Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 286 posts · 159 votes
A tenant just moved out (a couple) after living in one of my apartments for about 4 years. Good tenants, paid rent, didn't complain much. When they left, I walked through the unit and they left it in pretty good shape--everything gone, swept, etc. However, when I really got in there I realized they didn't do a thorough cleaning the whole time they were there. The top of the kitchen cabinets had a half inch of greasy dirt. The baseboards were never wiped down. The vented door to the water heater was thick with dust. The shower door was dirty and full of soap scum especially on the bottom half of the door. I get wear and tear, and I'm generous giving back security deposits....but I decided to clean this apartment myself and it took me 10 hours. Is it enough for tenants to just sweep and wipe down cabinets or should I charge them for not cleaning better throughout their stay?
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 570 posts · 521 votes
11y
In our leases it says the tenant has to have the carpets professionally steam cleaned upon vacating. Make sure you include "professionally". There is more verbiage you can add to the lease about how clean things need to be in order to hold them to it or deduct for the cleaning if they don't want to do it.
Retired Landlord/Author · Commerce Township, MI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
Nancy, after 4 years of a tenant living in your unit and leaving you with just minor clean up, all I can say is that you have truly been blessed. Please see my photo damages of what some of my tenants had left me as a gift called "Damages" on this site.
A Judge will never award you a Judgment for such a clean up. It is considered normal wear and tear.
Damages are things like..
Holes in the walls
Broken Windows
Broken Doors
Broken Faucets
Broken Toilets
Broken Knobs
Grease Rugs
Bleach on Rugs
Grease on Driveway
And 40 garbage bags of trash to be removed from your home.
Animals left behind that are dead.
If you expect to have a rental property returned to you in white glove condition, you will not be happy in this industry.
Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
11y
I agree with @Account Closed (btw I love your damages photos keep up the good work).
If you really want the home returned in tip top shape cleanliness wise I would offer the tenant some type of a cash incentive. You could put it in the lease. Charge them an extra $5.00 a month. When they leave if they leave it in great shape you will return the 5.00 a month on top of the security deposit.
Make sure that it isn't worded as a deposit or anything other than just rent. You are giving it to them out of the goodness of your heart they are not obligated to it.
Be generous. If they made a decent effort to clean thank them. Don't expect them to magic eraser the tub, clean the top of fan blades, or anything else exorbitant.
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 570 posts · 521 votes
11y
In our leases it says the tenant has to have the carpets professionally steam cleaned upon vacating. Make sure you include "professionally". There is more verbiage you can add to the lease about how clean things need to be in order to hold them to it or deduct for the cleaning if they don't want to do it.
Property Manager · Big Bear Lake, CA · Member since 2013 · 585 posts · 330 votes
11y
I expect my tenants to leave a place in the same condition as when they found it. If those things were all clean when they moved in, then they should be clean when they move out. However, after 4 years of living there, I would not charge for cleaning the tops of cabinets and the water heater door. I would charge for the other things.
As long as you have before and after photos/video, you should be fine charging them.
Rental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2014 · 777 posts · 744 votes
11y
@Nancy Curran I instruct my tenants when they move in that "dirt and damage does not equate to wear and tear". My contract states that the unit should be "renter ready" when they leave. Any cleaning or repair to get it ready is charged at $x/hour. A detailed cleaning list included in the contract really helps.
While It's true that a judge will not award hours that YOU work. If you hire a cleaning service and submit the detailed bill they will... Assuming you did a thorough walk through to begin with. And precious few tenants will ever file a small claim for a couple hundred dollars of cleaning that you document with pictures.
So while I agree a little extra cleaning is a small price for a 'good' tenant for 4 years, expecting them to clean up after themselves is certainly not unreasonable.
Investor · Torrance, CA · Member since 2014 · 75 posts · 13 votes
11y
I have to say that I agree with Michelle L.
If the place was clean when they moved in it should be clean when they move out.
