I would say it is 98% accurate. 
I personally have several tools (most of which are homemade) to analyze my personal deals along with my clients. As far as the portfolio, I have always used property management for my portfolio and then have a virtual assistant project management for our developement and construction deals. It's not a perfect system but the VA has really helped take the back-end and task related work off my plate.

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  • Lender · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2024 · 58 posts · 19 votes
    11mo

    As a lender, I think there are very few real estate agents who actually understand investing, the ins and outs, and how to analyze a deal/project. I have a simple rule that I share with my clients, if you're using an agent that hasn't invested in real estate themselves, they likely aren't the right agent for investing. This isn't always the case but I would say it is 98% accurate. 
    I personally have several tools (most of which are homemade) to analyze my personal deals along with my clients. As far as the portfolio, I have always used property management for my portfolio and then have a virtual assistant project management for our developement and construction deals. It's not a perfect system but the VA has really helped take the back-end and task related work off my plate.

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    11mo

    @Scott Johnson what exactly are you managing for your investor clients beyond property searches, offers, etc.?

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo

      @Drew Sygit assistance with deal analysis as well. I don't personally manage properties. Also, helping investors understand. Return on investment, cash on cash return and when it should actually be used, and other metrics like that. Great question.

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo

      @Drew Sygit as a part of the analytics, I would also include understanding a hidden dangers that could look like septic tanks and things of that nature. Environmental reports when needed, understanding flood hazards and elevation certificates, etc.

    • Michael SmytheBusiness Member
      Real Estate Agent · Metro Detroit · Member since 2023 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @Drew Sygit assistance with deal analysis as well. I don't personally manage properties. Also, helping investors understand. Return on investment, cash on cash return and when it should actually be used, and other metrics like that. Great question.

      Logical Property Management4.9453 Reviews
    • Drew SygitBusiness Member
      Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @Drew Sygit assistance with deal analysis as well. I don't personally manage properties. Also, helping investors understand. Return on investment, cash on cash return and when it should actually be used, and other metrics like that. Great question.


      We have the same challenges!

      Have created standardized docs we share with prospects as 90% are the same repetitive issues.

      Also, since 90%+ of agents are NOT doing this, what upfront fee are you charging to provide this valuable service?

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Drew Sygit:
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @Drew Sygit assistance with deal analysis as well. I don't personally manage properties. Also, helping investors understand. Return on investment, cash on cash return and when it should actually be used, and other metrics like that. Great question.


      We have the same challenges!

      Have created standardized docs we share with prospects as 90% are the same repetitive issues.

      Also, since 90%+ of agents are NOT doing this, what upfront fee are you charging to provide this valuable service?

      Excellent question. I don’t charge an up front fee, but I do require 3% of the purchase price (negotiable of course, but mostly only for larger/more expensive properties) plus a $645.00 Firm Fee.

      I still roll with the “I get paid when you buy/sell” game, I’m just taking the extra time to stack value on the front end.

      How do you feel your standardized forms are working on your end?
    • Drew SygitBusiness Member
      Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:
      Quote from @Drew Sygit:
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @Drew Sygit assistance with deal analysis as well. I don't personally manage properties. Also, helping investors understand. Return on investment, cash on cash return and when it should actually be used, and other metrics like that. Great question.


      We have the same challenges!

      Have created standardized docs we share with prospects as 90% are the same repetitive issues.

      Also, since 90%+ of agents are NOT doing this, what upfront fee are you charging to provide this valuable service?

      Excellent question. I don’t charge an up front fee, but I do require 3% of the purchase price (negotiable of course, but mostly only for larger/more expensive properties) plus a $645.00 Firm Fee.

      I still roll with the “I get paid when you buy/sell” game, I’m just taking the extra time to stack value on the front end.

      How do you feel your standardized forms are working on your end?

       I'd say your selling yourself short if you're spending more than an hour or two with a new client and NOT charging an upfront "Retainer Fee". You can credit it (NOT refund) to any transaction they do with you in the next 90 days. MUST be a time limit to separate out the time-wasters.

