Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
any tricks anyone care to share?
On a tenant application where you asked for last or the one before that landlord, how do you know you are not talking to a friend?
Now, obviously, if the address supplied by the applicant, through an online search from the address using the county tax assessor's site, yield the same owner name you will be calling, more than likely you are talking to the right person.
but sometimes you are given a different name, because...
"He owns the property but his cousin, Bluto Blutarsky, handles everything so here is his number".
or "he uses a property management company, a guy name Bluto Blutarsky, self employed and here is his number".
or may be the owner's name is right, but the phone number is one of his friends and as soon as you called and asked for "Mr. Bluto Blutarsky" his friend says "oh yeah, that's me, I am supposed to be the landlord..."
So how do you make sure that person on the other side of the phone is legit?
Do you ask trick questions? Like "so he paid you $2300 a month for a 1/1? Why you let her go?" or what?
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
12y
Good point Angie, don't tell the party called how they were specified as a reference.
An owner or a PM will or should understand RE lingo. A couple minutes of small talk and you should be able to know if they are in the business or a fake.
"Say, I've been thinking of joining the XYZ Landlord Association are you a member or have you ever been to their meetings?"
I also listen for their reluctance in answering questions, a pause can be in thinking of a correct answer, a quickly given reply can sometimes indicate that 1. they are a small operator who is personally involved and/or 2. they don't want to talk and want to get off, or 3. a friendly relationship where they are trying to help the applicant.
We would call, but we also said we would be sending a written verification and asked them to return it! If you don't get it back, you can call again. Failure to get a written verification can be grounds to terminate a contract.
In lending, you have time for verifications, in our rentals, we'd act quickly in due diligence. Keeping the door open to terminate is a good practice in gaining cooperation, even if you don't intend to terminate (and they'd be in there too, so you may have an eviction). But, any past landlord will understand getting a verification, if they feel the tenant was okay, they'd fill it out and send it back. If they hated the applicant, thought they were terrible tenants, they might say so in code or they won't say anything at all. That's an indication to me, it may be they didn't reply for some other reason, but that's my first assumption.
After awhile, you'll learn to "read people" quickly, their voice, excited responses, hesitations, the old "I don't know" or vague answers can all say something.
Another way to avoid getting bad application information is to briefly explain your application process and how you verify information before you ask the questions. This can scare them away from trying to snow you and you'll get better info. :)
Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
google the address. Often it brings up some old ad for this address, with a ph#. Or get the owner's name and google them. These days most people have a presence on the web and you can find some kind of contact that way (of course not possible, if it's Joe Smith)
Real Estate Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 21 votes
12y
I was given the advice once here on BP to call and ask for the person and then say something like..." Mark has you listed as a reference. How do you know Mark?" May trip them up as they have no idea which person they are supposed to be. The question you have listed is also a good one also - if they listed $1300 for rent ask them if to verify that they are/were paying $1100.
I recently had a lady lie on an app about current landlord/owner. I had questioned her about the current place she was living - and asked her if her current landlord knew she was planning on moving. She answered "oh yes, the area is so bad that she is selling as soon as I find a place."
I had a gut feeling based on the showing that she was lying. So out of curiosity I ran the name that she listed as the "owner/landlord" through the local courts. Turns out the name she listed was her daughter who was going through an eviction. Needless to say I never called the "landlord" or the applicant.
I personally try to use every resource available to verify the owner/landlord of the property before I even pick up the phone. Where I live we are required to list contact info with the auditors office - so if the name matches I may try the phone # listed there first.
Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 228 posts · 30 votes
12y
@Sam Leon you can find who the previous landlord is on some tenant screening program. When you enter their personal info into the system, the database may show where they lived previously and who the landlord was. You can then check against this and if it doesn't match, you can ask them. Of course, the database is only good as landlord input the data so go for a company that has been around for awhile and is solid.
No process is 100% but you will know if they are deceiving you or not. If you still feel uneasy, you can increase the deposit to hedge the risk.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
12y
Good point Angie, don't tell the party called how they were specified as a reference.
An owner or a PM will or should understand RE lingo. A couple minutes of small talk and you should be able to know if they are in the business or a fake.
"Say, I've been thinking of joining the XYZ Landlord Association are you a member or have you ever been to their meetings?"
I also listen for their reluctance in answering questions, a pause can be in thinking of a correct answer, a quickly given reply can sometimes indicate that 1. they are a small operator who is personally involved and/or 2. they don't want to talk and want to get off, or 3. a friendly relationship where they are trying to help the applicant.
We would call, but we also said we would be sending a written verification and asked them to return it! If you don't get it back, you can call again. Failure to get a written verification can be grounds to terminate a contract.
