Tenant complaint - suggestions for responding back

Tenant complaint - suggestions for responding back

Investor 路 San Jose, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 61 posts 路 13 votes

Hello to experienced landlords,  I just had my first turnover in the duplex and I got following complaint from the tenant. I would appreciate how best to respond to this.  Can this be trouble if I just tell them that they inspected the place before signing the lease? Is there any law for minimum width for stairway? 

"A huge issue that we had moving in was learning that the box springs for our beds will not fit up the stairway- not even the smaller size for kids beds. Had I known this, I would not have applied to rent for this house. Leo had to design custom platforms, purchase and cut the lumber, take it up to the designated bedroom and build all of us new mattress supports. This was an ordeal, to say the least. I feel that this is something we should be compensated for- at the very least, we should be reimbursed for the materials we had to purchase. (I will provide receipts to show the cost of the lumber, etc.) It took Leo two hours to put together each bed- and that is not taking into consideration the time it took him to measure, design, and make multiple trips to the hardware store. I think it's safe to say that most people would not have had the skills or backround required to make such adjustments, in order to live in this house. That staircase is definitely not up to code.  "

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Severna Park, MD 路 Member since 2013 路 7k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
10y

" Sorry you were inconvienced ,  there is a new tool called a tape measure , if you had any doubt  things would fit , you could have measured .  Older homes were built to the code at that time  "     We are not responsible for your choice in furniture .  As far as any compensation , plain and simple ................NO .     

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  • Buy & Hold Owner 路 Redlands, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 5k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    10y

    Yes, there are building codes for the width and rise of a staircase.

    Any good/licensed contractor should be able to measure and tell you where you're at and how to correct if necessary

  • Investor 路 Bryson City, NC 路 Member since 2013 路 162 posts 路 122 votes
    10y

    Raman, 

    What sizes were the kids beds? And what is the stairway width and headroom?
  • Ormond Beach , FL 路 Member since 2015 路 345 posts 路 223 votes
    10y

    Tell them to move to Europe and see if anyone cares! 馃榿

  • Real Estate Broker 路 Chicago, IL 路 Member since 2015 路 531 posts 路 266 votes
    10y

    I would not brush them off. There is likely a local ordinance or law for the width of the staircase and you want to make sure it is up to code. Also if they have children you could have a huge liability on your hands if one of these kids hurts themselves due to the stairway not being safe. 

    Did you have an inspection on the property when you purchased it? This should have been something in the inspection report. 

  • Investor 路 San Jose, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 61 posts 路 13 votes
    10y

    Thanks everyone for your comments. I have not measured the stairway but I had a quick look at CA code and or says the width should be 30 inch. I believe it is not less than 30 based on visual memory.  I do not remember anything specific in inspection report about this. Let me check it again tonight. 

    If inspection report does not say anything, can I assume it is not a legal issue and I can just politely acknowledge their problems without committing anything in return?

  • Severna Park, MD 路 Member since 2013 路 7k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    10y

    " Sorry you were inconvienced ,  there is a new tool called a tape measure , if you had any doubt  things would fit , you could have measured .  Older homes were built to the code at that time  "     We are not responsible for your choice in furniture .  As far as any compensation , plain and simple ................NO .     

  • Software Developer 路 Vidor, TX 路 Member since 2015 路 922 posts 路 639 votes
    10y

    Did the previous tenants have these issues?  Did the current tenants not do a walk-through?  I would reimburse them just for the trouble and to keep the peace for a relatively low cost.

  • Chicago, IL 路 Member since 2014 路 710 posts 路 200 votes
    10y

    never seen a stair code less than 36" wide with a height of 80". 

    I'd tell them to take the $ off next months rent for their inconvenience

  • Real Estate Broker 路 Indianapolis, IN 路 Member since 2009 路 575 posts 路 496 votes
    10y

    The customer is NOT always right.  

    If you are in violation of code then fine...  good to know.  But tenants have been known to try to take advantage of landlords in any way they can.   

    Just to be clear..  is this a tenant who has just moved in or one who has just moved out?  

  • Real Estate Broker 路 Indianapolis, IN 路 Member since 2009 路 575 posts 路 496 votes
    10y

    If you do give them some money to compensate be really clear that this is one time deal.  

    At that point you are giving them an inch.  Dont let them take a mile.  At the same time its extremely important to start the relationship off on the right foot.  

    A lot of situations like this come down to your gut feeling of how sincere they are.  

  • Investor 路 Bryson City, NC 路 Member since 2013 路 162 posts 路 122 votes
    10y

    Raman, 

    Make sure to measure the height from the stair tread to the ceiling as well.  I agree with @Sarah Ziehr about not brushing them off.  If the kids had twin box springs and they were not able to fit them in the stairway you could have a nice sized problem on hand with an out of code staircase, as well as now having to inform any new tenants about the inabillity to get box springs into bedrooms.  Given the probability that the staircase is not to code I think you would be getting off easy by paying the tenant for the materials to make platforms. 

