Inexperienced landord, in over my head

Inexperienced landord, in over my head

Member since 2022 · 9 posts · 7 votes

This is my first time being a landlord and it's safe to say I'm not very good at it (yet). I came across Bigger Pockets a few months ago and am now seriously considering pursuing REI, but realize I need to change how I handle being a landlord. I'm happy to explain in more detail if needed, but the gist is that I rented a fixer upper that I bought (planning to flip) to a former high school friend who has trouble paying her rent almost every month. I've been renting to her since 2019. She has a 5 year lease with the option to buy. I clearly had no idea what I was doing, and thought it'd be an easy way to make some money while helping out a "friend" who was down on her luck. I didn't know anything about tenant screening and never considered that she'd be a nightmare to deal with. (I'm learning!)

She has rarely paid the rent on time and always has a long sob story that I seemingly fall for. But since the pandemic began she's not only been late on paying, but made partial payments and skipped entire months. Dealing with her has been incredibly stressful, so I was happy just to get anything, which I realize now was a bad mindset. Because of the eviction moratorium in NY I felt like there was nothing I could do, so I gave up asking her where the rent was and just hoped I'd get a check eventually. She applied for ERAP last fall and I received $5,500 in back rent in April. Unfortunately, this means that she cannot be evicted now for another year (maybe I'm lucky she's been paying rent at all). 

I just received July's rent check today but still haven't gotten June's. She says she mailed it out in June and had a long excuse for why she doesn't have the money order receipt anymore so she can't track it/cancel it. Basically she said that she sent the check and there was nothing more she can/would do about paying for June. I told her I'd like her to switch to online payments with Avail so that checks can't get lost in the mail anymore. Her response was that she doesn't trust the website because she's never heard of it, she doesn't have a checking account anyway, and won't pay the 3.5% fee to pay by credit card. 

I know I've handled her entire tenancy badly. So now I would love some advice on how to fix this mess I’m in. I feel like I've set a bad precedent and I'm not sure how to correct it, if I even can. I learned from some Bigger Pockets books about the importance of mailing late rent notices, which I'd never done before. Except that now that she can't be evicted for nonpayment for another 8 months, it's not like I can threaten to evict her if she keeps mailing the check late. Do I start sending them out anyway, just so there's a paper trail? Do I just wait it out and evict her once the moratorium is over next year (as I'm sure she'll continue paying late), and hope she keeps paying in the meantime? How do I handle late/nonpayments at a time when someone can't be evicted? Particularly the "lost" check for June? Is there some other more reliable way to get her to pay if she doesn't have a checking account? I do feel bad for her situation and don't want to have to evict her, but I don't know how to train her to be a better tenant, or if she's untrainable...I’m really at a loss for how to deal with her. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

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Bruce WoodruffPro Member
Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
4y
Quote from @Collin Wallace:

I am new to REI but how can the federal government legally keep you from evicting someone? Why do renters have such crazy protection? It seems simple to me. If they cant pay rent, kick them out of your house and throw their things on the street.


You are new, huh?....It's not the Feds, it's the states. Some states (the Blue ones) are very tenant friendly. Some, like yours, even make you pay someone to leave. Do a lot of research before you get involved in this business.....

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Real Estate Agent · Temple, TX · Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 700 votes
    4y

    Well on a positive note, you got started in REI which is further than most people will get. I would evict her as soon as I could. Lesson #1 is dont rent to your friends because of situations just like this, you will feel bad for asking for $ when they should feel bad for not paying rent.

    #2 With rentals in high demand, it would have been better to list it and screen the tenants to get a good paying tenant at top dollar.

    #3 If I felt like they were paying other things, such as shopping or eating out, before rent I would evict them immediately. 

    I feel pretty comfortable with my tenants even if they have a bad credit score because a logical person will pay their living expenses first and then use the rest to have fun with - even if they are living paycheck to paycheck.  

    Keep track of the late/nonpayments and make a spreadsheet. You will probably need this when you evict her (I have never had to do an eviction thankfully so I'm not sure.) 

    And Lastly, if you are going to flip a property, I would not put a tenant in there.  Flips should typically be short term as you cant predict the market conditions 2-5 years in the future and it could put you at risk if there were a crash. 

    Dont let this get you down. REI is a great avenue to build wealth and reach financial freedom!

