100 % FINANCING

24 Replies

Does anyone have any advice on how to get 100 percent financing on a loan for 1.5 million? I have a great business plan to purchase a local duplex complex. I  already have one duplex that I have purchased recently that I may could refinance. ALL ADVICE IS APRECIATED! thanks

Is the Seller's daughter married?

This might not sound like it, but this is a serious question. What are you bringing to the deal? Not cash, that's clear. And, unfortunately, that means a lot. You have the deal, and that may or may not mean something. If you're simply found a deal on the MLS or loopnet and don't have it under contract, having the deal doesn't mean much. Someone can easily take it. OTOH, if you have a good, off-market deal under contract then the deal itself is worth something.

If you're an experienced investor who has done similar deal previously, you might be able to do this as a syndication.  IMHO if you need investors for 100% of the down payment you will need to give up something very close to 100% of the ownership.  That is, if your investors give you 100% of the cash in the deal they are going to want to get back close to 100% of the returns.  A deal like this makes more sense where you can put in some fraction of the cash and get investors for the rest. Then you can collect the percentage based on your cash plus some fees for managing the company that owns the property and (if you do this) managing the property itself.  With none of your own cash, you might still be able to collect the fees for managing the company and property, but you're still giving up a lot.  That assumes you are experienced and have a track record to show potential investors.  And that you know some potential investors.  If this is your first deal you may have a tough time finding investors.

I've seen posts by others who say they have done syndications with none of their own money and still kept a significant chunk of ownership.   Personally I would never invest in such a deal, unless it was a VERY lucrative deal.

Is seller financing possible?  That's always your best bet for 100% financing.  Or a master lease option?  Partial seller financing might be possible, too, such as 70% from a lender, 15% from seller and 15% of your own cash.  But that's not 100%.  Unlikely a lender would let you do something like 75% from a lender, 25% from the seller.  Lenders want to see YOUR money in the deal.

Jon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC

The only thing I can think of without getting too crazy is to do owner finance for 6 months or so to allow seasoning.  Now, first off, this assumes you are getting these for a nice price....somewhere near 75% of appraised value, else this won't work.

Once you have owned them for 6 months or more and they have seasoned, you can go one by one to the conventional loan market and do a cash out refi or change in terms to get cash to the seller property by property.  Depending on number of units, this might take too long.

Else, you could go to an institutional lender and get a bundle loan for 75% ltv or so.  If you bought right, then the appraisal should be such that a loan at 75% of appraised value at time of refi will cash out the seller....excess rent revenue accumulated during the 6 months should be able to make up the rest.

If you aren't buying right, or if the appraisal at time of refi doesn't support the values, you are stuck.  That said, if you aren't buying right, you shouldn't be buying.

Here is a scenario that could work but this is a LONG SHOT.

Get a bank loan approved for a loan for a 75% loan. ($1,125,000.)

Get the seller to loan you the other $375,000 Needed for the down payment.

This is a possible strategy but it is very unlikely. Do not plan a real estate career thinking that you will be able to perform deals like this very often.

If you have a large amounts of assets you stand a better chance because you have something that the seller can secure the loan too. Unless your buying this building for an insanely good price the bank will not allow a 2nd mortgage to be attached to it so you will not be able to use this building to secure that $375,000. & also if the deal was good enough that the bank would allow you to attach that 2nd the seller would have many buyers beating on the door to buy and would not need to offer a $375,000 loan.

Medium holton wise property group logo jpegJames Wise, The Holton Wise Property Group | [email protected] | 216‑661‑6633 | http://www.HoltonWisePropertyGroup.com | Podcast Guest on Show #127

You could try to syndicate the deal (bring in other investors to put in the downpayment and you take a piece of the equity, maybe 20-30%). This creates a security, though, so there's quite a bit of legal work involved.

Medium apartment logoAndrew Syrios, Stewardship Investments | http://www.StewardshipProperties.com | Podcast Guest on Show #121

@Andrew Syrios  I agree that if the deal is strong enough to syndicate, this is an option.  As @Jon Holdman   stated

"If you're an experienced investor who has done similar deal previously, you might be able to do this as a syndication" "If this is your first deal you may have a tough time finding investors." 