  • Investor 路 San Jose, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 246 posts 路 183 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Raman Bindlish:

    Thanks everyone for your comments. I have not measured the stairway but I had a quick look at CA code and or says the width should be 30 inch. I believe it is not less than 30 based on visual memory.  I do not remember anything specific in inspection report about this. Let me check it again tonight. 

    If inspection report does not say anything, can I assume it is not a legal issue and I can just politely acknowledge their problems without committing anything in return?

     At a minimum, I would call a contractor and verify the minimum width standard and go to the property to measure.  (I found the same building code - keep in mind hand rails/trim can't cut into the minimum by more than 3.5")   If it is close, you might want to send a professional out to measure.  If it is a non-issue, I would write them a formal response stating that the stairway was built to code, decline to reimburse them and remind them that they had ample opportunity to inspect and measure prior to signing the lease.  

    I would be wary of these tenants. A tenant intending to stay in a place long term would deem the issue as annoying but not a deal breaker.  Also, they incurred expense before notifying you of the problem. Be firm but fair and put everything in writing.  Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor 路 Rockford, IL 路 Member since 2014 路 4k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
    10y

    When I got my 2nd apartment it was because I had just bought a water bedroom set that I knew didn't fit upstairs in folks' Cape Cod. When it came time to take delivery, the headboard wouldn't fit up the stairs, and the crew wouldn't winch it up over the (2nd story) balcony (of a 6-flat). I went back to the store and traded it for a head board which didn't exactly match, but did fit up the stairs. In Fall of 1994, I moved that same headboard - single handedly - down a u-shaped stairway at my first townhome.

    Like another poster said: the place was built to the code of the day. Codes change. Furniture is not meant for universal fit. The tenants have nothing to complain about - they're just looking for some to blame besides themselves. Lotta that goin' around!

    David J Dachtera

    "Success is not a destination. Failure is not an event. Success is a process, failure is a choice."
    - DJ Benedict

  • Severna Park, MD 路 Member since 2013 路 7k+ posts 路 7k+ votes
    10y

    Everyone is talking about " codes"  . In my parts a house has to pass the building code at the time it was built .  You dont have to bring it up to the current codes . A house with screw in fuses in the electrical panel is legal as long as it past code when it was built .  My current home wouldnt pass the current code ( no house wrap , not enough insulation in the ceiling , walls now have to be 2 by 6 ,  dryer has to be 4 wire , not 3 wire , smoke detectors have to be hard wired ,  fire sprinklers)   I dont have to change a thing , if I did it would be a small fortune . 

  • Rental Property Investor 路 Seattle, WA 路 Member since 2014 路 1k+ posts 路 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Justin Fox:

    Did the previous tenants have these issues?  Did the current tenants not do a walk-through?  I would reimburse them just for the trouble and to keep the peace for a relatively low cost.

     This. Let the buyer beware, they could have measured ahead of time. I've even had tenants do that. If they also fail to check out the school district, commute, or whatever else, then it's not my fault or problem. Furthermore, they could have said something at move in, yet they decided to go out on their own and do all this work and then ask you for compensation after the fact. No thanks.

    This is one of the reasons I love keeping tenants on a month to month lease. If they give me a hard time or are unreasonable, I welcome them to find another place to rent.

  • Vilas, WI 路 Member since 2015 路 79 posts 路 41 votes
    10y

    I'm not one for confrontation with my tenants, and will usually go out of my way to resolve and issue, however, this is one I would not entertain.

    Where do these people come off with such a request? I have rented plenty over the years, and it would NEVER even cross my mind to think that my landlord needs to compensate me because my bed(s) won't fit up the staircase. Then call them on codes? Would love to know when the house was built. 

  • Investor 路 San Jose, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 61 posts 路 13 votes
    10y

    My findings till now:

    - The inspection report never said anything about width of the stairway. But there is an issue with spacing of railings being more than 4 inch which is an issue (kid can fall through it). The current tenant family has teenage kids, so I am not worried about that but I guess I will have to take care of the spacings. My contractor who replaced laminate for the stairs claims that he remembers it being around 36 inch (as compared to 30 inch as per building code). But I still do not have confirmed measuments. (One side note - I am 2.5 hours away from property).

    - Other than that, inspection report talked about height from tread to ceiling not being good enough as per modern standards and someone can bump the head. But the next comment is "Repair or modifications to the stairway would likely not be practical."

    Now, I see 2 recommendations here:

    - Just repay their material and try to avoid confrontation. I am ok in terms of money. My only challenge is that I am encouraging this behavior. It is a pretty old house and one can find ways to complain about something or other. I am charging a little lower than market rent as I have definitely not put in a lot of money to rehab the place. I just replaced flooring with new laminate and got a new paint.