  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    4y

    @Angela Persico  welcome to BP!  NY is a tough place to earn your stripes as a new LL, and as you are finding out not always a money maker. You can try investing out of state. Or take some LL education programs. Lots available with some google searches. Great coaching here and join a local LL group and go to meetings-like a 12 step program🤣. All the best!!

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    @Angela Persico  you probably know alot of your mistakes but first thing look at your lease, what does it say? Mine says rent will be applied to past due amounts first. So when she says June rent is missing, that isn't true. You apply the rent you received to June and July is now missing, that means she is behind 1 month on rent. You can't do much with that if you can't evict but you need to also get a lawyer on line because you are up for your first eviction with this tenant.  I would give the lawyer the lease and go from there. I am assuming you gave her a 5 year lease with option to buy with no fee and no agreed price?  If that is the case have the lawyer help you with the right steps along the way to get the property back.  You want to serve all applicable notices and if there are exceptions such as thing other then non-payment you can evict her for then I would pursue those.

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Angela Persico:

    I don't have time to read the other responses, so this may be a repeat.

    You're too emotionally involved and inexperienced. Your best option is to cut off all communication with the Tenant, hire an attorney, and let them negotiation early termination or move towards eviction. Attorneys don't operate on sob stories and they're emotionally uninvolved with the property, so they can handle this much better. Pay the price now and you'll have a huge weight off your shoulder when it's done.

    Another option is to hire a professional property manager. You managed on your own to save 10%, but it's probably cost you 2x - 3x that amount and it's added a ton of stress to your life. I've rescued many Landlords in situations like yours. I can typically get the tenant out in under 60 days, clean the place up, rent it for market rate, and make you more money in your first year than you ever have in the life of ownership . . . after paying my fees. If you intend to keep the property, I'd recommend using a good PM vs an attorney.

    Remember: cheaper doesn't mean you'll make more money.

    Start by going to www.narpm.org to search their directory of managers. These are professionals with additional training and a stricter code of ethics. It's no guarantee but it's a good place to start. You can also search Google and read reviews. Regardless of how you find them, try to interview at least three managers.

    1. Ask how many units they manage and how much experience they have. If it's a larger organization, feel free to inquire about their staff qualifications.

    2. Review their management agreement. Make sure it explicitly explains the process for termination if you are unhappy with their services, but especially if they violate the terms of your agreement.

    3. Understand the fees involved and calculate the total cost for an entire year of management so you can compare the different managers. It may sound nice to pay a 6% management fee but the extra fees can add up to be more than the other company that charges 10% with no additional fees. Fees should be clearly stated in writing, easy to understand, and justifiable. Common fees will include a set-up fee, leasing fee for each turnover or a lease renewal fee, marking up maintenance, retaining late fees, and more. If you ask the manager to justify a fee and he starts hemming and hawing, move on or require them to remove the fee. Don't be afraid to negotiate, particularly if you have a lot of rentals.

    4. Review their lease agreement and addenda. Think of all the things that could go wrong and see if the lease addresses them: unauthorized pets or tenants, early termination, security deposit, lease violations, late rent, eviction, lawn maintenance, parking, etc.

    5. Don't just read the lease! Ask the manager to explain their process for dealing with maintenance, late rent, evictions, turnover, etc. If they are professional, they can explain this quickly and easily. If they are VERY professional, they will have their processes in writing as verification that policies are enforced equally and fairly by their entire staff.

    6. Ask to speak with some of their current owners and current/former tenants. You can also check their reviews online at Google, Facebook, or Yelp. Just remember: most negative reviews are written by problematic tenants. The fact that a tenant is complaining online might be an indication the property manager dealt with them properly so be sure to ask the manager for their side of the story.

    7. Look at their marketing strategy. Are they doing everything they can to expose properties to the widest possible market? Are their listings detailed with good quality photos? Can they prove how long it takes to rent a vacant property?

    This isn't inclusive but should give you a good start. If you have specific questions about property management, I'll be happy to help!

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7247 Reviews
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    4y

    Either hire a property manager or start doing things differently.  Don't let her mail the cheques, tell her you are showing up at noon on the 1st of each month to pick up the money order.  can she show you a bank statement for June's rent showing she got a money order?  It would show up as a deduction from her bank account.

    Others have given great advice already.