Jon,  I really would be interested in your reasoning behind this statement that I have heard you state many times in the past and I, and other syndicators I am sure, would like to understand the logic. @Brian Burke  @Joe Fairless  @Joel Block  

 "IMHO if you need investors for 100% of the down payment you will need to give up something very close to 100% of the ownership. That is, if your investors give you 100% of the cash in the deal they are going to want to get back close to 100% of the returns. A deal like this makes more sense where you can put in some fraction of the cash and get investors for the rest. Then you can collect the percentage based on your cash"

I have never heard you state that a flipper should only receive back the amount of cash they put in.  Many times on the forums we hear about 50/50 splits with flippers and their capital partners. 

What about a wholesaler, do they deserve to make money on "just finding and tying up a deal"

Is the service provided by a syndicator, finding the deal, setting up the syndication, finding the investors (jumping through the SEC hoops), getting the financing, doing the due diligence, personally signing on the loan, asset managing during the hold, keeping the investors fully informed during the hold, and all the other major tasks of running a deal, not of some value.

It is very generous to allow the syndicator to create a JOB for themselves. "you might still be able to collect the fees for managing the company and property.

I realize that being a passive investor in a syndication is not for you. "Personally I would never invest in such a deal, unless it was a VERY lucrative deal." The fact is, you do not fit the scenario of the passive investors that would be interested in most syndications.  That is assuming that you are doing a good job of keeping your money working for you.  In the book The millionaire next door, Dr Stanley states that the poor and middle class spend more time working for their money while the wealthy spend more time finding ways for their money to work for them. 

Syndicators provide a service to those, that for many reasons, wish to be passive investors.  The syndicator takes on huge responsibilities, taking care of OPM and making the project successful. They must be totally transparent, and work hard to maintain their most valued possession, their reputation and credibility.  For my own education, I would like to know why you feel that there is no value being brought to the table, by the syndicator, beyond the funds they put in.

Medium sig  3 Jeff Greenberg MBA, Synergetic Investment Group, LLC | [email protected] | 805.372.1799 | http://www.synergeticig.com | Podcast Guest on Show #115

I'm working on a deal similar and trying to pull off 80% LTV with 10% and either 10% seller carry back or 10% cross collateralozation.... Also see if your broker or both brokers will do a broker carry back commission...

Or banks to be comfortable Woth creative financing I agree with everyone that it has to be a great deal... Like purchasing price being 80 of appraised value.

Jeff - very well put. The experienced syndicator brings two big components to the transaction. The first is basic deal sense and for that, the syndicator (promoter or in the new CrowdFunding parlance - the issuer) is paid fees for services such as brokerage, property management, project management and other types of oversight that require time and personal attention. Secondly and hopefully bigger - is the unique sense for special opportunities that a true investment professional sees which others do not. For that, the syndicator receives a "carried interest" or back end split which can be 10% to 50% of the profits. Real estate deals are not based on percentage of ownership like venture transactions. Rather they function on shares of profits because there is not the same potential "lift" or growth in enterprise value like in stocks. If the syndicator picks a great deal, he or she can make a lot but if the project is not so great, there may not be any back end to share. We need both components - not just the fees and not just the speculative back end. The business model works and it has been used successfully for over 40 years. Do not assume that 100% of cash equals 100% of stock. The cash does receive "first money" which protects the risk of the investors.

@Jeff Greenberg  first, funding a fix and flipper is, IMHO, a very different business model than investing in a long term buy-and-hold private placement.  The 50/50 split between a fix and flipper and a money partner is, again IMHO, perfectly reasonable.  The fix and flipper is doing a lot of work over the course of several months to fix and sell the house.  So the fix and flipping is putting a lot of hours into the deal, that's their value.

With a long term buy and hold syndication deal, its much more like investing into a business.  If you offer me 50% of your deal for $1 million, then you are valuing the whole business at $2 million.  That's just simple math.  So, as a potential investor, I want to determine if the existing business as-is is worth $1 million.  If that business is making widgets, you have a widget and some sales, and maybe some IP (patents, copyrights), then I may be able to convince myself the existing business has value.

OTOH, if you come to me with that offer and the business is to buy an income producing piece of real estate, I'm going to be very skeptical if my $1 million is the only cash in the deal.  If you're buying a $5 million asset, using my $1 million for the down payment and getting a $4 million loan, I put the value of that business, WITH MY $1MILLION, at right at $1 million.  That's the equity in this real estate.

Unlike a business that is producing some product or service and that has some ring-fencing against competitors, real estate really has little value beyond the asset itself.

