Jumping back in to Real Estate, wow how the world has changed!

Jumping back in to Real Estate, wow how the world has changed!

Member since 2022 · 12 posts · 9 votes

Hi BP, I am not new but haven't been very active on this forum. I had some past rental property investments deals, but those are all sold/gone years ago and I have been focused on my family and W2 career in the recent past. I looked a few years ago to jumping back in but my network is very dried up and the DFW area was just too expensive ( in my opinion). I am still wrapping my head around the fact that I may never see 100K decent turn key rentals for 3.5% ever again. Any advice to getting back into it? I am thinking of saving up and buying my first deal cash or at least heavy down payment to avoid the internest rates and create instant good cash flow. I am also considering investin out of state in turn key rentals. I looked at rent to retire, anyone have experience with those guys? THanks for the help, if anyone has good cash flow market they want to share, I am looking for my first ( in a long time) deal this year by Q4. SFR or duplex, cash flow is king for me, plan to hold long term so good market economics is also important. Thanks

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Drew SygitBusiness Member
Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
1y

@Tammy Lewis

Recommend you first figure out the property Class you want to invest in, THEN figure out the corresponding location/neighborhoods to invest in.

Why is Property Class so important for investors to understand and apply in their investing strategies?

Because the Property Class dictates the Class of the tenant pool that the property will attract.

The Tenant Class greatly impacts rental income stability and property maintenance/damage by tenants.

Both Property Class and Tenant Class affect what type of contractors, handymen and property management companies will work on a property.

If you buy & renovate a property in Class D area to Class A standards, what Tenant Class will rent it?

Or, if you put several Class D tenants in a Class A four-plex, what do you think will happen to the property?

So, if you fail to apply the correct assumptions to a property, your expectations won’t be met and it may even be a financial disaster.

We use the following to rank Property Classes, in order of importance:

  • Property Tenant Pool: closely linked to location, but not always.
  • Property Location: closely linked to tenant pool, but not always.
  • Property Condition & Amenities: it’s important to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood.”

Key metrics for each Property Class:

Class A Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 680+, no convictions/evictions in last 7 years.
Tenant Default: 0-5% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class A rents are too high and won’t be approved.
Vacancies: 5-10%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.

Class B Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 620-680, some blemishes, no convictions/evictions in last 5 years.
Tenant Default
: 5-10% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Vacancies
: 10-15%, depending on market conditions.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 1-3 years for positive cashflow, balanced amounts of relative rent & value appreciation.
Section 8: Class B rents are usually too high for the Section 8 program.

Class C Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 3 years. Verifying recent 2-years of rental history very important! Same for 2-years of job/income stability.
Tenant Default: 10-20% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
Section 8: Class C rents usually meet program requirements, proper screening still recommended.
Vacancies: 10-20%, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Should cashflow immediately, at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation.

Class D Properties:
Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 12 months. Verifying last 2-years of rental history and income/employment extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.
Tenant Default: 20-30% probability of eviction or early lease termination.

Section 8: Class D rents meet program requirements, often challenges to pass Section 8 inspection.
Vacancies: 20%+, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation.

Where did we get our FICO credit score information from?

Check out this chart:

FICO Score

Pct of Population

Default Probability

800 or more

13.00%

1.00%

750-799

27.00%

1.00%

700-749

18.00%

4.40%

650-699

15.00%

8.90%

600-649

12.00%

15.80%

550-599

8.00%

22.50%

500-549

5.00%

28.40%

Less than 499

2.00%

41.00%

Source: Fair Isaac Company

Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.

Metro Detroit has 132 cities, the City of Detroit 183 Neighborhoods, which we’re analyzing and classifying. Check out the map on our website where we’ve made this all easy to follow.

We can also share numerous examples of properties & portfolios we’ve assisted investors with!

DM us if you’d like to discuss this logical approach in greater detail!

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Rental Property Investor · New Braunfels, TX · Member since 2022 · 409 posts · 408 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Tammy Lewis:

    Hi BP, I am not new but haven't been very active on this forum. I had some past rental property investments deals, but those are all sold/gone years ago and I have been focused on my family and W2 career in the recent past. I looked a few years ago to jumping back in but my network is very dried up and the DFW area was just too expensive ( in my opinion). I am still wrapping my head around the fact that I may never see 100K decent turn key rentals for 3.5% ever again. Any advice to getting back into it? I am thinking of saving up and buying my first deal cash or at least heavy down payment to avoid the internest rates and create instant good cash flow. I am also considering investin out of state in turn key rentals. I looked at rent to retire, anyone have experience with those guys? THanks for the help, if anyone has good cash flow market they want to share, I am looking for my first ( in a long time) deal this year by Q4. SFR or duplex, cash flow is king for me, plan to hold long term so good market economics is also important. Thanks

    Search this forum. Lots of posts about rent to retirement. 
  • Todd AndersonPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Cape Coral, FL · Member since 2023 · 392 posts · 175 votes
    1y

    @Tammy Lewis,

    Welcome back! There is no doubt that things have changed in the REI world. But on that point things are always changing we just need to find where it is going.