  • Realtor · Riverside · Member since 2022 · 12 posts · 7 votes
    4y

    Hi Angela, 

    Yes it certainly sounds like you have your hands full! Being a landlord can be awfully time consuming, difficult, and confusing with such rapidly changing laws in this environment. Most owners reach out to us when they've just about had it and are done with everything and are ready to just call it quits. If your'e going to be doing this full-time then you are on the right track and you'll continue to learn difficult lessons quickly, but you'll get the hang of it eventually. If you are not going to be doing this full-time, I would save yourself the headache and hire a property manager with a good reputation. They'll save you a ton of time, alleviate stress, maximize your profit, and maintain your property. 

    Reach out if you need help!

    Sam 

  • Chris SeveneyBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Angela Persico:

    This is my first time being a landlord and it's safe to say I'm not very good at it (yet). I came across Bigger Pockets a few months ago and am now seriously considering pursuing REI, but realize I need to change how I handle being a landlord. I'm happy to explain in more detail if needed, but the gist is that I rented a fixer upper that I bought (planning to flip) to a former high school friend who has trouble paying her rent almost every month. I've been renting to her since 2019. She has a 5 year lease with the option to buy. I clearly had no idea what I was doing, and thought it'd be an easy way to make some money while helping out a "friend" who was down on her luck. I didn't know anything about tenant screening and never considered that she'd be a nightmare to deal with. (I'm learning!)

    She has rarely paid the rent on time and always has a long sob story that I seemingly fall for. But since the pandemic began she's not only been late on paying, but made partial payments and skipped entire months. Dealing with her has been incredibly stressful, so I was happy just to get anything, which I realize now was a bad mindset. Because of the eviction moratorium in NY I felt like there was nothing I could do, so I gave up asking her where the rent was and just hoped I'd get a check eventually. She applied for ERAP last fall and I received $5,500 in back rent in April. Unfortunately, this means that she cannot be evicted now for another year (maybe I'm lucky she's been paying rent at all). 

    I just received July's rent check today but still haven't gotten June's. She says she mailed it out in June and had a long excuse for why she doesn't have the money order receipt anymore so she can't track it/cancel it. Basically she said that she sent the check and there was nothing more she can/would do about paying for June. I told her I'd like her to switch to online payments with Avail so that checks can't get lost in the mail anymore. Her response was that she doesn't trust the website because she's never heard of it, she doesn't have a checking account anyway, and won't pay the 3.5% fee to pay by credit card. 

    I know I've handled her entire tenancy badly. So now I would love some advice on how to fix this mess I’m in. I feel like I've set a bad precedent and I'm not sure how to correct it, if I even can. I learned from some Bigger Pockets books about the importance of mailing late rent notices, which I'd never done before. Except that now that she can't be evicted for nonpayment for another 8 months, it's not like I can threaten to evict her if she keeps mailing the check late. Do I start sending them out anyway, just so there's a paper trail? Do I just wait it out and evict her once the moratorium is over next year (as I'm sure she'll continue paying late), and hope she keeps paying in the meantime? How do I handle late/nonpayments at a time when someone can't be evicted? Particularly the "lost" check for June? Is there some other more reliable way to get her to pay if she doesn't have a checking account? I do feel bad for her situation and don't want to have to evict her, but I don't know how to train her to be a better tenant, or if she's untrainable...I’m really at a loss for how to deal with her. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!


     get a property manager and have them deal with her. 

    7e investments53 Reviews
  • Homeowner · Joshua Tree, CA · Member since 2022 · 69 posts · 30 votes
    4y

    I am new to REI but how can the federal government legally keep you from evicting someone? Why do renters have such crazy protection? It seems simple to me. If they cant pay rent, kick them out of your house and throw their things on the street.

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    4y

    hire someone as you are incompetent as landlording

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    @Angela Persico  I am now seeing alot of comments about hiring a PM.  I don't think that will solve the issue.  I urge you at this point to hire a lawyer experienced in evictions and get this tenant out if you can.   Restart with a PM. @Nathan Gesner has great tips on how to select a PM. The length of your lease, the rent to own aspect and the fact she is not paying shouts lawyer. 

  • Member since 2022 · 9 posts · 7 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Collin Wallace:

    I am new to REI but how can the federal government legally keep you from evicting someone? Why do renters have such crazy protection? It seems simple to me. If they cant pay rent, kick them out of your house and throw their things on the street.


    It's definitely frustrating! We'll give you money to make up for your tenant not paying rent for the past year, but now you've got to deal with them not paying rent for another year...

