What Real Estate Mentors Won't Tell You

22 Replies

As someone who has paid to go through multiple real estate training programs and mentorships, I'm curious to know your thoughts on what I have experienced, observed, learned, and discovered in the past few years. 

Here are some bullet points:

  1.  Real Estate Mentorships can be great for speeding up your education in RE investing
  2.  Real Estate programs can help build new profitable relationships that one otherwise would not have had (such as with successful people)
  3.  Real Estate Mentors often will not tell you how difficult/saturated/competitive the industry is
  4.  Real Estate Mentors often won't tell you how unlikely you are to succeed (similar to the music/entertainment industry)
  5.  Real Estate Mentors will often talk down on corporate jobs, even though many corporate jobs have less stress and better pay than running your own real estate wholesaling/investing business (especially when those jobs are commissions sales jobs)
  6.  Real Estate Mentors are highly incentivized not to tell the whole truth b/c it does not benefit their income to do so (i.e. - telling the whole truth would mean less mentees signing up for their $10k programs and therefore less money for them)
  7. Real Estate wholesaling is similar to the music/entertainment industry in that there is a very low barrier to entry and only a few who will succeed (regardless of how hard he/she works)

    Please note that I am not trying to be negative here. I am trying to be REAL (as I am someone who wants the TRUTH). If I am off the rails on any of these points please correct me and explain how. In my experience thus far (having gone through many mentor programs while also observing how most participants have very little success) I have noticed that RE mentors have a tendency to downplay any talk that would expose the fact that most of their 'students' not only will not have big success in wholesaling (for example), but cannot have that success. This is, again, due to the saturation of the market given the very low barrier to entry.


    I recently did the math on a mentee that (on paper) had 'big success' with wholesale marketing/flipping in the state of New Jersey. This person showed that he and his partner had made over $650k in NET income for the 2020 tax year. Pretty good, right? Well, not according to my calculations. Here is the math I did: 

    Net Income: $668,631 (13 flips/wholesale deals)
    Split w/ partner: $334,315.50
    Capital Gains tax: 35% x $334,315 = $217,305
    Necessary 2022 marketing capital - 20% x $217,305 =
    NET, NET take home
    $173,844 per partner

    In my corporate sales job I can make between $250-$350k (clock in, close some deals, clock out, and have full benefits). Is the above model worth it? From my view the answer is a clear "NO!" This is especially the case when I compare the work life balance I have now with that of a full time wholesaler/flipper (where they are essentially required to eat, sleep, and breath their business for multiple years with no reliable pathway to true financial independence - 7 days/week and 365 days/year). The way I see it, a corporate sales job can be WAY better than most RE mentors are willing to admit. 

    What are your thoughts? Where am I off track here? 

        @Aaron Lietz I signed up with a mentor to learn to do larger multi families than I was doing. Because I had experience we settled on the number of between 20-60 doors as my target number for deals and there were video trainings, zoom meetings, phone calls, action plans and homework. I was all in until we got to the part that I had to find my own investors, he had no plan for that and on the first deal I sourced I needed about $1,000,000. My parents are the only people I know with that kind of money and they’re not happy I’m investing in real estate. I had $250,000 so I needed about $750,000 more. The other 300 people in my contacts would have caused me to need to create a syndication which wasn’t covered in the mentor ship. I really felt like he dropped the ball on that. He gave two examples of fundraising. One guy went to church and raised $2,000,000 and one guy raised $1,700,000 at work.

        I’m just better doing what I’m doing with my own team. Lesson learned.

        Hey @Aaron Lietz if you are making 250k-350k, it does NOT sound like you need to be a wholesaler. Maybe syndications is where you might need to look. Maybe you have plenty of cash that you can accumulate quickly. Maybe you have plenty of friends who make a similar amount of money who can put in money to your syndication? 

        Since you can make a good income from your job AND you like it, stay there!! If you live below your means you should be able to save plenty to be able to invest. Invest with other people. Be a private lender to friends and/or family. Invest in syndications where you put in 50k or 100k per deal and you should get a great return. Do some commercial deals that are bigger. 