      Our standardized forms are just part of our process.

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo

      @Drew Sygit nice! I appreciate the insight! Mind if I ask what you charge as a retainer? Interested in giving that a shot.

    • Drew SygitBusiness Member
      Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @Drew Sygit nice! I appreciate the insight! Mind if I ask what you charge as a retainer? Interested in giving that a shot.


       DM me:)

  • Bryan HartlenPro Member
    Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 313 posts · 157 votes
    11mo

    @Scott Johnson we’re OOS investors.  We use our realtor partners for deal flow (opportunities), local market dynamics (color on our comp analysis) and as our physical presence during rehab. We partner / equity split with our realtors, so we definitely share analysis but we do the analysis ourselve.  Personally analysis is not something that I would delegate.

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo

      @Bryan Hartlen delegate, no. Neither would I. But collaborate, yes. I'm wanting to see how brokers and investors collaborate, or if it's simply the investor doing the analysis and just getting information they need from the broker. If they ARE working together to analyze, how are they doing so? Heck, is it event the responsibility of the broker to know how to analyze a deal? Maybe not, but if that's the case why are there so many posts requesting "investor friendly brokers"? Is it just new investors who don't know that the only thing they need from the broker is the ARV and sales skills after the rehab is complete? But what if that broker is also helping them buy it? Can a broker who's never rehabbed truly understand the nuances and guide a newer investor? In the purchase process sure, but the analysis?

      it's just a deep thought process that I've been going through for a while. Not sure there's a right or wrong answer.

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Bryan Hartlen:

      @Scott Johnson were OOS investors.  We use our realtor partners for deal flow (opportunities), local market dynamics (color on our comp analysis) and as our physical presence during rehab. We partner / equity split with our realtors, so we definitely share analysis but we do the analysis ourselve.  Personally analysis is not something that I would delegate.

      It sounds like that model has been working well for you guys! So do you guys roll it so that the broker is an equity owner and gets a portion of the profit in lieu of commission? I'm currently JVing a rehab with my buddy who's a contractor. We signed a JV agreement where he put in money to help me buy it, he does all of the work at cost while I take on the loan and manage draws, and when we sell it the buyers agent gets 3% commission and he as I split the profit 50/50.

       Also! I should be in Phoenix next year! Coffee/Lunch is on me!

    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @Bryan Hartlen delegate, no. Neither would I. But collaborate, yes. I'm wanting to see how brokers and investors collaborate, or if it's simply the investor doing the analysis and just getting information they need from the broker. If they ARE working together to analyze, how are they doing so? Heck, is it event the responsibility of the broker to know how to analyze a deal? Maybe not, but if that's the case why are there so many posts requesting "investor friendly brokers"? Is it just new investors who don't know that the only thing they need from the broker is the ARV and sales skills after the rehab is complete? But what if that broker is also helping them buy it? Can a broker who's never rehabbed truly understand the nuances and guide a newer investor? In the purchase process sure, but the analysis?

      it's just a deep thought process that I've been going through for a while. Not sure there's a right or wrong answer.

      Thats all commerical brokers do is help buyers with all the metrics around an investment.
      if your buying SFRS most comemrical broker do not sell those or want to they are too small.

      so you end up working with a REsi broker who sells houses to homeowners and is not versed in running numbers etc nor should they be.. I mean my wife is a top producing agent and never works with investors.. ONly home owners.. so no reason for her to deep dive into how much cash flow a SFR might have.

      So unrealistic expectations if your working with most resi brokers its just not their thing.. you need to interview and find the few out there that do sell small sfr and understand investment metrics.. 

      Now there are brokers that specialize in 2 to 4 units they will be much more versed at the return metrics you want ..

      but just lumping all agents into one group and then saying most dont know squat about what an investor wants is not really fair to the agents .. its up to you not them. 

      PS I have been a RE Broker now for 52 years have done commerical  resi  land  lending  etc etc.. so feel qualified to answer this question.

