Zillow sued over 'Zestimate' by Glenview homeowner

Zillow sued over 'Zestimate' by Glenview homeowner

Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 18 votes

Thought this was a good read from CRAIN'S 

A Glenview lawyer sued Zillow, alleging that the real estate site's relatively modest estimate of her home's value has created a "roadblock" to selling at what she thinks it's worth.

Zillow's estimate, known by the trade name "Zestimate," is "effectively a sloppy computer-driven appraisal" of the value of her home, Barbara Andersen says in a complaint suit she filed late last week in Cook County Circuit Court.

As of yesterday, her asking price was $626,000 for the three-bedroom townhouse, but Zillow's Zestimate was about $555,000.

"I'm simply interested in getting these people to stop opining improperly as to my personal property," said Andersen, who practices real estate law. Her suit does not seek money; she wants the court to either require Zillow to remove the Zestimate from her home's listing on the site, or to "amend it to an agreeable market value to Andersen."

Andersen argues in her suit that although Zillow's site clearly explains that a Zestimate is not a professional appraisal, it meets the definition of an appraisal under Illinois law because it estimates the value of a home and is promoted as a tool that potential buyers can use to measure a home's value.

"It gives the appearance to the public of being an appraisal," Andersen said.

Zillow, her complaint says, "should not be engaging in this business practice without a valid appraisal license and, further, the consent of the homeowner." Illinois regulations say only a licensed appraiser can provide an appraisal.

In a statement, Seattle-based Zillow said: "We always say that the Zestimate is a starting point to determine a home's value, and isn't an official appraisal. Also, we always recommend homeowners work with a local real estate agent or an appraiser to determine the best price for their home."

Zillow describes its method of creating a Zestimate as drawing on public records and a proprietary algorithm. On a page of its site that details the level of accuracy of its Zestimates, Zillow says its estimates on Chicago-area homes come within 5 percent of the eventual sale price 47 percent of the time. It comes within 20 percent of the sale price 86 percent of the time.

Andersen said she believes the process is evaluating her property using records of homes built later and "more cheaply" than hers in a less appealing section of the Glen, the redeveloped former Glenview Naval Air Station.

Andersen said that assessing her home against a different group of properties, which are larger and more expensive than hers but in the same section of the Glen, would generate a higher Zestimate.

"Their computers aren't comparing apples to apples when they do a quick spin through the records," Andersen said.

She bought the townhouse, which overlooks a golf course, for $628,500 in 2009, according to the Cook County recorder of deeds. She listed it for $670,000 in 2013, and again in 2014 for $720,000. Her price has come down $94,000 since then, to below her original purchase price.

In her suit, Andersen argues that "Zillow's improper business practice has deterred potential buyers." The complaint does not provide examples of buyers who have been turned off by the Zestimate.

Andersen has called and emailed Zillow several times requesting a change or removal of the Zestimate, according to her complaint. Zillow's spokesperson told Crain's in an email that when Andersen called in December and March, customer service representatives "responded within a day or two with some information about how the Zestimate works, reiterating that we do not manually change Zestimates. In both cases the representative wrote 'The best way to change the Zestimate is to make sure the home details are accurate.'" 

Thoughts???

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Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y

@Edward Smith  You'd think a lawyer filing a lawsuit would pay for an appraisal ($300? $500?) as a way to show that she's correct.  Heck, pay for three of them.  At the moment it just sounds like her 'opinion' of the property value is different that the 'opinion' of Zillow.  Surprise, surprise, two non-appraisers differ on the value of a property.  

I can't wait for the follow-on lawsuit from someone who saw a Zestimate that was high, listed their property for sale, and then complains that they can't get their asking price and the Zestimate coerced them into listing, paying a fee to stage the property, etc.  

You'd think she would sue Avvo first for asserting (through their model) that she's a 6.7 out of 10 lawyer!  That's like what...a D/D+?

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  • Mike CumbieBusiness Member
    REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    Nice article,

    I deal with homeowners who want a "Zestimate" all the time. It is so hard trying to bring someone back down to something more in line. We lose some to an agent promising them that price (Which then it sits on the market until it expires). Personally I think it is doing a disservice to the homeowner because many people believe everything they read online. Sets unrealistic expectations right from jump street.