        Take all the knowledge that you paid for over the years and apply it to bigger types of deals. All knowledge is useful. YOU just have to figure out how to use it to your advantage.

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        @Aaron Lietz

        You did a very well written and thought out post. I have personally had more than one paid mentor coach tell me that most of the people they work with will not succeed. One even told me and referred to a certain client in the sense that they couldn’t succeed. People talking about wholesaling in order to get into the business most of the time Never wholesale for a living themselves. Slow and steady has worked well for a lot of people, but of course that’s not what sale courses and mentorship programs. Most of your free or almost free real estate Boot Camp’s actually are a giant sales funnel for the upsell toward the end of the class. If a person leaves their credit cards at home they might actually meet some good contacts there though.

        @Aaron Lietz , while I have not paid a mentor, there is an incentive to sell a product.  But I also think there is incentive to no oversell anything in today's world.  The internet makes it very easy for a disgruntled client to spread the failings of the mentor's program all over the internet.  

        I personally have a naturally skeptical view of any product.  If a mentor's tactics really worked so well, and they really were making all this money using them, why would they offer their services in such a low cost of entry business. 

        But, I also don't think the mentor is totally responsible for judging someone's motivation.  They are in the business of bringing in clients to their program.  I agree they should be frank about the fact that it is hard work, and will take a lot of time and perseverance to get through the early days, but the mentor cannot be calling a client every day to wake them up, drag them out of bed to hit the pavement, and knock on doors with the client.

        Important note is that most folks that want to get into wholesaling are not making big money  in fact almost the opposite they are sold on do wholesaling so you can save money to buy  and hold.   and the opportunity for someone who is making or has made in a good year 30 to 60k  to make 150k plus is a huge motivator and carrot.. ergo they will risk all their money on guru wholesaling courses.  most as you know fail but those that make it are happy with the numbers you posted.. but they will need a big chunk of cash for marketing to get to that deal flow .. its a small business you need liquidity in any start up business.

        Good points. I tried wholesaling, ppc marketing, fb marketing, mailers... wholesaled a few, found my own deals, flips, rentals, ect. But I've found that it's not worth my time/effort when I can work my flexible job with great benefits and income $300+. 

        Back when I made $150 ish a year flipping a house for an extra $20k was worth the hassle and time. Now, I just want to buy and hold long term. I still might mail occasionally but want nothing to do with wholesaling. 

        Good for the ones that make it work. But there's a lot of money in real estate education. And the real estate mindset against formal education and college is laughable. Most are fake it until you make it.... And most never do. 

        @Aaron Lietz they won't tell you that they make all their money being mentors, not doing real estate deals. It is better to have a coach who openly admits their job is coaching, rather than a mentor claiming "I made millions on real estate, take my program to learn how".

        @Aaron Lietz - Your post caught my attention, as someone who has taught college architecture, had two mentors, and has coached/mentor real estate in the past.  As in the collegiate arena, or for the most part in life, the 80/20 rule applies.  While teaching, 90% of the students would say their goal was an A.  The 10% who stated their objective was to learn "x" or "y" were usually the 10% who earned an A, the rest did not put in the effort to earn an A.

        There are truths to your points 1, 2, and 3.  As I have never been in the music industry or considered being a mentor a full time job, I can not comment on 4-7 as an industry.  I did disclose the challenges as well as strategies to overcome the challenges, nor will I state I had an answer for every challenge.  I do agree whole selling is a hard way to earn a living.

        I also do believe their are other tangible benefits for working in real estate that you did not disclose in your analysis.  But at that point, it appears your discussion was more about whole selling versus the pros and cons of a having a mentor.

        When asked if someone should have a mentor, I will most likely say yes - because I have benefited from them.  I will also state, going into the relationship, one should have a clear goal and expectation - what they are trying to accomplish, and how much time and energy are they willing to accomplish said goal.  Otherwise, the 80/20 rule will prevail.