I once had a tenant move out and when I tried to clean the the range hood above the oven, it had so much grease on there that it wouldn't even come off. I had to scrub so hard that it ended up removing the pant.
If your kitchen has four years of grease on the cabinets, I believe that is beyond normal wear and tear.
Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
Leases usually specify something about that tenant shall keep unit in a clean, habitable condition, so no matter how long they live there, it should be a normal cleaning job when they leave. The normal wear and tear IMO is age of carpet, paint, minor scratches on the appliances over the years, etc., not amount of filth they get to leave behind. The states we operate in do not like us charging the security deposit for cleaning we do ourselves, so when I walk in and it's beyond what I consider normal, I hire out to a company that charges about $100 for normal cleaning, then separates the "Excessive cleaning" on the bill, adding whatever additional time it took and why, like oven cleaning, excessive grease, extra attention in the bathrooms like dirty shower stall, toilet stain removal, etc. I deduct the excessive amount, usually around $70, from their security deposit and include a copy of the receipt so they can see I paid for the normal cleaning. No one has contested it yet. I used to just suck it up and do the work myself, but after one of those 10-hour cleaning jobs on a 2-year lease, never again. Definitely learned my lesson, and totally worth the cleaning fee portion I have to pay just in aggravation savings alone.
Retired Landlord/Author · Commerce Township, MI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
You can put anything in the lease that you want, but it has to be in accordance with your state law and City Ordinances.
YOU don't determine what is normal wear and tear.
And you can demand and expect a place to be clean as a whistle, or that the Tenant jump over the moon. But what YOU want and what YOU will get, is two different stories.
Plus when landlords come into court wanting these things. Demanding these things, a Judges don't like that. They feel it is "gouging". Cleaning is something you do when a tenant moves out. If I heard one Judge say this, I've heard 1000 Judges say this. When a Judge tells me that melted crayons in my heating ducts and in every light fixture in the house is just normal wear and tear, then what can you expect your judge to tell you over some dust and dirt.
Thank you for asking this question. I haven't dealt with exiting tenants yet but all the information that everyone has shared will help me prepare my future agreements.
Want to send a thanks to all of you that have advised on the situation.
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 570 posts · 521 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
You can put anything in the lease that you want, but it has to be in accordance with your state law and City Ordinances.
YOU don't determine what is normal wear and tear.
And you can demand and expect a place to be clean as a whistle, or that the Tenant jump over the moon. But what YOU want and what YOU will get, is two different stories.
Plus when landlords come into court wanting these things. Demanding these things, a Judges don't like that. They feel it is "gouging". Cleaning is something you do when a tenant moves out. If I heard one Judge say this, I've heard 1000 Judges say this. When a Judge tells me that melted crayons in my heating ducts and in every light fixture in the house is just normal wear and tear, then what can you expect your judge to tell you over some dust and dirt.
Nancy Neville
Very true. When push comes to shove, judges are notoriously favorable to tenants.
However, I would never discount the power of having something in writing whether it would pass judgement in court or not, almost always whatever is in the lease will never end up being ruled on by a judge because tenants will often just drop their objections if it's in writing.
Retired Landlord/Author · Commerce Township, MI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
Yes, what you say is true too. I always have everything in writing. By having it in writing it sometimes will ward off going to court when you use it to remind the tenants of what was in the lease and what they signed.
But once again, I wouldn't hold my breath for a Judge to ward you a Judgment on frivolous wear and tear issues.
Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 286 posts · 159 votes
11y
Thanks everyone, I just wanted to see which way the wind blew on this board. Of course, everyone knows that judges favor tenants. And although Nancy Neville needs to screen better if she's got dead animals on her hands, her point is well taken that extra dirt isn't as significant as her problems. However, just because she has cancer, doesn't make my flu less awful. I have many "blessings" but an inch of greasy dirt isn't one of them! Thanks!