Tenant won't move out and requesting a Jury trial...

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Tenant won't move out and requesting a Jury trial...

Chris Reynolds
Investor · Brecksville, OH · Member since 2014 · 12 posts · 14 votes

I have a tenant who is month to month and is a lawyer who has a checkered past to put it nicely, he is a felon, but has been given his law license back. He has stopped paying rent, and told me he will not pay, or move until a judge tells him to. He will not communicate with me, and will not give me his lawyers contact information. I have given him a 30 day notice to leave (per month to month tenancy in ohio) and plan to give him a 3 day notice, then start the eviction process. I've spoken to multiple layers who know him and they said he will request it being moved from a suburban court to downtown and will request a jury trial which with the backlog of cases will buy him at least 6 to 12 months rent free. I have a great lease, and it is clear I have done everything right, the tenant knows he will loose, but he also knows it will cost me (estimates so far) over $5,000-$10,000 to fight this as a jury trial plus the lost revenue in rental income. I have no idea what to do, as I can't believe you can have a jury trial for an eviction when you refuse to pay or leave. I can not afford the loss in rental income along with the associated legal fees, and am looking into selling the house. 

Does anyone have any advice on this , or has anyone gone through this in the past and has ANY insight at all of what to do? I will be trying to sell the house, while also starting the eviction process with the tenant, and hiring a lawyer to try and stop his change of venue, and request for a jury trial but my lawyer said he will most likely get both of those requests.

I will loose the house if he doesn't pay, and I have to take on legal fees. I tried telling him he doesn't owe any back rent and I will return his security deposit in full even though there is damage to the property and he won't accept that either. 

Finally, when I tell him I will be entering the property with 24 hours notice he purposely is not there, and has two very large German Shepard dogs which he claims are mean so I can not even access my own property.

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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y

@Chris Reynolds, I am thinking out loud here.  One, if you have equity perhaps you could find a lawyer who would be willing to buy your house for what you owe on it.  He will have the money and incentive to do this the right way.  You might just consider filing and going through with the eviction with a lawyer.  You will eventually win.  When you do you will get a judgement.  You can garnish his wages.  The state Bars hate attorney's who get judgements against them.  They are high risk for stealing clients money.  If this guy has lost his license once he will be under higher scrutiny, and pulling a stunt like this and getting evicted and getting a judgement against him could very well cost him his license again.  Right now he has you bluffed.  He wins without you even fighting.  You have nothing to gain by rolling over and playing dead, go after him.  Make sure the judge knows what he is doing and that he is a lawyer , that he has been disbarred once and that you will lose the property.  Judges do not like guys who make their profession look bad.  If you have to go to the local paper maybe they will run a story.  Be sure to file a complaint with the ethics committee for him being a deadbeat and not paying his bills and for not being fair in his dealings with you.

    What ever you do, never threaten him even if its financial, or do any act that he can counter sue on.  I wish the house were close enough for me to buy it.  I would suggest looking up his disbarment case, it will be public record.  There may be information you can use to impeach him.  Maybe call the exwife and see if she can give you any useful information about him.  If some guy is just beating on you there are only 3 choices, take it and do nothing, run, or fight back.  Attorney's can be the master of bluffing, but even if it is not a bluff at least go down fighting.

    I have gotten spoiled in Wyoming, there is not a right to a jury trial for an eviction and the hearing must be set within 12 days of service of the defendant.  I have gotten eviction orders within 5 days of service in some cases.  Good luck.

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  • Jeff B.
    Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Brett Pedigo:

    Just a thought... Do you have the utilities in your name? If not, can you switch into your name putting a lock on who has access and sit them off? Sorry to hear about your troubles.

     That's illegal in most states and gets the LL in more trouble!!!

    0Reply
  • Jeff B.
    Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    you said - - I will loose the house if he doesn't pay, and I have to take on legal fees.

    That's truly a shame, but frankly- - you can't depend upon 100% occupancy! I know an SFR is feast or famine, but you must have a plan on how to pay the mortgage, insurance & property taxes without a tenant.

    Having a MFU myself, it's much easier for me to sit in the cheap seats and harp - - but the economics are just screaming here - - you didn't have a plan B for such an occurrence.

    I guess there's several lessons: No Felons, no Lawyers and have reserves to cover vacancies.

    1Reply
  • Rich N.Pro Member
    Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes
    9y

    @Chris Reynolds

    Is there an update?

    0Reply
  • Alan Ferrara
    Westfield, IN · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Does the place have smoke detectors installed?  Who is responsible for making sure the batteries are good?  Might be a way to get in and check the detectors to make sure they are properly working, or have a judge order him to let you in to check the life safety devices within the building.