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo

      @Jay Hinrichs interesting point. Correct that it's all dependent on the broker's choice and how they want to operate. Maybe the market for single family investor brokers is negligible and investors should just understand that very few brokers will ever know how to truly understand them, get the ARV, rehab it or rent it and move on. 🤷

    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @Jay Hinrichs interesting point. Correct that it's all dependent on the broker's choice and how they want to operate. Maybe the market for single family investor brokers is negligible and investors should just understand that very few brokers will ever know how to truly understand them, get the ARV, rehab it or rent it and move on. 🤷


      thats correct.. I have owned 3 brokerages over the years and had 100s of agents work for me.. if you have a 50 person office  maybe 3 will understand deeply about rehab or rentals. And maybe one or two do their own rehabs and flips .. selling to homewoners and being a top producer like my wife  IE 10 mil year in sales or more is more than a full time job she has no time to run numbers or do things for investors its a waste of her time.. Just sayin why would she .. homewoners are a lot easier to deal with and more thankful Plus better at getting referrals from them which is the life blood of any long term agent. 
    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo

      @Jay Hinrichs truth. Unless being a top producer and working with primary home buyers isn't one's goal. But to each their own I reckon 😄 It seems like all of the money is on the primary home buying side anyway.

      But I do feel that there are some, albeit few, who put a primary focus on single family investments. And the point of this post is to hone in on how brokers are helping their investor clients, if they are at all. Maybe they're just ARV finders and listing agents. I could be wrong though.

    • Bryan HartlenPro Member
      Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2018 · 313 posts · 157 votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:
      Quote from @Bryan Hartlen:

      @Scott Johnson were OOS investors.  We use our realtor partners for deal flow (opportunities), local market dynamics (color on our comp analysis) and as our physical presence during rehab. We partner / equity split with our realtors, so we definitely share analysis but we do the analysis ourselve.  Personally analysis is not something that I would delegate.

      It sounds like that model has been working well for you guys! So do you guys roll it so that the broker is an equity owner and gets a portion of the profit in lieu of commission? I'm currently JVing a rehab with my buddy who's a contractor. We signed a JV agreement where he put in money to help me buy it, he does all of the work at cost while I take on the loan and manage draws, and when we sell it the buyers agent gets 3% commission and he as I split the profit 50/50.

       Also! I should be in Phoenix next year! Coffee/Lunch is on me!

      Yes, when we partner, he gets a share of profit vs listing commission.  If we happen to buy a property that's listed then that commission stays with our partner realtor.   Happy to meet when you're in Phx.  
    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @Jay Hinrichs truth. Unless being a top producer and working with primary home buyers isn't one's goal. But to each their own I reckon 😄 It seems like all of the money is on the primary home buying side anyway.

      But I do feel that there are some, albeit few, who put a primary focus on single family investments. And the point of this post is to hone in on how brokers are helping their investor clients, if they are at all. Maybe they're just ARV finders and listing agents. I could be wrong though.


      its also very regional. in some markets were rental houses are 50% or better of all houses there will be more investment minded agents / or should be.. In other markets like many west coast were SFRs maybe make up 10 to 15% of all the rentals of course not nearly the demand or need for agents to focus on that. 
    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo

      @Bryan Hartlen 

      you've actually piqued my interest on this, so I'm diverting from the topic a bit because I think this would be a valuable addition if you're willing to elaborate.

      i'm one of those people who looks at value where it stands in a transaction. When it comes to a real estate broker, their value is in their transaction experience and their ability to assist the buyer in buying or selling a house and potentially forecasting that it will sell at the ARV after the rehab. Obviously I'm simplifying that but that's the main gist.

      When it comes to the actual investment, though, investor value stems from being able to identify the deal (yes a broker can send it but the investors can identify it by virtue of the numbers. This point does lead back to my original query in this string), find the funding, organize the resources and labor to get the rehab done (maybe the broker helps by referring contractors), and understanding the numbers to make sure the deal will work (the usual broker's only involvement in that is really just finding the after repair value).