You and @Joel Block  make valid points that your EXPERIENCE does have value.  I do agree.  And that may well justify a slice of equity in the business.  How big a slice depends on the circumstances.  But you're not going to convince me to give you 50% ownership with none of your cash if this is a straightforward buy-and-hold for a big asset.  That's not a complex business, so why shouldn't I just go find a similar asset and buy it myself?  That is really the question a syndicator has to answer, and its the question I started with above.  "What value do you bring to the table."

If that value is "I found the deal, I've done 10 similar deals, I know how to select and manage the property management, I'll deal with overseeing the manager and all day-to-day issues the manager has, and send you monthly and annual accounting", then I might be OK with a 10%ish slice of equity to you, assuming you were not collecting managment fees.

As the percentage you want goes up, I want to see the value go up.

Where you might get a high percentage is if you say "I have solid info something is going to happen in this area that is going to create a big spike in demand.  We need to repostion this property to better take advantage of this spike.  If we do that, this will make much more money than it will as it currently is" then you're bringing a much bigger value to the table.  That starts sounding more like the fix and flip or the company with some intellectual property.  And that, to me, justifies a larger and large slice to you.

That's what I mean by "very lucrative deal".  If you have a deal that returns, say, 12% overall, and you'll give me 90% ownership for 100% of the money, that's still generating the returns I want.  OTOH, if you only offer me 50%, I'm not interested.  But bring a deal that's going to create 25% returns, and I'd be much more interested in an offer of 50% ownership for 100% of the cash.  Again, in that case you have real value because you have a deal with really good returns.

OTOH, if you've never owned a rental, never done a syndication, have NO cash of your own, and come to me saying "give me 100% of the cash to buy this 6% cap rate apartment building I found on loopnet, I'll give you 50% of the returns" I'm going to laugh.  Well, probably not, I try to be nicer than that.  But no way am I investing in that deal.  Frankly, you got nuthin.  You have a deal anyone could buy.  No experience, no contacts.  You're not bringing anything to the table.

Jon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC

@Jon Holdman  - your opinion I value as much as anyone on BP; you should know this by now.  If the proposition is a purchase business, then two things are needed:

1. Capital

2. Someone to run the business

Saying that a syndicator's (experience) has value and is worth something is rather ambiguous.  What experience translates into is my ability to run all aspects of this business so everyone makes money.  If not, this is why I don't get paid and you get paid everything - this is where prefs come into the equation.

Now - I don't think that 50/50 is fair under any circumstance if I am not putting money in.  I, personally, would not feel right about that - regardless of how much the thing is making.

But, 20%-30% of equity and 50/50 split of CF after investors get their pref is fair.  Mind you, I am unlikely to get any CF until year 3 or 4 into the deal in most deals.  So I am working for a future pay-off in a typical 5-year syndication.  And if I actually manage to generate so much CF early on that I can cover the pref and get paid to boot as a syndicator, that just means that I am hitting them out of the park.  In which case, why shouldn't I get paid something...

Thoughts, Jon? 

@Jeff Greenberg  and @Joel Block  Very well said!  Even getting to the point of completing your first syndicated deal can take thousands of hours, your own funds, and a ton of hard work.  If you truly believe that time is valuable, just that alone is worth a lot. 

IMO there is a difference in being a RE investor compared to a RE entrepreneur.  An investor wants x% on his money and clearly needs a vehicle to achieve that.  An entrepreneur on the other hand is the one who goes out and creates that vehicle for the investor.  It's a mutually beneficial relationship that requires both sides working together to be successful.  

@Ben Leybovich   again, it all comes down to returns.  If my goal is, say, 10% return on my cash, and you can offer me a deal that generates those returns, and convince me you will actually get them for me, then I may be perfectly OK with you getting a large slice of the pie with little investment of your cash.  Its that "convince me" part where experience and track record comes into play.

OTOH, if you bring me a deal that only generates a small return (i.e., a typical return from an apartment building investment) and you say you want me to give you 100% of the cash but you're keeping 50% of the return for yourself, indefinitely, I'm not going to be interested.

Or, if you bring me an investment that you claim generates a good return, but its some cockamamie scheme  (e.g., cold fusion), you're not getting my money.   

Certainly other investors may have different criteria than me.  I have investments in three private placements.  One, in hard money lending, has done well.  Two others, a mini-storage and a development project, have been losers.  In both cases the promoters made good cases the projects would return money, both had good track records, and both projects looked good.  But they STILL turned out to be bad investments.