    When I work talk with investors we work hard to try to solve for there problems in the current market.  For someone like you who has a W-2 to concentrate on a turnkey solution might be something to look in to. I would also suggest looking into a build to rent situation.  Many of the investors in your situation appreciate the lower and predictable maintenance that come with a new property.

    The other major problem that this type of investment solves for is the interest rates.  We are maytimes able to offer rates below 4%

    Good luck getting back into the game and let me know if you have more questions.  

  • Jimmy LieuBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Columbus, OH · Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Tammy Lewis:

    Hi BP, I am not new but haven't been very active on this forum. I had some past rental property investments deals, but those are all sold/gone years ago and I have been focused on my family and W2 career in the recent past. I looked a few years ago to jumping back in but my network is very dried up and the DFW area was just too expensive ( in my opinion). I am still wrapping my head around the fact that I may never see 100K decent turn key rentals for 3.5% ever again. Any advice to getting back into it? I am thinking of saving up and buying my first deal cash or at least heavy down payment to avoid the internest rates and create instant good cash flow. I am also considering investin out of state in turn key rentals. I looked at rent to retire, anyone have experience with those guys? THanks for the help, if anyone has good cash flow market they want to share, I am looking for my first ( in a long time) deal this year by Q4. SFR or duplex, cash flow is king for me, plan to hold long term so good market economics is also important. Thanks

    Hey Tammy!! Welcome back to the game! Totally get where you’re coming from—DFW has gotten super pricey and those sub-100K turnkey days are feeling like a distant memory in a lot of markets. Sounds like you’re thinking through it the right way though, especially with the focus on cash flow and long-term fundamentals. If you’re open to out-of-state, I’d definitely recommend taking a close look at Columbus, Ohio. A lot of investors are shifting their attention here because the macro picture is really strong—population is growing fast, job growth is solid, and there’s a ton of development happening with companies like Intel, Amazon, Google, Honda, Facebook, Anduril, Microsoft, LG, etc. It’s still landlord-friendly and you can find solid SFRs or small multis in the $120–180K range that hit the 1% rule and cash flow day one. Plus, because the city is growing so fast, there’s great long-term equity potential too. We’re seeing both newer investors and folks like yourself who are jumping back in after a break, and they’re finding a sweet spot here between affordability, cash flow, and appreciation upside. Happy to connect and answer any questions you have! 

  • Melissa JusticeBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2024 · 518 posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    @Tammy Lewis,

    Welcome back to the game! I totally understand how tough it can be jumping back in,especially with how pricing has changed in markets like DFW.

    I'm actually an Investment Strategist with Rent to Retirement, and turnkey out-of-state rentals are exactly what we specialize in. We help investors like you find fully renovated or new-build SFRs and duplexes in cash-flowing markets across the Midwest and Southeast-places where your capital can still stretch and create strong returns even in today’s rate environment.

    We work in landlord-friendly states and focus on markets with:
    -Strong rental demand
    -Great price-to-rent ratios
    -Solid long-term fundamentals (population growth, job diversity, etc.)
    -Whether you're buying in cash or leveraging financing, we help with the entire process-from sourcing vetted properties and connecting you with local teams (PMs, lenders, insurers) to ensuring you’re set up for long-term success.
    -We have hundreds of 5-star reviews on BiggerPockets and the BBB, and a lot of our clients are busy professionals just like you who want to build wealth passively without the guesswork.

    Here are some threads to help with your research:

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/765347-rent-to-retirement-review

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/1116050-a-huge-win-with-cori-from-rent-to-retirement

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/850/topics/895660-my-first-investment-property-an-out-of-state-deal

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/88/topics/1047543-big-profits-from-new-construction-sfr-build-in-cape-coral-fl

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/983659-first-investment-property-with-rent-to-retirement?

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/12/topics/1122318-quality-turnkey-companies?highlight_post=6413855&page=1

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/92/topics/929410-rent-to-retirement-updates?highlight_post=5508807&page=1#p5508807

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/business/page/3497

    https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/ZacharyCole/references

    If you'd like to explore a few cash-flowing deals or talk strategy for your Q4 goal, happy to connect or point you to a few of our best-performing markets!