      In your transactions, the broker has “skin in the game” to be able to get some of that profit. Is the skin their forbearance of the commission (buyer and seller side)? Is it their willingness to bring deals to you first because they have a shot at getting more than their commission? Are they doing other tasks outside of brokerage to assist with the transaction?

      How do you quantify the percentage of the profit that the brokers deserves based on the value points?

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo

      @Bryan Hartlen sounds good! I'll let you know when I'm heading that way!

  • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11mo

    Yes, your off base @Scott Johnson

    Maybe a bit more accurate to say your out in the parking lot of the ball park....

    Look, let me explain it with an example. 

    Say you need to go to a brain surgeon. And when your there, talking about how there gonna play around in your head, you figure, there a Dr so why not ask them about your athletes foot. The brain surgeon is gonna say "I don't know man, go to a foot Dr, I'm a flipping brain surgeon". 

    I am an Investment Real Estate Broker. 

    No, I have 0 troubles or issues with whatever cross-over or any of that because I am an Investment real Estate Broker. I do Investment Real Estate, full-stop. 

    You Scott, like way WAY too many have a croniclly WRONG concept of what an Investment Real Estate Professional is. 

    No, it's not a generalist real estate agent who "can" do some, or has done some investment properties. 

    And for God's sake NO, having some investment properties oneself does NOT qualify a person as any kind of expert. 

    Look, I have ridden horses several times. I am NOT a horse riding expert by any stretch of the imagination. 

    I do more Investment Real Estate deals and operations per quarter than 99% of the so called "investor friendly agents" have done in their entire career. Why the giant difference, because, again, I am a real life Investment Real Estate Broker, it's all but exclusively what I do day in and day out 6 days a week, year after year. 

    No client, even fund level clients, ever come with rivaling tools, resources, network and knowledge to what we have, e-v-e-r. Again, because this is all but exclusively what we do. 

    Your comparing generalists, with highly skilled specialists, were not anywhere close to the same thing.  

    As far as $, hey you just keep thinking being a generalist buyer agent is the way to go. 

    Us real deal Investment Real Estate Brokers, yes there is ever so few of us in contrast to the giant revolving door or generalist and hobbiest agents. 

    And this is why we have the singular most loyal clientele basis in existence. Repeat clients is the norm, not the exception. Heck, it's the expected minimum to be honest. Because if you havn't earned there business for life from the first one, something wen't horribly wrong. 

    The education level, like that of a brain surgeon vs a GP, is a heck of a lot more. Your really do need to be at Broker level minimum. You need companding knowledge of a whole lot of stuff most agents simply all but never run into or need to know. 

    If your "balancing" general home owner clients and investors, no, your not a Investment Real Estate Specialist. If you can't transact on a 80 unit building with the same confidence and command as a townhome, your not an Investment Real Estate Specialist. 

    In my opinion, there is only 1 way to ever become one, and that is to apprentice under one. 

    There is just too much to know for trial and error approach. 

    Yes it's a commitment in niching down, just like choosing a path of being a brain surgeon vs a GP. It is what it is. And it's not for everyone, not even most or many. 

    I say pick your lane and stick to it. Chasing shiny things is not an effective road to go, it isn't. 

    There is nothing wrong with being a Real Estate Generalist, the world needs those. What it doesn't need is people pretending at being something their not. Fake-it to make-it does not apply in this arena. 

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo

      @James Hamling I just want to make sure we’re talking about the same thing. You are aware that I’m speaking about “hybrid investor-agents” meaning brokers who are also investors themselves (regardless of their client mix), right?

      I agree that if someone is specializing as an investment broker, it’s ideal they serve investors only. No argument there. Unless I’m trying to flex 😉


      But my question isn’t about generalist vs. specialist business models - that’s a different (valid) conversation fir a different thread.
      I’m asking about the actual working relationship between brokers and investor clients. How are deals getting analyzed and shared? What’s the workflow? What should each side be responsible for in the process?


      Because even as someone who does this full-time with investors, I’m curious - how do YOU handle deal analysis and collaboration with your clients? Are they running their own numbers and just sending you comps to verify? Are you building analysis for them? Something else entirely?

    • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @James Hamling I just want to make sure we’re talking about the same thing. You are aware that I’m speaking about “hybrid investor-agents” meaning brokers who are also investors themselves (regardless of their client mix), right?

      I agree that if someone is specializing as an investment broker, it’s ideal they serve investors only. No argument there. Unless I’m trying to flex 😉


      But my question isn’t about generalist vs. specialist business models - that’s a different (valid) conversation fir a different thread.
      I’m asking about the actual working relationship between brokers and investor clients. How are deals getting analyzed and shared? What’s the workflow? What should each side be responsible for in the process?


      Because even as someone who does this full-time with investors, I’m curious - how do YOU handle deal analysis and collaboration with your clients? Are they running their own numbers and just sending you comps to verify? Are you building analysis for them? Something else entirely?


      I'm not sure what your trying to get at or ask here Scott. 

      Because in some you ask on some differences, but in other ways you go back to a "comingled" view point, which I covered in the before said. 

      A number of my clients are licensed agents themselves, both agents and brokers. 

      I have had clients who are team leaders, developers, you name it. They all had the people and licensure to technically do the things themselves. They come to us for the #1 most important reason of KNOWLEDGE, to find or confirm WHAT they should be doing. Why they should be doing it, and how they should be doing it. 

      If you understand that paradigm, then it's readily obvious common sense that we are always doing 100% of the analysis and dissemination, presenting it to clients. 

      From there, yes, we highly encourage clients to roll up there sleeves and dive in trying to do there own analysis. It's the scientific process, take what we give and test it, reverse engineer it, try to poke holes in it, seek out flaws. Because the best confirmation is when actively try to prove something wrong and can't. 

      The fundamental problem with a R.E. Agent who done or has some investment deals of themself thinking their an Investment R.E. Expert is, they only know what they know, and there going to push just what they know. 

      So say all they have done is to buy distressed property from estates, fix them up and lease LT as a landlord. THAT is what there gonna push as the everything. Because it IS everything for that agent. 

      That agent does not know the other strategies & tactics. 

      And that agents handful of experience and tools may not be a right fit for that client. 

      When an agent goes to there managing broker and says they have this weird 1-off transaction, not sure what to do, and broker says yeah that's different, hey I know a guy..... I'm that guy. 

      Everyone who's professionally in this space should either be that guy, or have one of those guys. 

      And as NAR states, if a person is not a proficient expert in that transaction type, they should NOT be doing it and should be advising the client to the agent who is a proficient expert in it.

      What I read you saying keeps asking about an agent trying to fake or muddle there way through serving a client they are not proficient in serving. Yes, they should refer them to someone else. 

      What your asking for how does an agent do the various actions of being an Investment Real Estate Broker, is answered in my before statement of best way to learn is apprentice under an Investment Real Estate Broker. 

      I could tell you the tools, resources and process but it's not that simple. There is an art to it all. One can't blindly follow the data outputs. There remains a human aspect, a gut feel, and with it the skills to know how to dig into the data to find confirmation. The art of it all is why apprenticeship is so paramount. 

      For our Investor clients everything starts with the clients individual road map. We get to know them, their specific situations, their desired end destination, time scope, pro's, con's, and we design a viable investment strategy for THEM. 

      From there, it's simply executing on the next steps in the strategic plan. 

      Each individual deal presented has full analysis, from us, on why we are designating it viable, and the viability weight vs the other options. And we encourage clients to do their own analysis. 

      Clients are always free to self designate deal potentials, and yes we will do a full workup on each but there is obviously a charge for such because our time is far from free. And most clients don't really know what to or not to identify and would fee themself to death spamming random potentials that many don't meet the mark. And so, the vast majority sit back and rely on just what we bring to them. We don't encourage this, we do equip clients with full MLS access and ability to self-search and self-designate, but I get it why most don't. They understand they don't know what to look for.

      We work on market, off market, network, and direct source. All depends on clients investing action plan. 

      Direct source is where we go and literally, as says, direct source and buy potential. It's a seller who was not a seller until we created that opportunity. This is a common action in commercial space that for some reason residential isn't savvy to as of yet. 