My overall advice to anyone considering private placements would be that if you do not personally understand the business you're investing in well enough to run the deal, or do not have access to enough information that you could step into the promoters shoes at a moments notice if he or she was ran over by a bus tomorrow, don't invest.   You're handing over a pile of cash to some individual.  If you don't understand INTIMATELY what they're doing with that cash, don't hand it over.

Jon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC

@Jon Holdman  I have a great respect for your opinion on many areas of RE.  It seems that in the area of syndications, and passive investing we seem to have a very different opinion. I am attempting to get a better understanding of your logic so any BPer can form their own opinion on the subject.

I think all of us would agree, that the success or failure of a CRE syndication is highly dependent on the sponsor of the syndication.The crowd funding sites talk about strong vetting of the syndicator as well as the deal.So what is the value of that credibility that the syndicator worked years to acquire.We may moan and groan about the fee we pay for a lawyer, but we are paying for his knowledge and years of schooling.

@Nick Keesee  stated “Even getting to the point of completing your first syndicated deal can take thousands of hours, your own funds, and a ton of hard work. If you truly believe that time is valuable, just that alone is worth a lot. “

I have so far not found a deal that I could do a 50/50 split on, and I have my doubts that I ever will. On the other hand if I can provide the investor with a great return, is it really important how much I make. If I can provide a low risk 10% coc CF to the investor, does it really matter if I get 10%, 20%, or even 50% of the cf. Are we not going to buy gas because the CEO of the companies are making millions or billions.  

Everyone has the choice whether or not to invest. As syndicators we need to find deals that will peak the interest of the investor. We need better deals than most other investors or we will never see our cut.

Jon Holdman

 “That's not a complex business, so why shouldn't I just go find a similar asset and buy it myself? That is really the question a syndicator has to answer, and its the question I started with above. "What value do you bring to the table."

My answer is, that there are many moving parts to a commercial transaction, especially when you add OPM and the SEC element. It is not complicated in that you need to be a brain surgeon, but you do need a team and a lot of organization. If the investor can “go find a similar asset and buy it, then they should do it. It is obvious by the interest of passive investors, that many people cannot do it, or are not interested in doing it. Many have their own businesses and want to diversify and have someone else oversee and grow a part of their funds. I have seen the results of many deals that have been purchased by investors that thought that they could throw money at a property, hire a PM and go back to their medical or legal practice and be comfortable in the fact that their money was safe and growing. Isn’t it that easy?

Isn't it that easy?   @Ben Leybovich   @Eric Tait  

In addition to the fact that many high networth individuals don’t have the time to watch over their properties, but they don’t have time to find the best deals. I have seen many syndicated deal that are providing the investors a HIGHER return than many deals I have seen the smaller investor receive on their own.I had a recent conversation with an investor that told me that he had just figured that he was making a coc return of about 4% on a sfh.Now I understand there is loan paydown, deprecation, and maybe appreciation, but there is also repairs, vacancies and PM issues.

Passive investing is not for everyone, nor is active investing. Sponsors of syndications, provide a service, yes it is a service, to those that desire it and should be appropriately compensated.

Jon, can you elaborate on this.“Unlike a business that is producing some product or service” Is providing housing not a service?

 The value of an asset is what the market will pay for it. An empty apartment is worth almost nothing except for the potential of the business that can be run through it.

Medium sig  3 Jeff Greenberg MBA, Synergetic Investment Group, LLC | [email protected] | 805.372.1799 | http://www.synergeticig.com | Podcast Guest on Show #115

@Jon Holdman  

Now we are getting much closer to an agreement.  The deal needs to make sense and the pro-forma be realistic.  Let's also vet the Sponsor and their track record.

I do agree about not investing in something you don't understand, but up to the point that the investor could run it, is pushing it.  I would want to know what the backup is if that bus takes out the sponsor.  Is the company deep enough that someone else can take over or do their have insurance on that person so someone could be hired to take over.

Medium sig  3 Jeff Greenberg MBA, Synergetic Investment Group, LLC | [email protected] | 805.372.1799 | http://www.synergeticig.com | Podcast Guest on Show #115

Originally posted by @Jon Holdman:

  But you're not going to convince me to give you 50% ownership with none of your cash if this is a straightforward buy-and-hold for a big asset.  That's not a complex business, so why shouldn't I just go find a similar asset and buy it myself?  That is really the question a syndicator has to answer, and its the question I started with above.  "What value do you bring to the table."