  • Member since 2022 · 9 posts · 7 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Drew Sygit:

    hire someone as you are incompetent as landlording


     Thanks for your incredibly constructive feedback lol.

  • Investor · Phoenixville, PA · Member since 2019 · 31 posts · 26 votes
    4y

    Sounds like you're not willing to be the bad guy in this situation, which given your relationship is understandable.  Someone is going to have to be the bad guy.  If you can't do it I see two options to make someone else the bad guy, and both are going to cost you money:

    1. Interview PMs until you are confident you've found one who will fix the situation for you. or

    2. Sell the property with the tenant in place and make it the next landlord's problem.  Over 3 years, you've probably had decent appreciation even if the place isn't fully fixed up yet.


    Either way, you've learned why to not mix business and personal relationships, and you'll likely never make that mistake again.

  • Member since 2022 · 9 posts · 7 votes
    4y

    Thank you to everyone who provided feedback. I will certainly screen tenants going forward and don't plan on making these same mistakes again. As I said before, I had never planned on becoming a landlord back in 2019, so I definitely got in over my head trying to help someone out. And who could have seen the pandemic coming and how that would affect real estate, employment, and the ability to evict tenants? Now that I'm trying to take this more seriously and treat landlording like a business instead of a hobby, I'm hoping I will be more succesful going foward. Unfortunately, I set a bad precedent with this tenant that I'm struggling to fix. 

    For those saying to evict her, the big problem is that I can't evict her until next spring. She had been paying her rent every month (albeit late) up until the pandemic started. When she started having trouble paying, the eviction moratorium was in place and by applying for ERAP it extended the moratorium even longer. I think a property manager could be useful, just so that I don't have to have any direct contact with her, but since we can't threaten her with an immediate eviction, is that just a waste of money? At this point she's still making payments, and I'm concerned that if I push too hard she'll stop paying all together and there's nothing I can do. I'm actually amazed she is still paying, except that I think she's still hoping to buy the house at the end of all this. I guess I'll have to talk to my lawyer about the eviction process and how to keep track of non-payments.

    For those that don't have their tenants send checks through the mail, how do you receive the payment? Should I insist she mail it with some form of tracking? Or meet me in person? And how would you respond when she inevitably says, "I can't meet you today/this week," or "I don't have the money yet," when I can't tell her that if she doesn't start paying on time she'll be evicted? Just tell her that if the late payment every month continues after the moratorium ends that she'll be evicted at that point? This whole thing is such a mess. Thankfully I don't have a mortgage on this house and own it free and clear, but I really feel for the landlords struggling to pay their bills because of this.

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Collin Wallace:

    I am new to REI but how can the federal government legally keep you from evicting someone? Why do renters have such crazy protection? It seems simple to me. If they cant pay rent, kick them out of your house and throw their things on the street.


    You are new, huh?....It's not the Feds, it's the states. Some states (the Blue ones) are very tenant friendly. Some, like yours, even make you pay someone to leave. Do a lot of research before you get involved in this business.....

  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Angela Persico:

    For those that don't have their tenants send checks through the mail, how do you receive the payment? Should I insist she mail it with some form of tracking? Or meet me in person? And how would you respond when she inevitably says, "I can't meet you today/this week," or "I don't have the money yet," when I can't tell her that if she doesn't start paying on time she'll be evicted? Just tell her that if the late payment every month continues after the moratorium ends that she'll be evicted at that point? This whole thing is such a mess. 


    You are clearly not tough enough for this business. You may never be..... But for now, hire an attorney, like today....Then hire a Property Manager to get you through the next 8 months.

    Hopefully by not paying you in a timely manner, she has voided the contract she has with you regarding buying this house. You do have a contract, right?

  • Member since 2018 · 200 posts · 123 votes
    4y

    Try cash for keys.  Pay her to leave.  You may be money ahead in the long run.  If that works, then hire a PM or do a lot of research and connect with others that are successful landlords.  No sense re-inventing the wheel.  There are lots of smart people here that already have great systems.  If you decide to manage for yourself, you'll have to find a way to keep emotionally detached.  Good luck.  Please let me know if I can help. 

  • Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y
    Quote from @Angela Persico:

    This is my first time being a landlord and it's safe to say I'm not very good at it (yet). I came across Bigger Pockets a few months ago and am now seriously considering pursuing REI, but realize I need to change how I handle being a landlord. I'm happy to explain in more detail if needed, but the gist is that I rented a fixer upper that I bought (planning to flip) to a former high school friend who has trouble paying her rent almost every month. I've been renting to her since 2019. She has a 5 year lease with the option to buy. I clearly had no idea what I was doing, and thought it'd be an easy way to make some money while helping out a "friend" who was down on her luck. I didn't know anything about tenant screening and never considered that she'd be a nightmare to deal with. (I'm learning!)

    She has rarely paid the rent on time and always has a long sob story that I seemingly fall for. But since the pandemic began she's not only been late on paying, but made partial payments and skipped entire months. Dealing with her has been incredibly stressful, so I was happy just to get anything, which I realize now was a bad mindset. Because of the eviction moratorium in NY I felt like there was nothing I could do, so I gave up asking her where the rent was and just hoped I'd get a check eventually. She applied for ERAP last fall and I received $5,500 in back rent in April. Unfortunately, this means that she cannot be evicted now for another year (maybe I'm lucky she's been paying rent at all). 

    I just received July's rent check today but still haven't gotten June's. She says she mailed it out in June and had a long excuse for why she doesn't have the money order receipt anymore so she can't track it/cancel it. Basically she said that she sent the check and there was nothing more she can/would do about paying for June. I told her I'd like her to switch to online payments with Avail so that checks can't get lost in the mail anymore. Her response was that she doesn't trust the website because she's never heard of it, she doesn't have a checking account anyway, and won't pay the 3.5% fee to pay by credit card. 

    I know I've handled her entire tenancy badly. So now I would love some advice on how to fix this mess I’m in. I feel like I've set a bad precedent and I'm not sure how to correct it, if I even can. I learned from some Bigger Pockets books about the importance of mailing late rent notices, which I'd never done before. Except that now that she can't be evicted for nonpayment for another 8 months, it's not like I can threaten to evict her if she keeps mailing the check late. Do I start sending them out anyway, just so there's a paper trail? Do I just wait it out and evict her once the moratorium is over next year (as I'm sure she'll continue paying late), and hope she keeps paying in the meantime? How do I handle late/nonpayments at a time when someone can't be evicted? Particularly the "lost" check for June? Is there some other more reliable way to get her to pay if she doesn't have a checking account? I do feel bad for her situation and don't want to have to evict her, but I don't know how to train her to be a better tenant, or if she's untrainable...I’m really at a loss for how to deal with her. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

     PM Sent.   I can help you navigate the NY landlording land mines if you'd like.

    As triage you can subscribe and watch @Vitaliy Volpov's YouTube channel: "Succeed REI" and Matthew Lyman's "The Landlord Advocate" - both are specific to NYS and will be very useful as an "IV drip" while you learn through other means.

  • Rental Property Investor · Renton, WA · Member since 2022 · 10 posts · 4 votes
    4y

    @Bruce Woodruff Everyone starts somewhere, so she has that going on for her. Not everyone jumps in this game with enough education, or some just hope to make quick money. Both get burnt from what my research indicates.

    I am a new LL too in a blue state, but I did a ton of research before renting out, did thorough screening, and manage my rental myself in a class A neighborhood. My tenant had a higher credit score than myself.

    In this situation, @Angela, you got a few things right, namely you got started. A lot of great advice here already, I would say put your REI boots on, start being a professional, and hire help, namely the attorney and the PM. At one point decide enough is enough, and you don't deserve this much stress over a single property in your life.

    This person stopped being your friend a long time ago, I would say do the same. I had a similar situation with a roommate of mine before, and I use to stress too much. Since I moved out into a separate apartment, I have experienced so much peace.

    Just my 2 cents. I might be projecting, but this is what I would have done if I was in your situation. And before your next investment, educate yourself thoroughly. Or decide if REI is really the right thing for you. We are rooting for you!

  • South Holland, IL · Member since 2017 · 376 posts · 432 votes
    4y

    @Angela Persico

    Find a bank convenient to her and open a checking account. Have her deposit a money order and deduct the expense from her rent for the money order. There is NO excuse for her not making the payment at this point. If she balks, and you really can’t file eviction for non-payment until next year, You will have to wait her out until next year and be grateful you get anything from her. But I would not arouse her ire if I have to deal with her until next year. Handle her with soft gloves until you can evict or not renew her lease.