In lending, you have time for verifications, in our rentals, we'd act quickly in due diligence. Keeping the door open to terminate is a good practice in gaining cooperation, even if you don't intend to terminate (and they'd be in there too, so you may have an eviction). But, any past landlord will understand getting a verification, if they feel the tenant was okay, they'd fill it out and send it back. If they hated the applicant, thought they were terrible tenants, they might say so in code or they won't say anything at all. That's an indication to me, it may be they didn't reply for some other reason, but that's my first assumption.
After awhile, you'll learn to "read people" quickly, their voice, excited responses, hesitations, the old "I don't know" or vague answers can all say something.
Another way to avoid getting bad application information is to briefly explain your application process and how you verify information before you ask the questions. This can scare them away from trying to snow you and you'll get better info. :)
Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
Hi @Angie W. I think I recommended that method :) I believe I read it in The Section 8 Bible, written by someone on BP. Anyway, it does work, as does verifying how much they paid in rent without saying it first.
I've encountered several relatives that posed as landlords, and maybe some of them really were...letting the tenant couch-surf with them in between real rentals. As @Bill Gulley says, a seasoned landlord will start sharing war stories with you and even tell you why the tenant is leaving/has left. I've never had a legitimate landlord try to sell me on a bad tenant. They're all too willing to help me avoid one.
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
I've seen people trying to scam like this and I feel really sorry for them.
Even if someone uses a property manager, I call the actual owner and ask them if they can speak to the tenant or give me the name of their property manager. I've never had anyone get mad at me calling for a reference.
- I've called owners and had them tell me they have no such person living there.
- I have had someone list down a "landlord" who wasn't on the property records, and when I checked their Facebook page the "landlord" was listed as their friend.
Sometimes I think of posting a sign at showings that says "If you think you're going to lie on your application and get away with it, just try me." That would make people think twice.
I Sometimes I think of posting a sign at showings that says "If you think you're going to lie on your application and get away with it, just try me." That would make people think twice.
Good one @Dawn Anastasi! I think I may put that in my application. It does say something about fraudulent information, but your statement is much more to the point...and funnier.
Real Estate Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2013 · 114 posts · 21 votes
12y
@Aly W. I believe you're right! You did give me that advice.
It never ceases to amaze me how brazen some people can be.
@Bill Gulley You offer some really good points. I have found that it is very important to be able to read peoples body language when you are speaking to them face to face. I like to ask direct questions about their current living situation and, if renting, if their current landlord knows they are moving. You can pick up many ques in their responses and demeanor that will help you when you are trying to put the pieces together. In the example above, the lady was nervous (to the point of her hands shaking when filling out the app), she whispered to her friend a lot while filling out the app, she loved the place before she even walked in, and when asked directly if this was the owner or PM she said "oh she's the owner, she's going to sell the place" . If you get them talking and they are lying they will eventually trip themselves up or at least give you a better idea of things you should look for.
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
12y
Very good point, search for "verbal judo" it's a technique used by police officers and investigators. Oh, talk about body language, I've had them running to the bathroom! :)
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y
In addition to what @Dawn Anastasi said about calling the owners. Check the owner's phone number against the phone number given using online lookups. If they use a legitimate PM then they usually have an online presence. Check that. I get three past addresses on my applications so I can find at least one past landlord. Cross check the addresses given with the credit report. On-line search the PM if it's supposedly a relative of the owner. Check and search for numbers and property ownership. It takes me about 2 hours to check someone out. I tell people, I know them better than their BF or GF does after I get done.
Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
I use the credit check service offered by mrlandlord.com. For $14.95, I instantly get a credit report with score AND a national eviction report. The eviction report is worth it's weight in gold. Most deadbeats have been evicted at one time or another. It's an easy way to get rid of them before making a bunch of phone calls and becoming a detective.
I agree with above comments about finding out who the real owner is and calling and trying to stump them. I had an applicant list her current landlord who answered all my questions perfectly. It seemed too smooth. When I drove by the current apartment complex she was living in, I called the number on the sign. The person who answered the phone gave a completely different story about the applicant.
Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
12y
I've never put much weight on the landlord reference anyway, since if a tenant is bad why would a landlord say anything that would delay seeing them out the door? What am I not getting?
I've never put much weight on the landlord reference anyway, since if a tenant is bad why would a landlord say anything that would delay seeing them out the door? What am I not getting?
If you call not just the prior landlord, but the one prior to that, that landlord will have no vested interest in helping a bad tenant.
Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
When a thirtysomething tenant with children tells you they've never lived with anyone other than family members, you can usually just stop right there.
When a thirtysomething tenant with children tells you they've never lived with anyone other than family members, you can usually just stop right there.
Exactly! This was my last applicants. Male 32, female 25, 1 kid 8 years old. Only listed current rental residence of 11-12 months on application. When I told them they needed to provide where they lived before that neither one could/would tell me where they had lived and the female kept saying "but this is the only place we have ever had together!" They also wanted to move ASAP and their reason for leaving their current place was that they "wanted a more updated place".