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo
      Quote from @James Hamling:
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @James Hamling I just want to make sure we’re talking about the same thing. You are aware that I’m speaking about “hybrid investor-agents” meaning brokers who are also investors themselves (regardless of their client mix), right?

      I agree that if someone is specializing as an investment broker, it’s ideal they serve investors only. No argument there. Unless I’m trying to flex 😉


      But my question isn’t about generalist vs. specialist business models - that’s a different (valid) conversation fir a different thread.
      I’m asking about the actual working relationship between brokers and investor clients. How are deals getting analyzed and shared? What’s the workflow? What should each side be responsible for in the process?


      Because even as someone who does this full-time with investors, I’m curious - how do YOU handle deal analysis and collaboration with your clients? Are they running their own numbers and just sending you comps to verify? Are you building analysis for them? Something else entirely?


      I'm not sure what your trying to get at or ask here Scott. 

      Because in some you ask on some differences, but in other ways you go back to a "comingled" view point, which I covered in the before said. 

      A number of my clients are licensed agents themselves, both agents and brokers. 

      I have had clients who are team leaders, developers, you name it. They all had the people and licensure to technically do the things themselves. They come to us for the #1 most important reason of KNOWLEDGE, to find or confirm WHAT they should be doing. Why they should be doing it, and how they should be doing it. 

      If you understand that paradigm, then it's readily obvious common sense that we are always doing 100% of the analysis and dissemination, presenting it to clients. 

      From there, yes, we highly encourage clients to roll up there sleeves and dive in trying to do there own analysis. It's the scientific process, take what we give and test it, reverse engineer it, try to poke holes in it, seek out flaws. Because the best confirmation is when actively try to prove something wrong and can't. 

      The fundamental problem with a R.E. Agent who done or has some investment deals of themself thinking their an Investment R.E. Expert is, they only know what they know, and there going to push just what they know. 

      So say all they have done is to buy distressed property from estates, fix them up and lease LT as a landlord. THAT is what there gonna push as the everything. Because it IS everything for that agent. 

      That agent does not know the other strategies & tactics. 

      And that agents handful of experience and tools may not be a right fit for that client. 

      When an agent goes to there managing broker and says they have this weird 1-off transaction, not sure what to do, and broker says yeah that's different, hey I know a guy..... I'm that guy. 

      Everyone who's professionally in this space should either be that guy, or have one of those guys. 

      And as NAR states, if a person is not a proficient expert in that transaction type, they should NOT be doing it and should be advising the client to the agent who is a proficient expert in it.

      What I read you saying keeps asking about an agent trying to fake or muddle there way through serving a client they are not proficient in serving. Yes, they should refer them to someone else. 

      What your asking for how does an agent do the various actions of being an Investment Real Estate Broker, is answered in my before statement of best way to learn is apprentice under an Investment Real Estate Broker. 

      I could tell you the tools, resources and process but it's not that simple. There is an art to it all. One can't blindly follow the data outputs. There remains a human aspect, a gut feel, and with it the skills to know how to dig into the data to find confirmation. The art of it all is why apprenticeship is so paramount. 

      For our Investor clients everything starts with the clients individual road map. We get to know them, their specific situations, their desired end destination, time scope, pro's, con's, and we design a viable investment strategy for THEM. 

      From there, it's simply executing on the next steps in the strategic plan. 

      Each individual deal presented has full analysis, from us, on why we are designating it viable, and the viability weight vs the other options. And we encourage clients to do their own analysis. 

      Clients are always free to self designate deal potentials, and yes we will do a full workup on each but there is obviously a charge for such because our time is far from free. And most clients don't really know what to or not to identify and would fee themself to death spamming random potentials that many don't meet the mark. And so, the vast majority sit back and rely on just what we bring to them. We don't encourage this, we do equip clients with full MLS access and ability to self-search and self-designate, but I get it why most don't. They understand they don't know what to look for.

      We work on market, off market, network, and direct source. All depends on clients investing action plan. 