  • Investor · Member since 2021 · 591 posts · 695 votes
    4y

    @Angela Persico based on what you've told us, I think that your top priority should be to have this tenant leave ASAP and find a new, better tenant. The longer you allow this tenant to stay and keep missing payments, the worse the situation will become (and the more money you will lose).

    There are a  variety of ways to get rid of a tenant (eviction is one, but it's time consuming and can cost a lot, and you need to follow the law and local regulations).  Cash for keys may be a better option (pay the tenant to leave).

    I'm not sure hiring a property manager will solve your issues...Good PMs are very, very rare (and often, good PMs have no interest in taking on a single house with a deadbeat tenant and a distressed owner--they have bigger, better fish to fry). Moreover, finding, screening, and managing a PM (yes, you need to manage your manager) is challenging, and it often requires experience as a landlord/PM (an experienced landlord/PM is better able to screen PMs, find a competent PM, and manage that PM)...but, you are not an experienced landlord/PM, and it by your own admission, you're pretty bad at it...so, you're ill-equipped to find a good PM and manage them through a solution to your challenging problem....  We all hear horror stories of inexperienced landlords hiring inexperienced and incompetent PMs, and it costing the LL a ton of time, money and frustration--in your situation, a PM is almost as likely to ADD to your problems as they are to solve your problems. ...not to mention the fact that if you did get a PM, you'd be immediately handing a them a big problem to solve (a problem you created), and most PMs do not have the experience, or the incentive to solve such a big problem for a brand new client that they have no history with, who only owns one property.  If I were a PM, why would I want to put in the serious effort, and expose myself to potentially serious liability, to solve this giant problem you created, when I'm barely making any money in the process and it's clear that you would be a small time, high-maintenance client? PMs want big time clients with large portfolios, and they want those portfolios and the tenants to be as low-maintenance  as possible, and they want the LL to be as low-maintenance as possible (you're literally the polar opposite of all that, based on your story). To a PM, you will be viewed as low profit, high maintenance, and high liability, and it's very unlikely they will have sufficient incentive to solve this problem for you (even if they have the experience to solve it--which they may not).

    Even if you could magically find a PM who is experienced enough, and motivated enough to solve your problem for you, you need to take responsibility for this situation, take a role in solving this problem, and learn from it so that it never happens again. If you plan to keep investing in real estate and continue being a landlord, then you need to quickly improve your approach to avoid these types of problems, and having someone else (like a PM) solve your problems for you doesn't make you a better landlord...if you don't take responsibility for this situation and learn how to solve it, and learn how to avoid it in the future, then this type of problem will re-occur (even if you do have a great PM--because again, you need to manage the PM, and if you're not a competent LL, then your management of the PM will also be incompetent). The PM is NOT a magic-bullet solution, because if the owner is an incompetent landlord, then they will be incompetent at managing their PM, and as a result, the PM will be ineffective at solving tough problems.

    How do you become a competent LL? There are countless books, podcasts, forum posts, youtube vids, articles, etc. to learn from--obviously, BP is an excellent source for much of this info. Read up, and try to learn from other people's mistakes as much as possible.

    How do you fix this problem with your tenant? I think the first step is to approach the tenant and say "Look; this clearly isn't working out. You need to move to a place that better fits your needs. How soon can you move out, and what do you need in order to move out?" and see what they say, and then work toward some agreement for them to leave that works for you....If they DON'T agree to leave, it's probably time to begin the eviction process. If they DO agree to leave, write up a new contract that cancels the existing lease, and stipulates the exact terms of when and how they will leave, and what financial transactions will occur. This new contract also needs to explicitly describe what will happen if they don't abide by the contract's terms--for instance, what will happen if they don't leave the property in good condition by the agreed upon date, or don't pay you the agreed upon fees by the agreed upon dates? ...this contract also needs to include agreed upon terms for payment (will they pay you their outstanding debts, and if so, when and how will they pay? will they be liable for late fees? are you waiving some or all of their outstanding debts to incentivize them to leave? what is the status of their deposit?, etc.)  