        Is your post about mentors or about whole selling?  I agree it is a tough business, much like being a real estate broker.  That being said, a tool we have used and an important one to have in the tool belt.  It is also important as a buyer to understand the role of a whole seller.  I would also contend, not everyone has the ability to make $250,000 - $350,000 in a corporate job, so I tip my hat to you for accomplishing that.  By the government's definition, that puts you in the top 1%.  I do know whole sellers who are also in the top 1%.  So, by the government's standard it is equally as hard to earn the same amout of money.  If you determine it is easier for you to do that working a corporate job, awesome - I trust it serves the country as a whole for you to be doing your job well.  If someone else finds more satisfaction being a whole seller, more power to them - not a job I desire to do full time.  If someone wants to coach full time, I hope they are good at what they sell, and help those who buy from them.

        @Mike Landry hey I hear ya Mike, but I’m making 70-80k a year extra house flipping. It works for me. If you’re not making the profits ya need in a business get out and do something else.

        Originally posted by @Aaron Lietz :

        As someone who has paid to go through multiple real estate training programs and mentorships, I'm curious to know your thoughts on what I have experienced, observed, learned, and discovered in the past few years. 

        Here are some bullet points:

        1.  Real Estate Mentorships can be great for speeding up your education in RE investing
        2.  Real Estate programs can help build new profitable relationships that one otherwise would not have had (such as with successful people)
        3.  Real Estate Mentors often will not tell you how difficult/saturated/competitive the industry is
        4.  Real Estate Mentors often won't tell you how unlikely you are to succeed (similar to the music/entertainment industry)
        5.  Real Estate Mentors will often talk down on corporate jobs, even though many corporate jobs have less stress and better pay than running your own real estate wholesaling/investing business (especially when those jobs are commissions sales jobs)
        6.  Real Estate Mentors are highly incentivized not to tell the whole truth b/c it does not benefit their income to do so (i.e. - telling the whole truth would mean less mentees signing up for their $10k programs and therefore less money for them)
        7. Real Estate wholesaling is similar to the music/entertainment industry in that there is a very low barrier to entry and only a few who will succeed (regardless of how hard he/she works)

          Please note that I am not trying to be negative here. I am trying to be REAL (as I am someone who wants the TRUTH). If I am off the rails on any of these points please correct me and explain how. In my experience thus far (having gone through many mentor programs while also observing how most participants have very little success) I have noticed that RE mentors have a tendency to downplay any talk that would expose the fact that most of their 'students' not only will not have big success in wholesaling (for example), but cannot have that success. This is, again, due to the saturation of the market given the very low barrier to entry.


          I recently did the math on a mentee that (on paper) had 'big success' with wholesale marketing/flipping in the state of New Jersey. This person showed that he and his partner had made over $650k in NET income for the 2020 tax year. Pretty good, right? Well, not according to my calculations. Here is the math I did: 

          Net Income: $668,631 (13 flips/wholesale deals)
          Split w/ partner: $334,315.50
          Capital Gains tax: 35% x $334,315 = $217,305
          Necessary 2022 marketing capital - 20% x $217,305 =
          NET, NET take home
          $173,844 per partner

          In my corporate sales job I can make between $250-$350k (clock in, close some deals, clock out, and have full benefits). Is the above model worth it? From my view the answer is a clear "NO!" This is especially the case when I compare the work life balance I have now with that of a full time wholesaler/flipper (where they are essentially required to eat, sleep, and breath their business for multiple years with no reliable pathway to true financial independence - 7 days/week and 365 days/year). The way I see it, a corporate sales job can be WAY better than most RE mentors are willing to admit. 

          What are your thoughts? Where am I off track here?  

          Wholesaling is most desirable by broke people or those who feel stuck. That’s why I got into it. As you start to get experience into the business, you see not is all that it seems. You are 100% right. I’ve been down the wholesaling path and prefer something a bit more stable. 

