First of all, I consider myself very smart.  I run a very successful company, have always excelled in everything I do (including school), and have even been pretty successful with RE investing & flipping so far (with my husband) but what holds me back is MATH.   It is super frustrating because I cannot conceptualize or visualize math at all.  I can't think in terms of percentages or ratios, and can't "see" what other people naturally "see" when it comes to numbers.  And I don't mean mathematicians, I mean normal everyday people.  THIS is what holds me back in real estate investing.  I am a creative and massive problem solver.  I see all the opportunities in front of me and all the different scenarios but the math part stops me short.  I literally would be UNSTOPPABLE if I could conceptualize the math of these deals/situations.  

I was listening to a Clubhouse chat with Grant & Elena Cordone and Elena said she doesn't do any of the math because she can't think that way.  She let's Grant handle all of that.  And I was like... OMG THERE'S SOMEONE LIKE ME???!!  So that gives me hope.  I feel like if I had a RE Math coach, who would practice with me every day, I might get better at it but I don't think such a person exists.  I really need to learn one concept really really well so that I actually understand it and then move on to the next.  Just like learning a language or an instrument.  Ho hum.  

I was talking with a lender today and he asked me some questions that I just felt... stupid answering.  I definitely wasn't confident.  Anytime I'm chatting with anyone in RE I just feel dumb.  Just a Friday rant I guess! 

You're not alone. I used to tutor math, and I can tell you that you are not one of the few, you are one of the many. The concepts of math are actually very simple, but math is taught wrong in school...and it has been for years (decades,...maybe centuries). PM me, and I'll give you some tools to help you. REI is nothing but math with dollar signs in front, so it's kind of important. Trust me, I can help you.

Yup.. its just reality that math concepts can be quite tough for many.

I see it all the time with whole sale deals..  IE  pay 200k  sell for 250k and make 50k with no concept of the expenses that go into it and that that kind of spread equates to maybe 10k profit not 50k 

Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs :
Yup.. its just reality that math concepts can be quite tough for many.

I see it all the time with whole sale deals..  IE  pay 200k  sell for 250k and make 50k with no concept of the expenses that go into it and that that kind of spread equates to maybe 10k profit not 50k 

More than that. They don't understand the concept of exponential returns, and rely on percentages in their answers to measure their success. Percentages lie when they are the answer in a REI analysis.

They also accept the answers as givens, instead of the answer being results of the givens...and the variables...and don't realize they can control the variables, because too many live on the right side of the equal sign. The variables, and the control of them, live on the left. If the REI understood the left, instead of taking the quick (lazy), instant gratification the right side gives them, they would see a whole new world of options in REI they never knew were there.

This is why, when asked what books a REI should read, I always give the same answer: Geometry and Algebra. Geometry teaches how to think through a problem, and multi-task it to build a path (plan in REI) to the future answer. Algebra teaches how to apply that plan.

Math is nothing but a series of different languages. No different than French, English (OK, I have to count British English and American English as 2 different languages), etc... Just like those languages, one language can talk to another with the use of an interpreter. Math is no different. You need to interpret each math language into English, and back to math to fully understand math...and the REI needs to be able to be that interpreter.

I blame the way they teach math in school for the struggles found doing this.  They teach/use story problems backwards.  They should use story problems first to teach the math, instead of teach the math, then apply it to story problems.

Math is in EVERYTHING we do and experience in life.

@Julie Hill "math" is a pretty big topic. What more specifically are you not understanding and what are you trying to accomplish with math? What did the lender ask you about? I'm just curious.

Hi Julie,

There is a book real estate math DeMYSTiFieD (exactly like that) A SELF TEACHING GUIDE, by Stephen P Mooney. That book might help as there is a section on investment real estate with examples. There are many online videos about real estate math. There may be other helpful information on this site.

Good Luck, 

Struggling with math associated with real estate? Really? Its not calculus, and no one is expected to write sophisticated genome sequencing algorithms on quantum computing platform to generate nanotechnology stem cells via artificial intelligence. That would require real math skills as a baseline.

I think you may be struggling with real estate concepts rather than the math associated with it.

Originally posted by @Tushar P. :

Struggling with math associated with real estate? Really? Its not calculus, and no one is expected to write sophisticated genome sequencing algorithms on quantum computing platform to generate nanotechnology stem cells via artificial intelligence. That would require real math skills as a baseline.

I think you may be struggling with real estate concepts rather than the math associated with it.

A lot of people struggle with math. It's not a question one extreme (basic adding and subtracting), or the other (whatever the h*** you are trying to impress us with). REI, like life in general, is a combination of Geometry (recognizing and multitasking/planning out solutions to problems) and Algebra (application of those solutions).

This is why whenever someone asks "what books they should read to help them learn REI", I always answer with "Geometry and Algebra".

I totally relate with you @Julie Hill and appreciate your post!  I have a master’s degree from a great private university and managed to get a 4.0 throughout college and graduate school through sheer hard work and perseverance, but absolutely hate math. 

Math just doesn’t come naturally to me. I often joke that I must’ve missed a foundational class or 2 during junior high that led to my inability to “get” math. I simply must use a calculator  (and even then I wonder if I’m plugging in the correct formula!). 

I guess I’m lucky that I married a math whiz. So we complement each other in RE.  I handle most aspects related to selecting properties, contractual matters, property management, etc., while my hubby computes all math-related problems in his head and asks all the right questions when meeting with lenders. Don’t get me wrong, I can grasp the bigger picture when it comes to math and can’t be swindled, but yeah when it comes to doing math problems in my head, for instance, I just can’t do it.

FYI - When I have free time, I visit Kahn Academy (free online courses) to re-visit basic principles of math that I may have missed in school. It’s amazing. I recommend it highly!  Wish my teachers taught math this way back then. 

@Tushar P. I didn't say I couldn't DO math...  I have a Masters Degree. Of course I can do math.  It doesn't mean I ever UNDERSTOOD math concepts though.  RE math is mostly simple and I can do it on paper just fine.  But I can't THINK that way. I can't quickly "see" good deals until I sit down with a pen and paper to figure them out.  And I can't visualize ratios.  I read a ton of RE books, and listen to a ton on audible and when they get to the math part, I struggle to "see" it.  I have to reread it and figure it out myself to understand.  I definitely can't do quick surface level analysis in my head.  (I mean the 1% rule sure...)   When I tell you... "Film in S-log 10-bit 422 at 3200 Kelvin" can you visualize it?  I can.  Obviously this is my career and not everyone knows film production but this is also a visual concept.  I can "see" it in my head.  I know what it will look like. My point of posting this was out of frustration because I would love to get into note investing and more complicated things but that might make my head explode.  I also have a couple of partners who will send me deals sometimes... "look at this!" it will be a sheet of numbers and I'm like... "um walk me through this".  It sucks.  Be very lucky this comes easy to you!!   Knowing how to do math and being able to conceptualize math concepts are two different things.