    Best of luck,

    Melissa

  • Kerlous TadresBusiness Member
    Realtor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2023 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    Totally get where you’re coming from, Tammy! Those sub-$100K turnkey deals with great rates are long gone, but solid cash-flow plays still exist if you shift focus. I’d look into markets like Huntsville, AL, or parts of Central FL, where you can still find SFRs or duplexes under $200K with strong rent-to-price ratios and landlord-friendly laws. Buying cash or heavy down is smart in this rate environment, just make sure the market has long-term job and population growth. Turnkey can work, but vet the operators carefully. Local investor agents often find better deals off-market or light rehab with more upside.

    Kerlous Tadres | Reafco Real Estate541 Reviews
  • Preston DeanBusiness Member
    Realtor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2021 · 779 posts · 368 votes
    1y

    Hi @Tammy Lewis

    If you are looking to get into a flip and use HML I would go for that. Also if you're looking for more turn key maybe look into new builds as they still give incentives for investors in some areas.

    United Real Estate DFW Properties 565 Reviews
  • Lindsay DavisBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2019 · 327 posts · 203 votes
    1y

    @Tammy Lewis,

    @Kerlous Tadres has some good recommendations. I’d personally say, though, that sub-$200,000 deals in Huntsville proper are probably behind us. However, if you’re willing to consider nearby areas—including places like Arab (30 miles south of downtown Huntsville) and Cullman, located 55 miles south of downtown Huntsville—you can find deals that are well below $200,000.

    Another bonus: Cullman’s growing a lot at the moment, so that could be a potential tailwind for rents growing froward.

  • Investor · Texas City, TX · Member since 2018 · 54 posts · 22 votes
    1y

    Welcome back, Tammy! Be sure to review all offers from various turnkey providers and realtors, but always run your own numbers. Don’t depend solely on their proforma.

    There are plenty of online calculators you can use, like those on BP, Baselane, rollytally.com, and Calculator.net.

  • Member since 2022 · 12 posts · 9 votes
    1y

    Thanks everyone for the great advice, Lots of good replies. I will dig into a few markets and start crunching some numbers. Right Now I hear a lot about IN, AL, OH. Any investor friendly agents in those area that are interested in working with me, please feel free to reach out. I am working on defining my buy box and would appreciate any market specific information. Looking for the more up and comping areas that are currently affordable but have that good growth potentional (Suburbs of larger markets, B Class Neighborhood, less than $200k, as close to turn key as possible, but willing to consider small rehabs if I can get the right connections build out since I am out of state.)Thanks again everyone! 

  • Investor · Arroyo Grande, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    Hey Tammy — welcome back! Totally hear you on the shift in rates and pricing. It’s wild how different the landscape feels even just compared to 2–3 years ago.

    If you're looking for strong cash flow and have the ability to buy in cash (or mostly cash), Detroit is absolutely still one of the best markets out there. I've been investing there since 2019 — built a 12-door portfolio using BRRRR — and now help out-of-state investors do the same through my team on the ground. We source off-market deals, manage renovations with contractors we've worked with for years, and offer in-house property management after stabilization.

    For context, we typically work with investors who have at least $90K+ in capital and are looking for value-add rentals (single-family or small multifamily). Most of our deals hit 1.2–1.5% rule after rehab and rent-up — and many of them are in C/C+ areas with long-term tenant demand and ongoing upside.

    You can learn more about what we do and read all my Detroit investing articles here:

    👉 https://www.buyingdetroitrealestate.com/detroit-real-estate-investing/

    And if you’re seriously considering Detroit and want to chat about your goals, you can grab a spot on my calendar here:

    📅 https://calendly.com/tbiziorek/invest-detroit

    Happy to help however I can — it’s a great time to be positioned with cash and long-term thinking.

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    1y

    @Tammy Lewis

    Recommend you first figure out the property Class you want to invest in, THEN figure out the corresponding location/neighborhoods to invest in.

    Why is Property Class so important for investors to understand and apply in their investing strategies?

    Because the Property Class dictates the Class of the tenant pool that the property will attract.

    The Tenant Class greatly impacts rental income stability and property maintenance/damage by tenants.

    Both Property Class and Tenant Class affect what type of contractors, handymen and property management companies will work on a property.

    If you buy & renovate a property in Class D area to Class A standards, what Tenant Class will rent it?

    Or, if you put several Class D tenants in a Class A four-plex, what do you think will happen to the property?

    So, if you fail to apply the correct assumptions to a property, your expectations won’t be met and it may even be a financial disaster.