          I love that you are bringing this up as the turnover in this industry isn't talked about enough. I'm in the process of a research study to estimate what the turnover in our industry real is. And I started a podcast REI Uncovered to discuss the same topic. So yea it's important to bring up and your line of reasoning is 100% spot on.

          Originally posted by @Aaron Lietz :

          As someone who has paid to go through multiple real estate training programs and mentorships, I'm curious to know your thoughts on what I have experienced, observed, learned, and discovered in the past few years. 

          Here are some bullet points:

          1.  Real Estate Mentorships can be great for speeding up your education in RE investing
          2.  Real Estate programs can help build new profitable relationships that one otherwise would not have had (such as with successful people)
          3.  Real Estate Mentors often will not tell you how difficult/saturated/competitive the industry is
          4.  Real Estate Mentors often won't tell you how unlikely you are to succeed (similar to the music/entertainment industry)
          5.  Real Estate Mentors will often talk down on corporate jobs, even though many corporate jobs have less stress and better pay than running your own real estate wholesaling/investing business (especially when those jobs are commissions sales jobs)
          6.  Real Estate Mentors are highly incentivized not to tell the whole truth b/c it does not benefit their income to do so (i.e. - telling the whole truth would mean less mentees signing up for their $10k programs and therefore less money for them)
          7. Real Estate wholesaling is similar to the music/entertainment industry in that there is a very low barrier to entry and only a few who will succeed (regardless of how hard he/she works)

            Please note that I am not trying to be negative here. I am trying to be REAL (as I am someone who wants the TRUTH). If I am off the rails on any of these points please correct me and explain how. In my experience thus far (having gone through many mentor programs while also observing how most participants have very little success) I have noticed that RE mentors have a tendency to downplay any talk that would expose the fact that most of their 'students' not only will not have big success in wholesaling (for example), but cannot have that success. This is, again, due to the saturation of the market given the very low barrier to entry.


            I recently did the math on a mentee that (on paper) had 'big success' with wholesale marketing/flipping in the state of New Jersey. This person showed that he and his partner had made over $650k in NET income for the 2020 tax year. Pretty good, right? Well, not according to my calculations. Here is the math I did: 

            Net Income: $668,631 (13 flips/wholesale deals)
            Split w/ partner: $334,315.50
            Capital Gains tax: 35% x $334,315 = $217,305
            Necessary 2022 marketing capital - 20% x $217,305 =
            NET, NET take home
            $173,844 per partner

            In my corporate sales job I can make between $250-$350k (clock in, close some deals, clock out, and have full benefits). Is the above model worth it? From my view the answer is a clear "NO!" This is especially the case when I compare the work life balance I have now with that of a full time wholesaler/flipper (where they are essentially required to eat, sleep, and breath their business for multiple years with no reliable pathway to true financial independence - 7 days/week and 365 days/year). The way I see it, a corporate sales job can be WAY better than most RE mentors are willing to admit. 

            What are your thoughts? Where am I off track here? 

            I feel your pain. I have 25 years of buying and selling properties experience. Someone on BP was whining that they couldn't find a mentor that wasn't $10,000. So, I offered on BP, to train people, For Free on how to buy properties "off market" using little cash. The only catch was that we split the profits 50/50. There were no upfront fees and I'd provide the capital and the training.

            I had 12 takers from all over the country, from New Orleans, Chicago, San Antonio, Dallas, Nashville, Seattle, Albany, Amarillo, El Paso, Charleston, Columbus, Indianapolis etc, etc.

            I gave an overview and all agreed to the program. I started by explaining what the fundamentals are, how to do the paperwork and how to find leads, what to say to the sellers and so on.

            Everything was going great until we got to actually talking to prospective sellers.

            A month in, only two, a guy from Chicago and a guy from San Antonio would actually call prospective sellers. Everybody else dropped out at that point. (Too busy they said, not a good personal time to do this they said) and other excuses.

