Buying Duplex - How to avoid PMI

Buying Duplex - How to avoid PMI

Hamilton, OH · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 3 votes

Hello,

Currently in the market for a 2, 3, or 4 unit property - this will be my first home and I intend to owner-occupy one of the units and rent out the rest. I had just assumed that FHA (or 203k) would be the only way to go, however I have noticed other options. I am looking for a loan that meets the following criteria:

  • Less than 10% down
  • Can be used on a 2, 3, 4 plex
  • Owner occupied property
  • No Mortgage Insurance (PMI/MIP)

FHA loans seem to meet all of these criteria, though MIP is required - this can add quite a bit to the cost, just looking for other options. If none exist, my plan would be to get a FHA loan and refinance to a conventional loan after it reached 80% LTV. Suggestions?

Thanks everyone!

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Investor · Towson, MD · Member since 2014 · 472 posts · 257 votes
9y

@Account Closed

You can purchase another property using FHA after refinancing your current place into a conventional loan. However, there is a very big caveat to that: rental income from the vacating home cannot be used as effective income on the new primary residence unless the new home is more than 100 miles away.

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  • Rental Property Investor · NV · Member since 2017 · 63 posts · 26 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Mark H.:

    Hello,

    Currently in the market for a 2, 3, or 4 unit property - this will be my first home and I intend to owner-occupy one of the units and rent out the rest. I had just assumed that FHA (or 203k) would be the only way to go, however I have noticed other options. I am looking for a loan that meets the following criteria:

    • Less than 10% down
    • Can be used on a 2, 3, 4 plex
    • Owner occupied property
    • No Mortgage Insurance (PMI/MIP)

    FHA loans seem to meet all of these criteria, though MIP is required - this can add quite a bit to the cost, just looking for other options. If none exist, my plan would be to get a FHA loan and refinance to a conventional loan after it reached 80% LTV. Suggestions?

    Thanks everyone!

    That's correct, with an FHA loan you are able to put down as low as 3.5% but the draw back is having that monthly PMI. I've talked to a broker about this strategy for my future investments and he agrees that using a low down payment FHA loan and live in that property for 1 year then refinance it to a conventional loan so that you can use an FHA loan to buy another property. Hope that helps.

  • Investor · Towson, MD · Member since 2014 · 472 posts · 257 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed

    You can purchase another property using FHA after refinancing your current place into a conventional loan. However, there is a very big caveat to that: rental income from the vacating home cannot be used as effective income on the new primary residence unless the new home is more than 100 miles away.

  • Hamilton, OH · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed

    That should not be a problem...but that is pretty good tip I've never seen before. Thanks!

  • Investor · Towson, MD · Member since 2014 · 472 posts · 257 votes
    9y

    @Mark H. FHA has a 1.75% upfront MIP as part of the closing costs.

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, NH · Member since 2016 · 460 posts · 276 votes
    9y

    This MIP can be rolled into the loan. Saves you the upfront cost.

  • Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2017 · 62 posts · 32 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Michael Cohen:

    @Account Closed

    You can purchase another property using FHA after refinancing your current place into a conventional loan. However, there is a very big caveat to that: rental income from the vacating home cannot be used as effective income on the new primary residence unless the new home is more than 100 miles away.

     Michael Cohen: Any idea if state lines impact this at all?

  • Hamilton, OH · Member since 2015 · 19 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    @Steve DellaPelle @Michael Cohen

    I understand that the MIP can be rolled into the loan initially, however my worries would lie in the costs of the re-finance....If it takes a considerable amount to refi then it might not be worth it, and worth it to just keep the monthly MIP.

  • Investor · Towson, MD · Member since 2014 · 472 posts · 257 votes
    9y

    @Colin Simon - They do not. The guidelines specify "more than 100 miles"

    @Mark H. - the upfront MIP cannot be "rolled into the loan" unless you get third party concessions (Seller's Concessions, Lender Concessions, etc.)

  • Rental Property Investor · NV · Member since 2017 · 63 posts · 26 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Michael Cohen:

    @Account Closed @Mark H.

    You can purchase another property using FHA after refinancing your current place into a conventional loan. However, there is a very big caveat to that: rental income from the vacating home cannot be used as effective income on the new primary residence unless the new home is more than 100 miles away.

     From what I was told, If you have less than 2 years of land lording the new lender may not use all the income coming from your previous rental property, only 75% to be precise. After having a couple of years land lording, The lenders will come and see that your income from your rental properties will be seen as 100% gross income. 

  • Lansdale, PA · Member since 2017 · 174 posts · 77 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Michael Cohen:

    @Account Closed @Mark H.

    You can purchase another property using FHA after refinancing your current place into a conventional loan. However, there is a very big caveat to that: rental income from the vacating home cannot be used as effective income on the new primary residence unless the new home is more than 100 miles away.

     From what I was told, If you have less than 2 years of land lording the new lender may not use all the income coming from your previous rental property, only 75% to be precise. After having a couple of years land lording, The lenders will come and see that your income from your rental properties will be seen as 100% gross income. 

     The 2 year thing is an overlay from your bank. You can find lenders that will use rental income from day 1.

  • Investor · Towson, MD · Member since 2014 · 472 posts · 257 votes
    9y
    The use of only 75% of income it to account for maintenance, unexpected vacancies, etc. That isn't restricted to any time frame, they always use 75% and that's not him overlay. That's a Fannie/Freddie and FHA guideline.
  • Rental Property Investor · NV · Member since 2017 · 63 posts · 26 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Nicholas Scatton:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Michael Cohen:

    @Account Closed @Mark H.

    You can purchase another property using FHA after refinancing your current place into a conventional loan. However, there is a very big caveat to that: rental income from the vacating home cannot be used as effective income on the new primary residence unless the new home is more than 100 miles away.

     From what I was told, If you have less than 2 years of land lording the new lender may not use all the income coming from your previous rental property, only 75% to be precise. After having a couple of years land lording, The lenders will come and see that your income from your rental properties will be seen as 100% gross income. 

     The 2 year thing is an overlay from your bank. You can find lenders that will use rental income from day 1.

     Thanks for the tip, I guess you really do have to Inquire from different lenders. 

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