      And you forgot one thing .... he's an attorney. never trust an attorney, or car salesman, and some doctors

    0Reply
  • Eddie Shah
    Chicago, IL · Member since 2011 · 16 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    I have evicted at least 5 tenants in the past 3 years. Out that I fought 4 of them in court and settled and or won in which case the sheriff kicked them out. 

    So what I would say to summaries is go head on head and legally fight till the last hour; Wish you all the luck. Do update when he is kicked out.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Johnson City, TN · Member since 2014 · 586 posts · 705 votes
    9y

    I sure am feeling bummed now. Have been reading for 30 minutes while looking forward to the conclusion. Nothing. Just nothing. 😞

    0Reply
  • Maggie Tasseron
    Investor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2015 · 215 posts · 64 votes
    9y

    Hey Chris: Since this thread has just had new comments posted, we're all wondering what has happened with your POS tenant. As it's now about a year later, we hope for good news from you...hope you have time to give us an update.  All the best!

    0Reply
  • David Grabiner
    Investor · Chattanooga, TN · Member since 2016 · 146 posts · 108 votes
    9y

    @Chris Reynolds How about an update on this?

    1Reply
  • Deanna McCormick
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    No point in entering for showing you have no idea of when it will be available to rent.

    Rarely do I recommend someone getting a attorney to file if it's a simple eviction action. but in your case I'd pay the fee's and step back keep record of any texts or notes he gave you and keep log of when you called or contacted him.

    His threats are meant to do just that.. he's tossed the ball in your court so take him to court and no further contact with out your attorney advising you what to do. 

    Don't disconnect and services, don't lock him out, and don't bother the dogs.. just have your attorney serve him and pray.

    0Reply
  • Chuy Gonzalez
    Investor · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 313 posts · 190 votes
    9y

    Lawyers and felons...people I don't want in my building.

    1Reply
  • George DespotopoulosBusiness Member
    Lender · New York, NY · Member since 2016 · 936 posts · 287 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Brett Schulte:
    Originally posted by @George Despotopoulos:
    Originally posted by @Brett Schulte:
    Originally posted by @George Despotopoulos:

    Depending on your lease, and specific state statutes, you may have a clause in there waiving a jury trial. That may help you.

    That wouldn't hold up in court.  http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1258748.html

     Does that decision apply to New York courts?

     I am unaware of any jurisdiction that allows a right to be waived in violation of public policy.  With that said, the mere appearance such a clause, unenforceable though it may be, would probably still have the desired effect.

    http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-supreme-court/1244212.html

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    1Reply
  • Chris Reynolds
    OP
    Investor · Brecksville, OH · Member since 2014 · 12 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    Thank you everyone for the update, I was able to have the sheriff throw him out of the house after he caused extensive damaged to the property, fixed it back up, and re rented it out. 

    I took him to court, he filed a $25,000 countersuit against me, which was insane to put it nicely. I won in court, but less than I should have because of his insane lies (all backed up with no proof) so it basically came to the judge trying to be fair and meet in the middle. After I was awarded a settlement, I tried to collect and the next day he filed and appeal.

    There has been three continuances filed by him on the appeal already, and he missed the last court date, but having friends in the legal department must be nice so the new judge is reviewing all the original transcripts from the original case and will come back with a decision. I am not worried about losing the case since he has no leg to stand on, but once this is done my lawyer assured me that he will simply file another appeal since his law practice is not doing well (imagine that with the caliber of this person) and has all the free time in the world.

    Basically, the house is safe and cash positive, for all of you saying you can't count on the house being occupied, of course and I had a reserve, but the six months of no rent and about $5,000 in repairs made it for a headache for sure. I will be in this battle for the foreseeable future, and I am not the biggest fan of the legal system anymore after I find out what anyone with a bit of money, or a law license can do to a regular citizen.

    Thanks to everyone for their insight!

    10Reply
  • Joel Poualeu
    Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    @Chris Reynolds

    Very sorry to hear you had to go through that. Congrats on your case win.

    0Reply
  • Maggie Tasseron
    Investor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2015 · 215 posts · 64 votes
    9y

    Hey Chris:

    Thanks for the update and I'm happy for you that it was mostly good news, main thing being that you got him OUT!. I don't blame you a bit for losing whatever faith you had in the judicial system; I myself have won suits twice against different ex-tenants and had them overturned by a bleeding heart appellate court judge. I sure don't understand how it is that he missed a court appearance and yet this thing is still dragging on; generally, here in California, if someone misses a court date, the judges automatically rule against them, but like you say, he has "friends". any sane person would think that having a case like yours on his record would be something this scumbag would want to avoid, but people like him literally don't care what anyone thinks about them even when it damages their livelihood. We just have to keep reminding ourselves that they are never winners and always losers, while we have our dignity and self-respect intact. All the best to you moving forward!