            The guy from Chicago got hung up on NOT going more than 10 miles from his home and wasn't able to find a property that wasn't ridiculously expensive. The guy in San Antonio did a bit better but every property he looked at was on the MLS. The whole point was to buy OFF market, not the MLS. He couldn't wrap his mind around talking to people who hadn't listed. Within another month he was gone.

            Would I do that exercise again? Probably not. I spent too much time taking their phone calls, teaching, mentoring, encouraging and I was very nice through the whole process, they simply didn't follow through. 

            My question is that, since 90% of people won't follow through (and that is not the mentor's fault) that is statistics, why spend the time with people not committed to the objective? I'm rich because I did the work, I stuck to the objective and I learned as I went. It isn't any different than any other endeavor. It takes work and perseverance and if you stay the course you win. If you flame out you're a wannabe.

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            I think you are probably wrong on number 4 to an extent. The reality is most all new small business fail whether a restaurant, retail business or real estate business. However, new real estate businesses are the most likely to succeed. I don’t think it compares at all to the music industry. I think the exaggeration in the industry is that RE is passive income/investment income. There is work to do. It’s just less work than most other types of new small businesses.

            Vs, owning, Wholesaling is a JOB...you have to re-invent the wheel every time for you money and no equity buildup or income sheltering.

            Then there are always more unique ways to make money, Donald Trump for instance leased an old post office in DC in 2013, did a fix-up and turned it into a beautiful Hotel and is now selling the lease rights--some are estimating he will double his investment upon sale (to the tune of a few hundred million in profits).

            Not quite wholesaling, but more a like a Big Flip... 

            They don't teach that at seminars--and that is BIG money!

            https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/10/12/trump-nears-sale-washington-hotel-old-post-office-report-says/6101669001/

            Originally posted by @Mike Hern :
            Originally posted by @Aaron Lietz:

            As someone who has paid to go through multiple real estate training programs and mentorships, I'm curious to know your thoughts on what I have experienced, observed, learned, and discovered in the past few years. 

            Here are some bullet points:

            1.  Real Estate Mentorships can be great for speeding up your education in RE investing
            2.  Real Estate programs can help build new profitable relationships that one otherwise would not have had (such as with successful people)
            3.  Real Estate Mentors often will not tell you how difficult/saturated/competitive the industry is
            4.  Real Estate Mentors often won't tell you how unlikely you are to succeed (similar to the music/entertainment industry)
            5.  Real Estate Mentors will often talk down on corporate jobs, even though many corporate jobs have less stress and better pay than running your own real estate wholesaling/investing business (especially when those jobs are commissions sales jobs)
            6.  Real Estate Mentors are highly incentivized not to tell the whole truth b/c it does not benefit their income to do so (i.e. - telling the whole truth would mean less mentees signing up for their $10k programs and therefore less money for them)
            7. Real Estate wholesaling is similar to the music/entertainment industry in that there is a very low barrier to entry and only a few who will succeed (regardless of how hard he/she works)

              Please note that I am not trying to be negative here. I am trying to be REAL (as I am someone who wants the TRUTH). If I am off the rails on any of these points please correct me and explain how. In my experience thus far (having gone through many mentor programs while also observing how most participants have very little success) I have noticed that RE mentors have a tendency to downplay any talk that would expose the fact that most of their 'students' not only will not have big success in wholesaling (for example), but cannot have that success. This is, again, due to the saturation of the market given the very low barrier to entry.


              I recently did the math on a mentee that (on paper) had 'big success' with wholesale marketing/flipping in the state of New Jersey. This person showed that he and his partner had made over $650k in NET income for the 2020 tax year. Pretty good, right? Well, not according to my calculations. Here is the math I did: 

              Net Income: $668,631 (13 flips/wholesale deals)
              Split w/ partner: $334,315.50
              Capital Gains tax: 35% x $334,315 = $217,305
              Necessary 2022 marketing capital - 20% x $217,305 =
              NET, NET take home
              $173,844 per partner

              In my corporate sales job I can make between $250-$350k (clock in, close some deals, clock out, and have full benefits). Is the above model worth it? From my view the answer is a clear "NO!" This is especially the case when I compare the work life balance I have now with that of a full time wholesaler/flipper (where they are essentially required to eat, sleep, and breath their business for multiple years with no reliable pathway to true financial independence - 7 days/week and 365 days/year). The way I see it, a corporate sales job can be WAY better than most RE mentors are willing to admit. 

