I got a licensed, bonded and insured electrician who I am planning on hiring to upgrade my electrical panel from an old fuse box to a breaker system. He stated to me that he will not pull a permit because the city inspector will begin to inspect every electrical aspect of the house. He said that he is licensed and insured so if anything goes wrong he would be liable. This is the first time I’ve had to do any project that required a permit, any advice?

The reason for a permit is for liability reasons.  Now what happens if you were to sell it?  The inspector for the new owner could call out the panel for not being permitted.  The permit is a few hundred dollars  and i have not seen where they call out other parts.  AT MOST i have had them test my outlets and find that it didnt have a ground and the fix for that is a ARC Fault/GFCI Breaker on that circuit.  

Im guessing he isn't going to bring the panel to code... He should be installing all ARC fault breakers for ALL outlets that are in the living quarters and are 110v circuits.  Now if your city has adopted NEC 2017 then ALL circuits including the fridge/mircowave will need to be on those same breakers.  The difference in cost is... 5.99 ea to 45.00 ea breaker. 

Hi Rousner,

No permit, what if the place burns to the ground from an electrical fire. Will insurance cover it? Who will the court hold liable if someone is injured or killed in the fire? Permits and inspections exist for a reason.

The old fuse system probably has no ground wires in the walls, even if the outlets are 3 prong, and that might be what he's getting at. Extra cost to rewire the house to (safe) modern electrical standards.

GFI's in the bathroom, grounded receptacles, more circuits, etc...

Place probably needs a rewire to pass code.

I would not have this done without a permit.

Good Luck!

No ticky, no laundry...get the permit and another electrician.  It's the only way to protect yourself. 

If he was adding a receptacle or light fixture somewhere, I'd probably agree that a permit isn't needed.  Note that some areas require a permit if you add a receptacle (which I think is a bit excessive).

But anyway, a panel replacement is a significant project.  I would make sure he gets a permit. Actually, I'd be willing to bet that he's actually not licensed or it's expired.  

Most inspectors will only inspect what's on the permit.  They don't expect you to upgrade the entire house just for one item.  (There are some exceptions in some locales for things like smoke detectors)

Hi Rousner,

I am a licensed electrician (NJ) and you definitely want to avoid any electrician that doesn't want a permit for this type of work. While ARC fault breakers are required in all new construction, or in adding new circuits, replacement panels are not generally required to have ARC fault breakers because they won't work in most cases so that should not be his issue. 

Whenever I give a quote and the homeowner tells me 'The last guy said I didn't need a permit' I caution the customer they're opening themselves to a potential problem. One issue is when you go to sell the house. If a CO is required and work has been done it will halt the sale of your house. 

Do yourself a favor and get an electrician who will fill out the permit and submit it to the town. It's your only way to know it will be inspected and the work will meet code.

August Costanzo

Hi Rousner,

I am a licensed electrician (NJ) and you definitely want to avoid any electrician that doesn't want a permit for this type of work. While ARC fault breakers are required in all new construction, or in adding new circuits, replacement panels are not generally required to have ARC fault breakers because they won't work in most cases so that should not be his issue. 

Whenever I give a quote and the homeowner tells me 'The last guy said I didn't need a permit' I caution the customer they're opening themselves to a potential problem. One issue is when you go to sell the house. If a CO is required and work has been done it will halt the sale of your house. 

Do yourself a favor and get an electrician who will fill out the permit and submit it to the town. It's your only way to know it will be inspected and the work will meet code.

August Costanzo

if you have to get inspectors in for every little thing your going to broke because they will surely go out of their way to cover their butt and stick it to you . If you can avoid that I would consider going around permits everytime . If the guy is licensed certified with a proven track record of quality work you will be fine but I don’t invest in high end homes either a lot of my stuff is 100+ years old with knob and tube

@Dennis M. Yea I was worried about that as well. Do you think the inspector will look at other things or will they only inspect the panel that was upgraded?

Check to see if the guy is licensed, go to your state license lookup, it online and see if he's really licensed.   I bet he's not.  Also get a copy of his insurance and have you added as loss payee.  Then you will see if he real or not.

I hate permits more than anyone else, but on a rental property I would pull a permit every time.  My own house, I never pull permits.  But for a clients house, I pull a permit every time.

Originally posted by @Rousner Ermonfils :

@Dennis M. Yea I was worried about that as well. Do you think the inspector will look at other things or will they only inspect the panel that was upgraded?

 Think about his ( inspector) job and the liability on him if he passes something that is iffy and it causes a fire or a shock . He’s going to cover his butt everytime and that means citing you for anything remotely in the gray area . He is paid handsomely to find problems not for finding solutions for you