    We use the following to rank Property Classes, in order of importance:

    • Property Tenant Pool: closely linked to location, but not always.
    • Property Location: closely linked to tenant pool, but not always.
    • Property Condition & Amenities: it’s important to, “Maintain to the Neighborhood.”

    Key metrics for each Property Class:

    Class A Properties:
    Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 680+, no convictions/evictions in last 7 years.
    Tenant Default: 0-5% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
    Section 8: Class A rents are too high and won’t be approved.
    Vacancies: 5-10%, depending on market conditions.
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 3-5 years for positive cashflow, but you get highest relative rent & value appreciation.

    Class B Properties:
    Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 620-680, some blemishes, no convictions/evictions in last 5 years.
    Tenant Default
    : 5-10% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
    Vacancies
    : 10-15%, depending on market conditions.
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, 1-3 years for positive cashflow, balanced amounts of relative rent & value appreciation.
    Section 8: Class B rents are usually too high for the Section 8 program.

    Class C Properties:
    Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores 560-620, many blemishes, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 3 years. Verifying recent 2-years of rental history very important! Same for 2-years of job/income stability.
    Tenant Default: 10-20% probability of eviction or early lease termination.
    Section 8: Class C rents usually meet program requirements, proper screening still recommended.
    Vacancies: 10-20%, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Should cashflow immediately, at the lower end of relative rent & value appreciation.

    Class D Properties:
    Tenant Pool: Majority of FICO scores under 560, little to no good tradelines, lots of collections & chargeoffs, but should have no convictions/evictions in last 12 months. Verifying last 2-years of rental history and income/employment extremely important to find the “best of the worst”.
    Tenant Default: 20-30% probability of eviction or early lease termination.

    Section 8: Class D rents meet program requirements, often challenges to pass Section 8 inspection.
    Vacancies: 20%+, depending on market conditions and tenant screening.
    Cashflow vs Appreciation: Typically, all cashflow with little, maybe even negative, relative rent & value appreciation.

    Where did we get our FICO credit score information from?

    Check out this chart:

    FICO Score

    Pct of Population

    Default Probability

    800 or more

    13.00%

    1.00%

    750-799

    27.00%

    1.00%

    700-749

    18.00%

    4.40%

    650-699

    15.00%

    8.90%

    600-649

    12.00%

    15.80%

    550-599

    8.00%

    22.50%

    500-549

    5.00%

    28.40%

    Less than 499

    2.00%

    41.00%

    Source: Fair Isaac Company

    Make sure you understand the Class of properties you are looking at and the corresponding results to expect.

    Metro Detroit has 132 cities, the City of Detroit 183 Neighborhoods, which we’re analyzing and classifying. Check out the map on our website where we’ve made this all easy to follow.

    We can also share numerous examples of properties & portfolios we’ve assisted investors with!

    DM us if you’d like to discuss this logical approach in greater detail!

  • Real Estate Agent · Washington, DC · Member since 2025 · 157 posts · 77 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Tammy Lewis:

    Hi BP, I am not new but haven't been very active on this forum. I had some past rental property investments deals, but those are all sold/gone years ago and I have been focused on my family and W2 career in the recent past. I looked a few years ago to jumping back in but my network is very dried up and the DFW area was just too expensive ( in my opinion). I am still wrapping my head around the fact that I may never see 100K decent turn key rentals for 3.5% ever again. Any advice to getting back into it? I am thinking of saving up and buying my first deal cash or at least heavy down payment to avoid the internest rates and create instant good cash flow. I am also considering investin out of state in turn key rentals. I looked at rent to retire, anyone have experience with those guys? THanks for the help, if anyone has good cash flow market they want to share, I am looking for my first ( in a long time) deal this year by Q4. SFR or duplex, cash flow is king for me, plan to hold long term so good market economics is also important. Thanks


     Welcome back to the investor realm.  Those numbers are long gone or a unicorn these days.  DOn't let that deter you from achieving your dreams!

  • Samuel CoronadoPro Member
    Investor · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2016 · 348 posts · 182 votes
    1y

    Why did you sell back in the day? 

  • Member since 2022 · 12 posts · 9 votes
    1y

    Update... Got a deal in OKC

    I am working a deal in Edmond, OK. I have an agent who is helping me and doing a great job. New Construction, I am looking at 15 yr and break even scenario, I have plans to pay off the mtg as quickly as possible to turn this into real cash flow, but the appreciation is good for this area ( in my opinion). I would love if anyone has property mgmt options and insurance recommendations. I am looking for lease up only, as it is new constructions, so first year should be pretty easy going. and considering tornado alley, I need good insurance and reasonable rate. Any commentary is appreciate. Thanks everyone and so excited to get this story really going! 

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