              What are your thoughts? Where am I off track here? 

              I feel your pain. I have 25 years of buying and selling properties experience. Someone on BP was whining that they couldn't find a mentor that wasn't $10,000. So, I offered on BP, to train people, For Free on how to buy properties "off market" using little cash. The only catch was that we split the profits 50/50. There were no upfront fees and I'd provide the capital and the training.

              I had 12 takers from all over the country, from New Orleans, Chicago, San Antonio, Dallas, Nashville, Seattle, Albany, Amarillo, El Paso, Charleston, Columbus, Indianapolis etc, etc.

              I gave an overview and all agreed to the program. I started by explaining what the fundamentals are, how to do the paperwork and how to find leads, what to say to the sellers and so on.

              Everything was going great until we got to actually talking to prospective sellers.

              A month in, only two, a guy from Chicago and a guy from San Antonio would actually call prospective sellers. Everybody else dropped out at that point. (Too busy they said, not a good personal time to do this they said) and other excuses.

              The guy from Chicago got hung up on NOT going more than 10 miles from his home and wasn't able to find a property that wasn't ridiculously expensive. The guy in San Antonio did a bit better but every property he looked at was on the MLS. The whole point was to buy OFF market, not the MLS. He couldn't wrap his mind around talking to people who hadn't listed. Within another month he was gone.

              Would I do that exercise again? Probably not. I spent too much time taking their phone calls, teaching, mentoring, encouraging and I was very nice through the whole process, they simply didn't follow through. 

              My question is that, since 90% of people won't follow through (and that is not the mentor's fault) that is statistics, why spend the time with people not committed to the objective? I'm rich because I did the work, I stuck to the objective and I learned as I went. It isn't any different than any other endeavor. It takes work and perseverance and if you stay the course you win. If you flame out you're a wannabe.

              this is exactly why the mentors charge.. your post is a perfect example.. that way when those that are all enthused dont follow through the Mentor still has income for his time and effort... I have been around this industry a long time. ( Paid Training) and its like everything else in real estate sales wash out rate is very high 90s or better.. little less with real estate agents but still high. and a little less with RMLO's but still high. this is a sales gig and sales is hard you not only have to know what to do and how to do it but you need some mad sales skills to talk people into selling their property for far less than what its really worth on the open market.. thats the bottom line..  And that is also what leads to some pretty nefarious transactions where unconscionable profit taken happens and the victims are usually elderly or non english speakers or minorities . 

              @Mike Hern   I have offered the my money 50 50 split for decades now.. very rare anyone takes you up on it at all and even rarer that anyone succeeds..

              Do Hard Money understands this with their 100% financing but they charge 3k up front for training materials.. so at least they get that 3k in the door and then those who need 100% financing some will find a deal that fits their lending box but its super tough in this market .. and I dont blame DHM for having very stringent underwriting for 100% financing.  

              @Mike Hern That's the problem isn't it.  They all want their hand held and can't get past their own head and do what needs to be done.  I've taken the opposite position lately.  I've got people that want to learn, so I have them pony up money for the deal and then walk them through it.  They pay a lot more attention when their money is on the line.   

              If you ever want another one down in SA give me ring =) 

              @Aaron Lietz curious why you felt the need to may for multiple different programs and mentors. Did you just feel that they weren’t effective so you sought out new/better options? Or were you finding more advanced programs to further your knowledge base?

