Need advise should I get a lawyer on contractor threat

Need advise should I get a lawyer on contractor threat

Member since 2021 · 14 posts · 5 votes

Hello BP, I hired a contractor for tile & tub installation in my 2 bathrooms. It was part of a water damage claim so the insurance company is involved. The initial proposal I got from the contractor was $7000 dollar and I have to reimburse the materials that they need to purchase. I was supposed to buy big items like a bathtub and tiles. So I submitted the proposal to my insurance claim adjuster. I told her I will send you receipts for the materials to get reimbursed for that. The claim adjuster told me to put all in one so it will be easier for her to track. So I edited the proposal and submitted $12600 with materials as estimated because I wasn't sure how much materials the contractor will buy. I told the contractor right away that I submitted a $12600 dollar proposal to the insurance company. Also, I gave them the insurance company number and contractor number to the insurance company so they can talk to each other for transparency. They were adding stuff every day saying need this to make the scope of the work even more. I told the insurance company to call them and ask for a proper explanation as I am not an expert in this. As a part of the contract, final payment will be made upon completion of the work successfully (around $2000). But suddenly they were asking money now and then and with good faith, I paid them all money. I was out of the country and they pack up as soon as they got the payment and left the work with 55% remaining. When I called them why not come to work they said I did fraud by editing their proposal and they won't work. I told them you were informed about the updated proposal. I called the insurance company the right way and explained them. The insurance company apologized for the miscommunication and asked to submit the receipts for the materials. when I asked the contractor to return the payment for the job they didn't complete now they are keep threatening to take me to court every time I ask for money. I kept the contactor in CC when I email the insurance company and sent them all evidence that they were aware of the updated proposal and I never lied or ask them to lie. I sent all screenshots of our conversions to the insurance company. The insurance company asked them to explain how much work they have done but they are not replying to their emails instead keep sending me texts about taking me to court. I want to know should I get a lawyer? The insurance company had both proposals (initial and updated ones) since the beginning of the project. I have done nothing wrong knowingly or have anything bad in my heart. But should I worry about anything or talk to a lawyer? 

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Originally posted by @David Avery:

Of course you meant well and paid them to do the work.  Of course you did nothing wrong.

Well except for paying up front for work that was not yet done....a major faux pas and a large part of the problem....if she hadn't done that we wouldn't be having this conversation.....

OP, They are not going to sue you or take you to court. Where? Small Claims? Civil?

No, they are just bluffing and bullying you. If anything, you could/should be taking them to Small Claims Court....

Your insurance company really should be taking care of you better than this, I'm shocked they are leaving you to pursue this.

I would contact your State Contrs License Board and submit a complaint. Then contact the Bond Company and go after their Bond, that'll get you $15k (you may have to have a judgement first, depending on the state)

Consult your Contract and SOW to make sure that you are on solid ground, also check the Change Orders you signed when all those changes were made.

Please tell us that a) They are a licensed/bonded/insured Contractor, b) you have a properly signed contract c) the Change Orders were specific and signed by both parties.....

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Flipper/Rehabber · Phoenix Arizona · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 686 votes
    4y

    Of course you meant well and paid them to do the work.  Of course you did nothing wrong.

    Did you buy the property recently?

    If so did you work with your Real Estate agent to buy the house?

    That agent will direct you to the Contractors division to file your complaint and start that process.

    Hopefully the contractors understand the your going to move forward with the actions to get this issue

    resolved and if needs be both the division of contractors and a very good attorney will be involved and a very 

    honest review on there web site.

    Starters!!!

    I am hoping the BP community will jump in and give you some great suggestions .

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @David Avery:

    Of course you meant well and paid them to do the work.  Of course you did nothing wrong.

    Well except for paying up front for work that was not yet done....a major faux pas and a large part of the problem....if she hadn't done that we wouldn't be having this conversation.....

    OP, They are not going to sue you or take you to court. Where? Small Claims? Civil?

    No, they are just bluffing and bullying you. If anything, you could/should be taking them to Small Claims Court....

    Your insurance company really should be taking care of you better than this, I'm shocked they are leaving you to pursue this.

    I would contact your State Contrs License Board and submit a complaint. Then contact the Bond Company and go after their Bond, that'll get you $15k (you may have to have a judgement first, depending on the state)

    Consult your Contract and SOW to make sure that you are on solid ground, also check the Change Orders you signed when all those changes were made.

    Please tell us that a) They are a licensed/bonded/insured Contractor, b) you have a properly signed contract c) the Change Orders were specific and signed by both parties.....

  • Member since 2021 · 14 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @David Avery:

    Of course you meant well and paid them to do the work.  Of course you did nothing wrong.

    Did you buy the property recently?