      Direct source is where we go and literally, as says, direct source and buy potential. It's a seller who was not a seller until we created that opportunity. This is a common action in commercial space that for some reason residential isn't savvy to as of yet. 

       @James Hamling, I appreciate you sharing your process. Here's what I'm taking away:

      1) You handle 100% of analysis for clients upfront, then encourage them to verify your work

      2) Even licensed brokers/agents come to you specifically for analysis and strategy knowledge

      3) Most clients don't self-identify deals because they "don't know what to look for"

      4) You charge for custom deal analysis when clients bring their own

      This actually confirms part of what I'm seeing - there's clearly a knowledge/expertise gap in deal analysis, even among people who are licensed and investing themselves.

      Still curious to hear from others on what this looks like from the investor side and other broker perspectives.

    • Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:
      Quote from @James Hamling:
      Quote from @Scott Johnson:

      @James Hamling I just want to make sure we’re talking about the same thing. You are aware that I’m speaking about “hybrid investor-agents” meaning brokers who are also investors themselves (regardless of their client mix), right?

      I agree that if someone is specializing as an investment broker, it’s ideal they serve investors only. No argument there. Unless I’m trying to flex 😉


      But my question isn’t about generalist vs. specialist business models - that’s a different (valid) conversation fir a different thread.
      I’m asking about the actual working relationship between brokers and investor clients. How are deals getting analyzed and shared? What’s the workflow? What should each side be responsible for in the process?


      Because even as someone who does this full-time with investors, I’m curious - how do YOU handle deal analysis and collaboration with your clients? Are they running their own numbers and just sending you comps to verify? Are you building analysis for them? Something else entirely?


      I'm not sure what your trying to get at or ask here Scott. 

      Because in some you ask on some differences, but in other ways you go back to a "comingled" view point, which I covered in the before said. 

      A number of my clients are licensed agents themselves, both agents and brokers. 

      I have had clients who are team leaders, developers, you name it. They all had the people and licensure to technically do the things themselves. They come to us for the #1 most important reason of KNOWLEDGE, to find or confirm WHAT they should be doing. Why they should be doing it, and how they should be doing it. 

      If you understand that paradigm, then it's readily obvious common sense that we are always doing 100% of the analysis and dissemination, presenting it to clients. 

      From there, yes, we highly encourage clients to roll up there sleeves and dive in trying to do there own analysis. It's the scientific process, take what we give and test it, reverse engineer it, try to poke holes in it, seek out flaws. Because the best confirmation is when actively try to prove something wrong and can't. 

      The fundamental problem with a R.E. Agent who done or has some investment deals of themself thinking their an Investment R.E. Expert is, they only know what they know, and there going to push just what they know. 

      So say all they have done is to buy distressed property from estates, fix them up and lease LT as a landlord. THAT is what there gonna push as the everything. Because it IS everything for that agent. 

      That agent does not know the other strategies & tactics. 

      And that agents handful of experience and tools may not be a right fit for that client. 

      When an agent goes to there managing broker and says they have this weird 1-off transaction, not sure what to do, and broker says yeah that's different, hey I know a guy..... I'm that guy. 

      Everyone who's professionally in this space should either be that guy, or have one of those guys. 

      And as NAR states, if a person is not a proficient expert in that transaction type, they should NOT be doing it and should be advising the client to the agent who is a proficient expert in it.

      What I read you saying keeps asking about an agent trying to fake or muddle there way through serving a client they are not proficient in serving. Yes, they should refer them to someone else. 

      What your asking for how does an agent do the various actions of being an Investment Real Estate Broker, is answered in my before statement of best way to learn is apprentice under an Investment Real Estate Broker. 

      I could tell you the tools, resources and process but it's not that simple. There is an art to it all. One can't blindly follow the data outputs. There remains a human aspect, a gut feel, and with it the skills to know how to dig into the data to find confirmation. The art of it all is why apprenticeship is so paramount. 