  • Investor · Savannah, GA · Member since 2016 · 79 posts · 62 votes
    9y
    In our area the Zestimate is very inaccurate. Often hundreds of thousands too low.
  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Edward Smith  You'd think a lawyer filing a lawsuit would pay for an appraisal ($300? $500?) as a way to show that she's correct.  Heck, pay for three of them.  At the moment it just sounds like her 'opinion' of the property value is different that the 'opinion' of Zillow.  Surprise, surprise, two non-appraisers differ on the value of a property.  

    I can't wait for the follow-on lawsuit from someone who saw a Zestimate that was high, listed their property for sale, and then complains that they can't get their asking price and the Zestimate coerced them into listing, paying a fee to stage the property, etc.  

    You'd think she would sue Avvo first for asserting (through their model) that she's a 6.7 out of 10 lawyer!  That's like what...a D/D+?

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Claude S.  Where I am, I think it it runs pretty high.  I'd love to think I'm sitting on another $200K in equity but I don't think it's realistic.  I would be curious to know it's accuracy in densely populated areas vs. rural areas.  Any computer model is going to get more accurate the more data you can shove in there.  If it's an area with infrequent sales I wonder if it reduces the accuracy.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 283 posts · 71 votes
    9y

    Saw this as well and it is about time! Zillow does a decent job at times but sometimes they are very off in either direction good for the homeowner here

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Crown Point, IN · Member since 2009 · 482 posts · 216 votes
    9y

    I agree with Alex. Zillow "Zestimates" are garbage. I put a contract on a property a while back and the Zestimate was $29k. Wow. The appraisal came in at $51k. So much for accuracy Zillow. 

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    9y

    When Im selling a property, I just go into Zillow and change all the details so the Zestimate price pushes higher

  • Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 18 votes
    9y

    Does that work every time?

  • Real Estate Entrepreneur / Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 688 posts · 367 votes
    9y
    Zillow and all of the other real estate websites aren't that good at sold comps. I'll rather have a realtor pull sold comps or comps to see exactly what a property is worth. Now I use Zillow to get a ball park figure of how much the house it's worth. In Illinois and Indiana Zillow is often high after comps come back. I like to be precise as possible when dealing with this type of information because it could make or break a potential deal.
  • Property Manager · Griffith, IN · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 913 votes
    9y

    Indiana is a non disclosure so Zillow sucks. Two similar houses next to each other can have completely different Zestimates. One will be crazy high while the other is super low. But too many consumers rely on that data as coming from God. 

  • Business Owner · Madison, WI · Member since 2017 · 79 posts · 59 votes
    9y
    All a buyer has to do is pay for an appraisal...most buyers know not to trust a Zestimate right? Seems like a greedy seller that wants more than it's probably worth, but who knows.
  • Bluffton , SC · Member since 2015 · 75 posts · 9 votes
    9y
    My next door neighbor just sold and closed on their home yesterday. Zestimate has it at $622,000 sold for $739,000. Some neighborhoods in the area it's pretty close, not even in the ballpark where I live.
  • Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 601 votes
    9y

    I agree. In SOME areas, Zillow's computer anazlyzed Zestimate can be spot on. But only in SOME areas. The other 90% Zillow is sometimes 20, 50, 100% off from the possible value. I agree that there should be something done about this. Yes, even though they state it is not an official estimate, uneducated sellers/homeowners on this issue take Zillow's estimate as accurate and true. Especially if the "estimate" is a lot higher than it should be. It makes negotiating a bit more difficult. 

  • Kenneth GarrettPro Member
    Investor · Florida Panhandle/Illinois · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    Each site that offers free on-line information provides an estimate of the value of property.  Clearly this information is a guess at best.  If you utilize Zillow, Redfin, Trulia etc they all have a value and they are all different.  I agree, the average uninformed individual will take the information as fact.  Clearly, there should be more definitive warnings about the validity of the information.  Do we really need another lawsuit to tell us the information is worthless.  I thought that is why we have brokers.  Everything is available on-line just ask our friend Uncle Google.  I'm sure the courts have better things to do then worry about whether an attorney is being wronged by information that is at best a guess.   What a waste of time.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    Given Zillow are the self-confessed ‘leading real estate marketplace’ with a market cap of $4.9B, and arguably the largest pool of data available to them; you’d think that the algorithms associated with the Zestimate would bring the percentage tolerance a little closer to that of its actual market value, and not the disparity we regularly witness.