    If so did you work with your Real Estate agent to buy the house?

    That agent will direct you to the Contractors division to file your complaint and start that process.

    Hopefully the contractors understand the your going to move forward with the actions to get this issue

    resolved and if needs be both the division of contractors and a very good attorney will be involved and a very 

    honest review on there web site.

    Starters!!!

    I am hoping the BP community will jump in and give you some great suggestions .

    Thank you for the comment. This is my first time home purchase so I am completely new. Some of the payments I made using a credit card and I called the credit card company and explained, they opened a dispute to recover $2600. Not sure about the final outcome. One of my friends who is a Handyman told me that if it's less than $5000, going to court and hiring a lawyer won't be worth the time and hassle. I found them from craigslist and asked them if they are insured and licensed. They said yes but never gave me any documents. On the proposal, I have their company name and address. That's all I have. I made a huge mistake by not checking their website or doing research enough. I don't know going to contractors' divisions and not being able to give enough info would help. Now when I edited/updated their proposal and submitted it to insurance just told them via text message not to take their sign on it. 

  • Member since 2021 · 14 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:
    Originally posted by @David Avery:

    Of course you meant well and paid them to do the work.  Of course you did nothing wrong.

    Well except for paying up front for work that was not yet done....a major faux pas and a large part of the problem....if she hadn't done that we wouldn't be having this conversation.....

    OP, They are not going to sue you or take you to court. Where? Small Claims? Civil?

    No, they are just bluffing and bullying you. If anything, you could/should be taking them to Small Claims Court....

    Your insurance company really should be taking care of you better than this, I'm shocked they are leaving you to pursue this.

    I would contact your State Contrs License Board and submit a complaint. Then contact the Bond Company and go after their Bond, that'll get you $15k (you may have to have a judgement first, depending on the state)

    Consult your Contract and SOW to make sure that you are on solid ground, also check the Change Orders you signed when all those changes were made.

    Please tell us that a) They are a licensed/bonded/insured Contractor, b) you have a properly signed contract c) the Change Orders were specific and signed by both parties.....

     Thank you for your input. They told me they are licensed and insured but never gave me proof. They are pathogenic liars and I am 100% sure they lied about this as well. I have signed the contract. The change I did I just told them via text but didn't take their signature on it. They also hired a subcontractor who damaged the tub while installing the tub on the wall and the drywall around that area. All the materials they showed receipt I only found 4 bottles of silicone in the garage. Everything else they took back. They damaged 4 boxes of tiles. You are right about the insurance they could help me more. But the adjuster said they can't give me legal advice. If I want to do something I can take them to small claim court. I am pretty much sure they don't have any bond whatsoever. Even when I paid them some with the credit card on the statement it showed cornerstone plumbing. But they don't have any plumbing licenses. From the beginning, they were lying and my mistake I didn't do enough due diligence. I don't know if I have so many options left on my table. All the plumbing work they have done was not meet city code. They used so many shark bites 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Phoenix Arizona · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 686 votes
    4y

    Insurance Fraud is a  high conviction rate. That would be your best bet.  High an attorney and your out $2500 in retainer fee and $300 for the first hour and $400 for every letter they send.

    Small Claim court,  they won't even show,  they are probably out of state.  Even if they showed you would still have to collect.  I think Small claim court is a waist of time with an shady people.

    If they are not legit with your state on the contracting portions, you have no angle there.

    Go with your insurance angle!

    Never pay anyone all up front and have someone in the area to be your eyes!

    They totally ripped you off and they probably do it to several people and then the move to another area/state.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Phoenix Arizona · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 686 votes
    4y

    By the way, is it fair to ask what State this happened in?

    My guess, Florida or California! ?

  • Member since 2021 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    4y

    Insurance companies have 3 intentions, DELAY, DENY, DEFEND. You are doing the right thing but unfortunately your insurance company does not have your best interest. Don’t we wish it was that easy, submit proposals and get paid for it, right? Wrong. They are doing anything possible to pay very minimal or not pay at all. The adjusters are incentivized to do this. Also, most of the time there is a huge disconnect between the contractors and the insurance adjusters. Sometimes contractors write up proposals and all work is included in one lump some. How is this a problem? Coverage. Insurance companies won’t pay for those proposals because they specifically ONLY pay for line items that are covered under your policy. These line items have to be from the direct loss and part of the proper method of repair. Insurance companies require a detailed itemized estimate used by Xactimate or Simsol or any estimating program capable of creating such reports. Even after sending in an itemized estimate the way you’re suppose to, they still are looking for ways to delay the claim, so don’t be surprised when they want to send an adjuster for a reinspection once you submit an itemized estimate. For more information on proper claim handling, you should consider contacting a Public Insurance Adjuster, someone that represents your best interest when filing a claim. For more information visit www.peninsulapublicadjusters.com

  • Member since 2021 · 14 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @David Avery:

    By the way, is it fair to ask what State this happened in?