As the percentage you want goes up, I want to see the value go up.

I am NOT an expert on this topic, but after reading this thread twice I think Jon's argument is the best here.  I just do not see that a syndicator  is either contributing enough to warrant 50% interest with no cash or that he has enough skin in the game to stick to the deal if things get tough. I think most people on this board will probably feel the same. 

Jon Holdman

“That's not a complex business, so why shouldn't I just go find a similar asset and buy it myself? That is really the question a syndicator has to answer, and its the question I started with above. "What value do you bring to the table."

My answer is, that there are many moving parts to a commercial transaction, especially when you add OPM and the SEC element. It is not complicated in that you need to be a brain surgeon, but you do need a team and a lot of organization.

But that's not the situation we're talking about, @Jeff Greenberg    We're talking about a situation where someone want's someone else, that is some one person, to invest the entire down payment into one specific deal and yet get only part of the returns.  There's no SEC complexity for the investor would could buy the asset himself or herself.    

Now, its entirely valid and someone might not have the knowledge to acquire and operate a property.  Recall the OP was talking about a "duplex deal".  IDK if that's one duplex or several, but that's not particularly any more complex than buying one or several SFRs and renting them out.  But if someone is trying to buy a place that's out of their comfort zone then getting assistance in some way is certainly something they should do.  That doesn't necessarily mean giving up a slice of your profits indefinitely for some who gives you up front advice on how to do the deal.  If you want a slice on an ongoing basis, I want you to be providing value on an ongoing basis.  Such as the manager who runs our mini-storage.

Sorry, but on this we will just have to agree to disagree:

I do agree about not investing in something you don't understand, but up to the point that the investor could run it, is pushing it.

I will stand by that advice.  If you're being offered a private placement and you don't understand the deal intimately, DO NOT INVEST.  Before I invested in my first one (that mini-storage), I asked the accountant I was using at the time to have a look.  He said he would, but would have to charge me a significant amount to go through the operating agreement and PPM and that "most deals like this are bad deals anyway".  That certainly proved accurate for that deal.  So, like I say for turnkey properties, I'll say most private placements are bad investment.  Before you buy a turnkey or invest in a private placement, convince yourself that its a good investment.  Independently of all the wonderful claims the syndicator or turnkey seller makes.

Lots of folks in real estate promote the notion that real estate is better than stocks because you have control over a real asset instead of just a share in a company where you have no control or visibility of the inner workings.  That's true if the investor is buying assets they own themselves.  That's less true when you're investing in a private placement.  Unlike owning a piece of real estate, when you are invested in a private placement, you own NOTHING beyond a unit in the ENTITY that owns the asset. You have much less security than when you own an asset directly and you are relying on the people who are running the company to do the right thing.  That is MUCH more like a stock investment than a real estate investment, even if the underlying assets are real estate.

Jon Holdman, Flying Phoenix LLC

"That's less true when you're investing in a private placement. Unlike owning a piece of real estate, when you are invested in a private placement, you own NOTHING beyond a unit in the ENTITY that owns the asset. You have much less security than when you own an asset directly and you are relying on the people who are running the company to do the right thing. That is MUCH more like a stock investment than a real estate investment, even if the underlying assets are real estate"

We can agree on this and I would hope that investors spend more time doing their DD then most do in the stock market.

But that's not the situation we're talking about, @Jeff Greenberg We're talking about a situation where someone want's someone else, that is some one person, to invest the entire down payment into one specific deal and yet get only part of the returns. There's no SEC complexity for the investor would could buy the asset himself or herself.

In reality one investor can make it a security if not setup properly. I will stand by my statement that if I can make a transparent, realistic offer to an investor that they are happy with, the cut should not matter.  With that said, I would put safeguards in the deal in favor of the investor such as preferred returns.  The investor should be informed of all of risks as well as potential rewards. The up side and possible downside.  With that, the investor can make their own informed decision. 

On several occasions our investors asked if it was OK to take the offering to their accountant.  We said of course, my only request was to make sure that he/she had an understanding of valuation of commercial real estate.