    To quote one of the greatest movies ever, you need to "make 'em an offer they can't refuse" and incentivize them to vacate and abide by the new terms you put in your new contract.  You could incentivize them to leave and abide by the new contract in many ways. For instance, you could agree to cancel some of their outstanding debts, and/or you could make it clear that their security deposit will be withheld if they don't leave under your terms, and/or make it clear you will file a lawsuit to recover the money they owe you if they don't meet your conditions, and/or get a collection agency involved, and/or you can make it clear there will be an eviction for non-compliance with the contract (among many other methods)...I would also suggest reading up on cash for keys, and seeing whether that strategy could work...talk to the tenant to get an understanding of why they are staying, what things would prevent them from leaving, what things would incentivize them to leave, etc.  ...ultimately, you need to create a new agreement (in a new contract), where the option of leaving and abiding by the terms of your new contract is MUCH more appealing to the tenant than the option of staying and/or violating the terms of your new contract.  However, before you pursue ANY of these options, you need to educate yourself on the relevant laws/regulations to make sure you're not doing anything illegal--a decent lawyer can help you understand which of the various options is feasible and lawful, and can help you create a new contract for the tenant to sign that stipulates the terms and conditions for them to vacate and (if relevant) re-pay their debts.

    At the end of the day, you need to assess what types of lawful incentives you're willing to create to get this tenant out ASAP, while also doing a cost/benefit analysis of how much money and time you're losing in the deal, and how much money/time you can save by getting a better tenant...  and no more payments via checks! (we have much more effective payment methods these days).

    Good luck out there!

  • Member since 2022 · 9 posts · 7 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Leo R.:

    @Angela Persico based on what you've told us, I think that your top priority should be to have this tenant leave ASAP and find a new, better tenant. The longer you allow this tenant to stay and keep missing payments, the worse the situation will become (and the more money you will lose).

    Thank you for taking the time to write such a long response, and providing a ton of good advice. I think you're probably right about the problem with hiring a PM right now, and it was exactly what I'd been concerned about. Who would want to take this on for a measly $90/month? Unfortunately, she can't be evicted until next year because of ERAP, but I like the idea of potentially writing up a new contract, or even offering cash for keys. I gues worst case is that I'm stuck with her usual nonsense for several more months and will evict her once I'm able to.

    I have been doing a lot of reading on real estate lately, including BP books, which is how I found the forum. When I first rented out to her, becoming a landlord was never on my radar so I didn't know how to be one, but the books I've been reading have opened my eyes a bit. I'm definitely learning how to do better going forward, though I still have a lot to learn. I'm certainly not rushing into renting again. Who knows, maybe RE really ISN'T for me, but I honestly don't think I will make the same mistakes going forward. I think my Rule #1 will be - no renting to people I know! 

  • Member since 2022 · 9 posts · 7 votes
    4y
    Quote from @Quincy Lockett:

    @Angela Persico

    Find a bank convenient to her and open a checking account. Have her deposit a money order and deduct the expense from her rent for the money order. There is NO excuse for her not making the payment at this point. If she balks, and you really can’t file eviction for non-payment until next year, You will have to wait her out until next year and be grateful you get anything from her. But I would not arouse her ire if I have to deal with her until next year. Handle her with soft gloves until you can evict or not renew her lease.


    That actually sounds like a great idea! The house is only 2 blocks from a bank, and right across the street from where she gets her money orders, so she couldn't use inconvenient location as an excuse. Is this a common thing for landlords to do? We've definitely been handling her with kid gloves, thinking that at least she's paying something at a time when plenty of tenants have completely stopped paying rent because they can't be evicted...But I geuss that's why I've been beating myself up over the whole situation. Maybe if I'd been more firm she'd have made her payments and I wouldn't be stressing about this so much. But then maybe she would have just stopped enitrely and I'd have no money at all coming in...

  • South Holland, IL · Member since 2017 · 376 posts · 432 votes
    4y

    @Angela Persico

    I’ve done it with 1 tenant in 21 years and it works! I get an electronic message from the bank instantly.

  • Member since 2022 · 115 posts · 49 votes
    4y

    First, kudos on taking the scariest step - the first one.  Second, I appreciate that you have come to terms that you need help.  I am new to it myself (2 years into it but started later in life so life has taught me many lessons which has helped me with land lording).  If you can afford it, as others have suggested, hire a property manager to manage the situation for you.  If not, I would look at your contract and see if there are any clauses in there that are applicable in your situation.  It is very hard to not be emotional because at the end of the day, you are dealing with people.  However, you also need to remember why you got into it - it is for you.  It is a business and you need to make it clear to your friend that it is exactly that.  Worst case and you don't want to deal with it, sell it and have the new owners deal with her.  I am hoping you've had enough equity to walk away and get a new deal.

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