Money360 may revolutionize "hard money" lending

Money360 may revolutionize "hard money" lending

Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

On this other BP topic we discussed various ways an individual invest in real estate PASSIVELY, with minimal risk, and get 5-15% ROI. A post by Dionte G. came up (see the bottom of this post) that I think needed to be reintroduced in this forum as its own topic.

Money360, like prosper.com, provides a peer-to-peer lending platform to allow people to lend money to other people in an open transparent marketplace. As a prosper.com lender* for many years, my biggest disappointment with the P2P concept is that their lending has been unsecured lending. I still have a bunch of uncollected money that I'll probably never see. And I only lent to top tier borrowers (over 70% AA rated, the rest A rated)! With secured lending, at least there is collateral to go after.

Now from a business standpoint, a lot of people probably think man, they get a percentage (although small) of each payment and payment up front for 'originating' the loan. They must be making a killing!" Unfortunately, this is not the case. As a company, prosper has lost over $50M since inception and the losses continue. They originated (for their borrowing members) about $27M in loans last fiscal year and their net loss was $10M. With the cash they have, they won't survive long. Their plan calls for increasing transaction volume to increase revenue until they reach profitability and become cash-flow positive. They need a capital infusion.

Enter Money360. Different model. Different lender base (accredited investors vs. casual social lenders). Different borrowers (profit seeking RE projects vs. debt consolidation on declining value assets). And, key IMO, Money360 loan sizes will be 50 to 100 times bigger and I believe more profitable than prosper or lendingClub. Also Money360 doesn't have to educate the world on the concept of P2P lending, prosper and LendingCLub did that.

As I posted on 7/4/11 (I didn't know Money360 existed at that time) I think secured P2P real estate lending will change/revolutionize hard money lending. I also think this type of lending will be widely available in a year to 18 months. Money360 claims to be the first focused on real estate. I've not seen any others and I have looked... though not recently... so I believe this is true.

So I for one am highly encouraged. Outside CA, I believe the minimum investment ($50K in CA) and loan sizes ($200K in CA) will be a lot smaller. I'd like to hear what BP nation has to say. Would you be a lender? Borrower? Does anyone have experience with them already?

From the other post:

[i]I encourage all who have participated in this thread to visit WWW.MONEY360.COM

I want you guy's opinion since this seems to be like a good opportunity although not quite good enough.

I feel as though with their 50k minimum investment they price out a large number of those interested in investing on their platform.

Anyone know of any other similar opportunities being offered now?

Whats your take on this company's opportunity?[/i]

(*Prosper now allows lending in 28 states, NC is not one of them.)

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Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
14y

Chris Martin - that's one thing I like about your posts; you usually have done some digging for the facts, whether it is from public recorded info from some county or from legitimate internet sources. Thanks for your well-researched contributions.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    The first Lending Club loan was in January 2012 and took just a week or so to close. They take their "closing cost" out of the proceeds of the loan, so there is no money down. I used those funds to buy a single-family home that was a bank foreclosure. The property sold for $24,900 on 2/29 and I borrowed $21,000. The remaining funds for the purchase and rehab were from my own funds. I showed that property on 3/10 and had a renter in as of 3/15. Rent is $800/month for a 2bd 1ba home.

    The second one was from Prosper and I received $18,000 -- this was in November 2012. I used this to buy a $23,000 single-family home (3bd 1ba) from a seller who just wanted out. There was little wrong with the property ($1500 in repairs, literally) and already had tenants. $875/month. Closing on that was 11/27 and I started collecting rent the next month. Tenants have been great and payments are like clockwork so far.

    The third one was for $30,000 from Lending Club. I used that to buy a 4bd 2ba single-family from a bank (closing was 12/14), price was $24,000. I used the remainder money plus my own funds to fix up the place. This one required about $15K in rehab (most of that was a new roof). Renovation is still in progress, but close enough to being done where I had showings yesterday and took applications for renting it out March 1st for $1100/month.

    All 3 loans were over 7% interest rate, which is high when compared to traditional mortgages. But they were only 3 year loans so the total amount of interest is really not too much.

    The most important thing is that it allowed me to get these properties which will give me income month after month. My vacancy rate is extremely low and over all the time I have been renting out properties, I have never had to evict and the longest a property has sat vacant was 3 weeks. I believe providing high quality rentals and proper screening is the key to getting good tenants.

    It's gotten to the point where I have had multiple people email/call me wanting me to buy their properties, and it's hard to pass up on some of these deals, but funding is the main issue. As a result, it looks like I will have to take a break from investing for a while.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Chris Martin:
    Originally posted by Jon Klaus:
    ...

    Broken link?

    Yes... it's broken. Sorry 'bout that... http://lendstats.com/. It looks like BP links don't handle the trailing '/' in a URL very well...

    It's not the trailing '/', as you can see in my post :) your first attempt has a ']' where you wanted to use the '=' character.

  • Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    13y

    Dawn Anastasi Just curious. Do these loans have a balloon after 3 years, or are there high payments that pay them off over the three years?

    You said the interest rate is higher than 7%. How much higher? I have some private loans that I'm paying 7% on. It's not bad considering the amount of fees and interest that hard money lenders charge.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    I checked and the higher one was 7.64%. I was a little embarrassed at first getting these loans, because they are so much higher than a mortgage. There is no balloon -- they will be fully paid off in 3 years. Yes, the payments are higher than what you'd get if this was a mortgage only because the interest rate is about double. But the important thing is that the rent pays for the loan payment.