      For our Investor clients everything starts with the clients individual road map. We get to know them, their specific situations, their desired end destination, time scope, pro's, con's, and we design a viable investment strategy for THEM. 

      From there, it's simply executing on the next steps in the strategic plan. 

      Each individual deal presented has full analysis, from us, on why we are designating it viable, and the viability weight vs the other options. And we encourage clients to do their own analysis. 

      Clients are always free to self designate deal potentials, and yes we will do a full workup on each but there is obviously a charge for such because our time is far from free. And most clients don't really know what to or not to identify and would fee themself to death spamming random potentials that many don't meet the mark. And so, the vast majority sit back and rely on just what we bring to them. We don't encourage this, we do equip clients with full MLS access and ability to self-search and self-designate, but I get it why most don't. They understand they don't know what to look for.

      We work on market, off market, network, and direct source. All depends on clients investing action plan. 

      Direct source is where we go and literally, as says, direct source and buy potential. It's a seller who was not a seller until we created that opportunity. This is a common action in commercial space that for some reason residential isn't savvy to as of yet. 

       @James Hamling, I appreciate you sharing your process. Here's what I'm taking away:

      1) You handle 100% of analysis for clients upfront, then encourage them to verify your work

      2) Even licensed brokers/agents come to you specifically for analysis and strategy knowledge

      3) Most clients don't self-identify deals because they "don't know what to look for"

      4) You charge for custom deal analysis when clients bring their own

      This actually confirms part of what I'm seeing - there's clearly a knowledge/expertise gap in deal analysis, even among people who are licensed and investing themselves.

      Still curious to hear from others on what this looks like from the investor side and other broker perspectives.


       Correct but with 1 big modifier. 

      A very big part of it is establishing a Strategic investment plan. 

      Too many set out looking for "a deal" and that's it, no defining of what a "deal" even is. 

      So naturally it seems impossible to find "a deal", because they are without any clear direction of what there even looking for. 

      And most who have some template, are using a very old outdated template of yester-market for opportunity designation. 

      I do this myself, for my own investing, in both real estate and wall street. I first theorize what a "deal" looks like to me. Then I test it's validation in the market today. Than with confirmation of it's viability in THIS market, I design the TACTICS. 

      From there, it's just execution. 

      Strategy, tactics, execution. Rinse & repeat. 

  • Shuff MauldinPro Member
    Investor · MS AL TN, GA · Member since 2019 · 70 posts · 45 votes
    11mo

    In my experience your observation is dead on.  I'm tempted to say "focus on one", but let's be honest, you're a real estate nerd like the rest of us.  You're going to learn both sides of the coin either way because you're curious. 

    1. i start with BP tools, then use a more complex tool for the asset class (AJ's for storage or various for MHP's), and then come back and double check my BP calculator #'s after DD. I am working on building relationships with brokers deep enough where I can explain why I require a 15% IRR at year 5, and not have them blow it off. I'm getting there.

    • Scott JohnsonBusiness Member
      OP
      Specialist · Greenville, NC · Member since 2019 · 673 posts · 408 votes
      11mo
      Quote from @Shuff Mauldin:

      In my experience your observation is dead on.  I'm tempted to say "focus on one", but let's be honest, you're a real estate nerd like the rest of us.  You're going to learn both sides of the coin either way because you're curious. 

      1. i start with BP tools, then use a more complex tool for the asset class (AJ's for storage or various for MHP's), and then come back and double check my BP calculator #'s after DD. I am working on building relationships with brokers deep enough where I can explain why I require a 15% IRR at year 5, and not have them blow it off. I'm getting there.


       I'm lame on the calculator side. I totally still use Apple Numbers spreadsheets, but I've built them in such a way that they cover all of the bases for my Wholesales, Wholetails and Rehabs.

      When you tell them you require a 15% IRR how do they respond before they blow it off? Or do they just drop you like it's hot? I still review IRR in my copy of Real Estate By The Numbers (the thing is like an investor's Bible 😂) but I haven't put it into practical use. Same with the Time Value of Money, but the concept does pop into my mind when I wholesale a property to get a smaller amount of money faster.

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