    However, those associated with the process of buying & selling a particular property should know it is only intended as a starting point, and shouldn’t be used as leverage in the negotiation, for or against, the listing and sale of the property.

    The agent and homeowner would have a clearer indication of market conditions, location and spec of the property that is being listed. As @Russell Brazil alluded to, you have the ability to update the data within the Zestimate to make it far more accurate. 

    You should always seek professional advice of a qualified agent or appraiser that knows the local market, any FSBO using this as a tool to value their property or any buyer to justify their offer is fair, will always be off the mark.

  • Josh C.Pro Member
    Property Manager · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Yeah, sue those guys providing free information. How dare they try to be helpful and make money off a great product. Different states and counties have different disclosures which make finding the sale price of properties difficult. Regardless of all of this we operate in a free market. If her house was worth what she was asking it would sell. She asking too much and looking for someone to blame besides herself. I mean how could a lawyer be wrong? Ha
  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Edward Smith If you really want to have some fun, look at Zillow for Zestimates for oceanfront property in San Diego. They are literally off (read: under) by millions. Yes, the "s" was intentional to indicate plural. And, no, it doesn't stop property from selling at all for 3-5 times what the Zestimate says.
  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    9y

    I hope the person filing suit wins. Zillow estimates (all AVMs for that matter) are crap and a threat to the balance of the Force. I'm fortunate enough to live in the Bay Area where we tend to understand the limits of technology, but not everyone is so fortunate (or is fortunate enough to have a pool of buyers that knowledgeable). 

  • Investor · Scottsdale, AZ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 885 votes
    9y

    @Edward Smith I am told that Zillow's model is to provide the AVERAGE price per sq ft. That is like saying a 6 foot long horse is equal to (6) 1' foot long chickens. While you can eat horse, it just isn't right and chicken tastes better.

    Besides, don't they smoke a lot of dope in Seattle? "Hey man, let's make this one $649,143 whatda ya think?"

  • Investor · Champaign-Urbana, IL · Member since 2014 · 84 posts · 49 votes
    9y

    @Andrew Johnson epic response.  I was literally laughing when you mentioned Avvo.  On a serious note though, I agree she should have her own professional estimate done and ignore potential buyers whom only make offers in line with the Zestimate.

  • China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    There's no denying that Zillow's "accuracy" is a running joke among real estate agents.  Here's one of my favorite examples. 

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    What amazes me is when the price on zillow doesn't seem to correct based on actual sales. The estimates here are off and sometimes the actual data but like your tax value they don't always get it right.
  • Rental Property Investor · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2013 · 272 posts · 165 votes
    9y

    There are a few limited cases where Zillow Zestimates are fairly close... But of course, there are far more cases where it is completely off the mark.   My spidey sense tells me that it would be a fair compromise for Zillow to allow homeowners to completely remove any display of the "Zestimate" if they chose to do so...

    Of course, however, this would lead to an "adverse selection" problem where when the Zestimate was too high, nobody would request removal.  As much as we all hate mistakes, nobody complains when an error works in their favor.   Humans are congenitally unable to apply objectivity, fairness and universality to their various plights.

    Then the entire Zestimate complex would be systemically biased towards estimates which are too-high.

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2015 · 501 posts · 504 votes
    9y

    Hmmm, I always thought Zestimates were too high (and estimated rents too high also). Apparently they are too low in other areas. Does anyone try to protest their property tax assessment using the Zestimate, in cases where they underestimate the value?

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Fabio Salas I might care more about accuracy if didn't see so many forum posts about how the licensed appraiser got it wrong, used the wrong comps, ignored things, etc.  That at least has a financial impact when it comes to the loan.  So, naturally, the owners *always* think they know best. And if you've ever listed a home and interviewed more than one realtor, you'll get more than one price estimate.  The difference is you get to cherry pick your realtor (I know, it's not all about price), but you can't cherry pick from 3 appraisals, and you can't cherry pick from 3 Zestimates.  

    The challenge with letting homeowners opt out of displaying Zestimates is that every buyer (who would "reply" on Zestimates) now thinks the owner has something to hide.  I know the first thing I'd think is: "Wow, it has be to REALLY low if they bothered to get it removed!"   

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