    0Reply
  • Shawn Q.
    Rental Property Investor · Champaign, IL · Member since 2015 · 146 posts · 80 votes
    9y

    I ran across this and wondered if there has been a resolution? Edit: Sorry! Didn't realize I was posting to the beginning of the thread! 

    I'll do some reading now. :)

    0Reply
  • Laurence K.
    Investor · Padstow New South Wales, Australia · Member since 2015 · 38 posts · 27 votes
    9y

    Hmmm, try the Hells Angels eviction department.

    0Reply
  • Jeff Sprunger
    Lockport , NY · Member since 2014 · 265 posts · 124 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Laurence K.:

    Hmmm, try the Hells Angels eviction department.

    OOOOHHHH!  a few beers, a couple buddies, black ski masks and baseball bats!!! I like where your heads at...

    an old ACDC songs comes to mind!!! "you got a lady and you want her gone, but you ain't got the guts..." (you know you are all singing it now!)

    0Reply
  • Brian Garlington
    Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Chris Reynolds

    Cash for Keys and keep it moving

    0Reply
  • Patrick L.
    Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    9y

    Glad you got him out.  Now you know not to rent to convicted felons or attorneys, both are nightmare tenants.   Add strippers and "self employed" with undocumented income to that list too.  

    Personally I hate cash for keys, but when dealing with an attorney it may be been worth feeling out what he would have cost because this was going to drag out longer than any average tenant.   Normally I'm happier to give my money to my attorney rather than a scumbag tenant.  

    0Reply
  • Matt David
    Hobart, IN · Member since 2017 · 23 posts · 6 votes
    9y

    @Patrick L.

    As a lawyer myself, I refuse to represent attorney's as clients.  And I would never rent to one either.  We make terrible tenants/clients - which is why we're homeowners. ;)

    I have had good experiences with mystery money/cash tenants, but I do extensive vetting.  And each area/tenant is different of course.

    @Chris Reynolds

    In Illinois, if a lawyer pulled that, it is technically reportable to the iARDC (That's who governs our law licenses).  It would fall under filing a vexatious/frivolous pleading, presuming that's what's going on. I don't advocate burning my own kind at the stake, but clowns like this move from victim to victim, and the report may protect the general public at large from future harm.

    0Reply
  • Brian Garlington
    Realtor · Oakland, CA and a Real Estate Investor with Multi-Family Units and a Self Storage Facility · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Chris Reynolds

    A wise person told me to never ever ever ever ever rent to someone who has a felony on their record.......no matter how long ago.....no matter what the circumstances.

    There are also some people I have "heard" will never rent to or sell a property to an attorney simply because of the potential litigous nature of their profession to try and find something wrong when things don't go their way.   (I of course am NOT telling you to not rent to anyone at all based on their profession or past criminal history, I am simply telling you what I have "heard of" what others have done to prevent such potential foolishness)

    Congrats on the lesson learned my friend

    0Reply
  • Matthew Greco
    Manhattan NY · Member since 2017 · 74 posts · 14 votes
    9y
    So if i understand​ correctly​ turning off utilities is a big no/no, but what happens if you actually can't afford to pay for the utlities?
    0Reply
  • Max BrunkePro Member
    Developer · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 5 votes
    9y
    I wish you luck and hope you find a result promptly. If law in Oregon were as bonkers as it is in Ohio I might lose it. There are no jury trials for evictions in Oregon. There are crazy protections for tenants regarding rent increases here in Portland (legally requiring cash-for-keys in some cases). But, no way an eviction properly executed would take a year. That's wicked bad.
    0Reply
  • Denise Johnson
    Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    I had a dead beat tenant too. Luckily, I was able to retain my property through a writ of possession. However, it took 3 months to have this resolved. Legal fees, mortgage payments, and loss of rent payments. Unfortunately (in Texas) there was nothing I could do. I was advised that the law protects the tenant against "slumlords" and I would just have to wait it out. I was told the same thing about the case going to civil court. More time and money from me.

    I don't know of anything you can do but I will tell you, even if you go to court the only thing happens is the judge rules in your favor. Its just a ruling! The tenant will have a judgement on his credit history..that's it. You wont get your money back.  Unless, you have a good lawyer who specializes in landlord/tenant laws and knows of ways to get him to pay. This is just based on my experience (Texas law).

    1Reply
  • John Bower
    Property Manager · Voorheesville, NY · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    This is a terrible situation.  If you have a really good relationship with your attorney,  you could see if they could take your case on pro bono.  If not,  maybe they will allow you to do a payment plan.  Hopefully it won't come to a jury trial.  I've dealt with a lot of evictions with low-income tenants where they have had legal aid get involved and it has always been a massive headache.  There really should be a free law organization that helps out landlords with evicting problem tenants. 

    0Reply
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