Medium sig  3 Jeff Greenberg MBA, Synergetic Investment Group, LLC | [email protected] | 805.372.1799 | http://www.synergeticig.com | Podcast Guest on Show #115

This is an interesting debate that brings to print the push/pull of real estate syndications.  Even us syndicators have to consider the investors first when we are structuring our offerings. Is it marketable?  Will our investors react to our offering such as Jon suggests? Or, is the structure just as attractive as the deal?  To successfully syndicate, you have to bring two things to the table in addition to experience and track record:  1. A great deal and 2. A great structure. Bring one or the other and your investors will share Jon's opinions above.

In the context of the OP, I agree with @Jon Holdman  's point of view. If I'm looking to buy one small property and want one or two people to put up my entire down payment and closing costs, I've brought nothing and the investors aren't getting anything for my 50% cut.  We can probably all agree on that.

On the other hand, such a scenario isn't laterally expandable to what @Jeff Greenberg  thinks of when talking about syndicating real estate, which, if Jeff thinks of it the same way I do means larger deals such as large Multifamily or commercial real estate projects or pools of residential assets. While it's true that some lousy sponsors bring nothing to the table, many bring a lot of value that benefits the investor and many of those benefits have already been mentioned.  One that hasn't been mentioned is that syndicators of larger deals also provide the opportunity for people to own a larger property than they can (or want to) own on their own.  As an example, out of the dozen or two syndications I've done only one was funded by a single investor. The majority were funded by several to many investors each contributing far less than would be required for them to have simply bought the property without me.  Here, I offered additional value by bringing diversification for that investor.

That said, the push/pull still exists and it always has. Ever wonder why deal structures can be so complex?  It's to attempt to address the needs of both sides of the debate.

Here's an example.  I bring a great 100 unit deal to the table.  I have experience doing it and a good track record of making sound decisions and managing assets. I show you data on the market, third-party research, and a forecast of performance based on conservative projections.  With this, I convince you that the deal will throw off 20+% return.  (Investor is thinking "yeah, but what if...."). The deal structure is that you get 100% of the profits until you've reached an 8% return. After that, you'll get 70% of the profits until you reach a 15% return, and after that you receive 50% of the profits. If the deal doesn't do as well as I say it will, you get all (or almost all) of the profit. If it does as well as I say it will, I get paid well.  If I do an exceptionally great job (or get lucky by the market) we both do very well and I get rewarded with the highest tier of the split. This structure is designed to address debates such as the one in this thread.  So, Jon, would you invest in this hypothetical deal?  Just $100K of the $2MM needed, not the whole thing.

Medium praxis capital logo cmyk stacked 900pxBrian Burke, Praxis Capital, Inc. | [email protected] | http://www.PraxCap.com | Podcast Guest on Show #152

As always @Brian Burke  great job cutting to the chase.   Once the word syndication came up I instinctively jumped to larger properties and forgot that the original discussion was on a duplex.

It still stands with any business, if you can bring a marketable and realistic return to the investor with reasonable risk, the split shouldn't matter.  This is especially true with the safeguards put in place with Brian's structure.

Medium sig  3 Jeff Greenberg MBA, Synergetic Investment Group, LLC | [email protected] | 805.372.1799 | http://www.synergeticig.com | Podcast Guest on Show #115

@Brian Burke  

I love the syndication terms you outlined in your example.  It ensures that you, as the creator of the deal, do in fact bring real value to your investor(s).  I think most investors would be hard pressed to pass on a deal structured this way, especially considering a track record like yours. 

Well - this pretty well illustrates the real world.  There are different investors out there, looking to achieve different objectives.  It seems,  @Jon Holdman  , that you won't be playing in my sandbox any time soon.  

On the other hand, I don't readily have a sandbox to offer you. I've sat out 2014 preciesely because I couldn't underwrite 15%+ IRR to save my life. God knows I tried. @Brian Burke  knows I tried as well...lol

To each his own, gentlemen.  For my part, I am happy to be in a place and among folks who can have such a discourse.  It's probably champagne talking now :)

Happy New Year!

Thank you everyone for the input. I have taken a lot from all of the post. I am 25 yrs old and I  am just getting started in the rental business and I know my next move will be my most crucial. As of now I have one duplex that I have purchased three months ago and I am not sure if I should try to hurry and pay this one off and then sale it to use as my down payment on a larger complex with more units or what. I should be able to have this duplex paid off in four years. I paid right at 145000 for it. Just looking for good advice on what to do next!!