    My guess, Florida or California! ?

    Dallas, TX. But the insurance company is from California(HIPPO)

  • Member since 2021 · 14 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Javier Ramirez:

    Insurance companies have 3 intentions, DELAY, DENY, DEFEND. You are doing the right thing but unfortunately your insurance company does not have your best interest. Don’t we wish it was that easy, submit proposals and get paid for it, right? Wrong. They are doing anything possible to pay very minimal or not pay at all. The adjusters are incentivized to do this. Also, most of the time there is a huge disconnect between the contractors and the insurance adjusters. Sometimes contractors write up proposals and all work is included in one lump some. How is this a problem? Coverage. Insurance companies won’t pay for those proposals because they specifically ONLY pay for line items that are covered under your policy. These line items have to be from the direct loss and part of the proper method of repair. Insurance companies require a detailed itemized estimate used by Xactimate or Simsol or any estimating program capable of creating such reports. Even after sending in an itemized estimate the way you’re suppose to, they still are looking for ways to delay the claim, so don’t be surprised when they want to send an adjuster for a reinspection once you submit an itemized estimate. For more information on proper claim handling, you should consider contacting a Public Insurance Adjuster, someone that represents your best interest when filing a claim. For more information visit www.peninsulapublicadjusters.com

     you are absolutely right. 

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @David Avery:

    1) Small Claim court,  they won't even show,  they are probably out of state.  Even if they showed you would still have to collect.  I think Small claim court is a waist of time with an shady people.

    2) If they are not legit with your state on the contracting portions, you have no angle there.

    #1 - That is ok if they don't show, then she will get an easy judgement. May not get any money right away, but once that judgement is recorded, it follows them forever. Next time they go to buy a new truck - there it is sitting on their credit. New house? Nope. Refi? Nope.

    #2 - It is illegal to operate as a Contractor without the appropriate license. Even more important to report them to the State License Board

    She actually  has a lot of power to ruin these guys.....

  • Member since 2021 · 14 posts · 5 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:
    Originally posted by @David Avery:

    1) Small Claim court,  they won't even show,  they are probably out of state.  Even if they showed you would still have to collect.  I think Small claim court is a waist of time with an shady people.

    2) If they are not legit with your state on the contracting portions, you have no angle there.

    #1 - That is ok if they don't show, then she will get an easy judgement. May not get any money right away, but once that judgement is recorded, it follows them forever. Next time they go to buy a new truck - there it is sitting on their credit. New house? Nope. Refi? Nope.

    #2 - It is illegal to operate as a Contractor without the appropriate license. Even more important to report them to the State License Board

    She actually  has a lot of power to ruin these guys.....

    You are right. Now 55% remaining work is about $3800 dollar they suppose to return. I file a dispute with a credit card to recover $2600 out of it. If successful the difference remains 1200 dollars. If I go the legal action route not sure it will be worth it. But I will consult with a lawyer as well to make sure they can't screw over other people in the future. Thank you for your valuable input.

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    I hate to say this, but the contractors board is a joke. They wont really do anything and if you want to go after a bond you need to hire a attorney *after* you go thru all the contractor board rigamarole.  I hav e a half finished kitchen/bath rehab (my own home) and I have not yet been able to get a refund from the contractor to get the work done by someone else and its been 2 years.  I of course am now suing them but that is costing $$$ and time. So who knows if I will ever get my $$ back (NEVER pay for a job until its done right and 100% complete I made that mistake and now feel I am owed 20-30K)...

    The OP needs to hire an atty right now and have them send a threatening letter.  

  • Raleigh, NC · Member since 2017 · 347 posts · 94 votes
    4y

    @Bruce Woodruff

    Do you think they would get a bond if the original estimate was 7k....

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Mary M.:

    I hate to say this, but the contractors board is a joke. 

    Not in California. For all the state's numerous faults their CSLB is pretty scary. I don't know about Texas...

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Chris C.:

    @Bruce Woodruff

    Do you think they would get a bond if the original estimate was 7k....

    Depends. In California, once you got a judgement, you could go to the Bond Company and attach the bond for the amount of the judgement...

  • Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    4y

    @Bruce Woodruff in Oregon you must go thru the contractors board and first is a letter sent and give contractor 30 days to respond, then you get a mediation. If the CG and the client can not reach an agreement (in my situation we did not) I then have to go hire an attorney and go to court to get access to his bond. this so far has cost me $5,000 and I am no where near done. So....  while it may be a good option for high $$ conflicts and GCs that are afraid of the board, not so much for lower amounts and stubborn GCs. 

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