              @Aaron Lietz

              From your post it sounds like you are looking for a way to improve on your financial situation. Most mentors can charge you to tell you how "they" did it but that may not matter or be applicable at all for you. It all boils down to what you are willing to do to pursue what you want. You could become the best wholesaler in your area if you really, really wanted to - but it doesn't sound like you do. It is much easier for you to use your skills/experience doing what you are already doing - and making a nice living from it. It seems that many people think real estate is a "get rich quick" opportunity and the reality is that as with nearly all businesses, it is not. Working for yourself means you work longer, harder, and give up more along the way. So why do we do it? So we can control our own destiny.

              From your description I think a different approach to consider is to do buy/hold rentals in lower-cost markets and build passive income over time. Eventually this will match/replace your current income, in addition to having a lot of equity and leverage. And you can definitely do this while working full time. There are turn-key companies out there that can take care of nearly everything for you - because you have more cash than time so you can find people to spend the time for you and pay them for it (also applies to syndication deals). In my opinion it is one of the easier ways to build wealth. If you aren't an expert in finding properties, wholesaling, rehabbing, BRRR'ing, managing, etc. then pay others to do it for you. You will benefit from the leverage that real estate investing offers.

              And while everyone has their own opinion on mentors, I will share mine. Seek out the people you want to emulate. They may not be real estate professionals or professional mentors, what draws us to people is their success that we envision ourselves having. Find people you actually know who are having/have had the success you want for yourself. They are the best mentors because you will get to know them and by investing your time in them (demonstrating your commitment) they may invest their wisdom in you.

              Flipping is a job....rarely a business.....it is not real estate investment.

              Lots of people want the dream of quitting their job, not working, and being passive wealthy investors.

              That's not wholesaling/flipping....but 99% of the people don't understand the difference.  Wholesaling and flipping is work.  Real work, potentially real hard work.  There is risk, much more than most people understand.

              My guess is 90% of the people have no money, so they are really trying to start, run, maintain some kind of a profitable business on a shoestring....wouldn't matter if it is real estate, dry cleaning, restaurant, snow cone stand, or whatever....doing it with no budget and no money is very very very tough.  Possible yes, but easy no.  It is also high risk.

              Lots of people talk about passive income, but so far I have not truly found any area that is 100% passive.  Most of it is work.  There are good profits to be made, but rarely do I think the windfalls come with 1-2 hours a week reading/talking/attending seminars.  

              I have quite a few thoughts on the topic but will try to keep it rather brief.  I've been in several of these groups and amongst my network probably know someoen who has been in 90% of the real estate masterminds that exist. 

              I think they definitely serve a purpose and I joined Ryan Dossey's group about two years ago and its the best money I could have spent.  I was in a situation where I had done a few offmarket deals but wanted to figure out how to go direct to seller because those were the most desirable deals.  I joined that group because I needed an example of people who were buying off market deals and weren't sleazy and actually cared about people.   Before I joined that mastermind I had done 3 deals my first year, to the year i joined to 40+ this year, and the spreads on those have consistently gotten larger as well.  But even more than that I've made great friends in the group and have an awesome community there. 


              That being said, I've done other masterminds where I'm not fully bought into their group and calls and community and just simply joined to learn a specific strategy and have access to resources around that.  Which is fine and I think they can serve different purposes.  And there is another group I'm in that doesn't put out a ton of content or really sell anything but it's a ton super knowledgeable, super experienced investors that can help with anything. 

              I think all the points on it being hard and most people will fail, etc are interesting.  So much of this business is mindset.  I'm in a competitive market (we have a ton of wholesalers and every ibuyer that exists) but there are plenty of deals to be had and no one is going to keep me from getting deals.   With that too, having been in a mastermind group for a while you can quickly pick out who is going to be successful by their approach, their interactions, their mindset, etc.  There are also people that join and expect the work to be done for them and it just doesn't work that way. 

              In the world of gurus and masterminds and all that jazz it can be tough to sort of out what's real and what's not.  I think there are definitely groups out there that are well worth the price of admission and many times can help you get where you want to be faster.


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