    For example -- the loan I got for $18K, I put some of my own money into the purchase and rehab because the purchase price was $23K and the rehab money was $1500. The monthly loan payment is $579. Rent is $875/month. Property taxes are about $158/month, water/sewer is $60/month, and insurance is $50/month. So as you can see that only leaves $28/month left over.

    So this is why I wouldn't advise just anyone to do this. You'd have to run the numbers first and make sure you have cash reserves to cover any repairs that may come up in the future.

    But, for a $23K purchase that is worth approximately $65K, I would say this was a great deal.

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Steve Babiak:
    Originally posted by Chris Martin:
    Originally posted by Jon Klaus:
    ...

    Broken link?

    Yes... it's broken. Sorry 'bout that... http://lendstats.com/. It looks like BP links don't handle the trailing '/' in a URL very well...

    It's not the trailing '/', as you can see in my post :) your first attempt has a ']' where you wanted to use the '=' character.

    Yup, you are right. It's kind of interesting that on an "update" it seems that the URL notation doesn't seem to be recognized. Don't know about bold and other pseudo-HTML...

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Dawn, you are experiencing equity flow, rather than cash flow. That will reverse the day you pay off each loan. Paying in the 7's% is fine when your cap rate is above 15%. Calculate the total interest you are paying over 3 years vs. paying 4.5% for 30 years. I like your method a lot.

  • Davenport , IA · Member since 2011 · 213 posts · 265 votes
    13y

    Dawn Anastasi Thanks for sharing that info. I may just try to that.

    Jon Klaus Thanks for posting the link to this discussion in another thread and brining my attention back here. Super cool.

  • Rental Property Investor · Manteno, IL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    I checked out their website. Even tried submitting for a low figure loan that I would put down 20% on. The site is basically useless.
    No place to enter comments. No way to set the interest rate you're willing to pay.

    They automatically set my loan request with a rate of 8% of lower. How is that going to attract any decent private money lender.

    I tried to submit a message to the support group but the submission page isn't working.

    360 isn't going to revolutionize anything. My guess is they got zero traction and no longer have staff to maintain the site.

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Mike H. I can't agree with you more. See my July 4, 2012 post. My original post was 18 months ago and the functionality, user experience, and format has not improved. This site is a dud.

    As I said in October, 2012, "Money360 isn't currently a platform that will entice me to change my investing." If you google "money360", the second match is this BP thread. The first is their homepage. The other articles are either old or the authors clearly didn't use the site.

    Too bad, because I think they had a lot of potential.

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 974 posts · 488 votes
    13y

    Dawn Anastasi,

    Under 8% might seem expensive compared to 30 year mortgages but compared to hard money loans that is very inexpensive which after points could easily be double that. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
    I have a few loans near 8% right now, I would like to get them financed into longer term loans but because I have 4 loans already and I am self employed, its not going to happen. But that isn't going to keep me from doing profitable deals. If they pencil with higher rates...that is nothing to be embarrassed about.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Well that's good to know. I have never done "hard money" in the traditional sense, only peer-to-peer, so I don't have experience on the rates there.

  • Davenport , IA · Member since 2011 · 213 posts · 265 votes
    13y

    I created an account to request a loan from lendingclub and interest rates on the loan offers were pretty high. The highest was $28k for 25%. Disappointing. My credit score is well above 700 (can't disclose everything about myself--Haha), too. Bummer.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    13y

    That's pretty crazy to hear regarding lendingclub..I was thinking interest would be much lower with a score over 700.

    I had been thinking of using it so this is kind of a concern.
    Also how many points were they going to charge?

    Do you have time to accept the offer or do you have to make a decision on the spot?

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Lending Club does give each borrower a ranking. A1-A5 and so on down the line. The lower your ranking, the higher the interest rate. When I borrowed I was an A-something so my rate was lower.

    When you apply, you get offered options and you don't have to decide on the spot. But there is an expiration.

  • Developer · Garland, TX · Member since 2008 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Dawn A.:
    Lending Club does give each borrower a ranking. A1-A5 and so on down the line. The lower your ranking, the higher the interest rate. When I borrowed I was an A-something so my rate was lower.

    When you apply, you get offered options and you don't have to decide on the spot. But there is an expiration.

    How much can you borrow, Dawn?

  • Beverly Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    12y

    For those that have been monitoring this thread, like I have, Money360 apparently has revamped their website and has been actively closing commercial deals. They recently announced funding a $2MM loan through their "peer-to-peer lending platform" and project funding $25MM before the end of the year. 

    Curious if anyone on BP has recently applied for a loan on the new site? Their most recent funding was a 120 unit apartment complex in Missouri so they are nationwide. Hoping to get some feedback before going through the loan application.

    Here is the press release I found: http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/money360-closes-2-million-commercial-real-estate-loan-on-peer-peer-lending-platform-1952996.htm

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    12y

    Their business model and implementation approach have changed considerably since I first made this topic. They are a syndicator for $1,000,000 and up commercial loans. I think their model excludes about 99% of the BP audience.

  • Herndon, VA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 324 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

    Their business model and implementation approach have changed considerably since I first made this topic. They are a syndicator for $1,000,000 and up commercial loans. I think their model excludes about 99% of the BP audience.

    It looks like the loans start at 500K, with a 20% minimum equity so it would require at least 100K of capital and more likely 200K.  Not sure about rates, but the term can be as long as 5 years, so it might allow a flip or refinance/rent exit from the loan on a higher end or multi-unit property.

    They seem to be restricted to accredited investors, so that does limit the pool of lenders on BP.  And a lot that qualify would probably prefer to work locally and directly.

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