    - Other suggestion is to tell them that I am sorry for their inconvenience but I am not responsible for this. As these are new tenants with 1 year lease, I am not sure if this will cause further confrontations everyday.

    Let me respond to them without saying anything about this other than I am sorry for inconvenience. I have some other complaints in same email which I will take care of. If they insist again, I will have to really think about how to respond. Please keep your ideas flowing here so that I can make a good judgement.

  • Investor 路 Rochester, NY 路 Member since 2016 路 477 posts 路 426 votes
    10y

    I always try to make certain I know what the problem is before I go about trying to fix it. 

    In this case, are you certain they couldn't actually get those box springs up the stairs? Maybe they're just really bad at moving. 

    Also, if they had lived in your unit for several years, then went out and bought new box springs only to find out they wouldn't fit, would that have been your fault? My wife and I bought a "full" size bed, rather than a queen when we lived in a very small place for this very reason. 

    All that aside, go with your gut: if you think they're genuine, decent people, roll the dice on the hundred bucks (or however much they're trying to hit you for.) I would be more inclined to think they're shriekers looking for some shut-up money, but I've been known to be unfairly judgmental in the past.  

  • Professional 路 Glendale, CA 路 Member since 2013 路 105 posts 路 47 votes
    10y

    Interesting, I would have not thought of a stair case having to measure up to code, but it makes sense.   I would find an experienced/trusted or referred contractor who deals with code and get his opinion on the matter.   How much would it cost to bring to code.  If not expensive, might be a good idea.

    As far as reimbursing tenants, my gut says no to giving them any cash.   Tenant should have measured.   As new teants, if they complain about something and get money back you are setting a precedent for the tenant that implies "If I complain, I can get money back."  So what will be next?  I would have never moved in if I knew the neighbors would play their music so loud or stay up late or whatever.  

    If you do decide you want to appease them, instead of $$ I would go the route of some type upgrade.  New fixture or even stove or whatever would benefit you as well.  Or since their main request is to get cost of materials back, buy a plant. gift card or other housewarming gift of equal value.

    I would respond with whatever your decision is in writing.   Be understanding.  If you have a contractor out and he says no liability on your part and no real need to make changes, then tell the tenants that in a nice way.  Of course you are sorry for their inconvenience, but on the flipside they now have a great place to live. 

    If no changes are required for the stair case, make sure in the future you make perspective tenants aware they should measure before attempting to move items. 

    If you do have a contractor out, please let us know what he advises.  It is so interesting reading all these issues/posts because I am learning from them.

    good luck

  • Investor 路 San Jose, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 246 posts 路 183 votes
    10y

    @Raman Bindlish  I would take care of the railing spacings since you would be liable if a child got hurt, especially because you had notice.  Though the tenants' children are teenagers, they may have family or friends with young children visit.  I would take the opportunity in fixing the railing to have the contractor advise you about whether the stairway was built to code for that year.

    I'm curious about the tenants' other complaints.  Are they reasonable?

  • Architect 路 Papillion, NE 路 Member since 2015 路 1k+ posts 路 840 votes
    10y

    This must be an old home when codes didnt address this or exist.  If there was no renovation to the stairs, then they don't have to be brought up to current codes. Replacing carpet doesn't count as a renovation. Sorry!

  • Investor 路 San Jose, CA 路 Member since 2015 路 61 posts 路 13 votes
    10y

    @Jim Adrian  It is 1962 construction, so definitely it does not meet recent standards. Also, in the CA code, I see the words "width may be 30 inch". I am not sure if it is a must or just a recommendation. Anyone on the forum who can tell me what is the legally right thing to do in this case if we do not meet 30 inch guideline.

    In terms of renovation, no we did not do anything other than replacing carpet and putting in laminate. But I see a point in inspection report that spacing between railings is big and it may lead to accidents with kids. So, I am thinking of getting that done now that it came to my attention to avoid any serious trouble later on. 

    @Jennifer L. The other demands are reasonable - there is a broken sprinkler head in front yard and missing light fixture on the way between bathroom and bedroom. But when I was a tenant, I had bedrooms with no light fixtures in any bedroom and here I have fans installed with light in each bedroom. But I hope this is just a 20 bucks thing and I can take care of that request so that they see my making an effort to take care of their needs.

  • Real Estate Broker 路 Chicago, IL 路 Member since 2015 路 531 posts 路 266 votes
    10y

    This reminds me of a house I sold a few years ago and the sellers could not get a metal bed frame out of the second floor bedroom. 

    If the house is old then you really do need to bring the staircase up to current health/safety standards. I realize these current tenants don't have small children, but it is a very real consideration going forward. If a small child was injured and you were sued, could you be held liable? Absolutely. 

    Perhaps the answer is to offer to compensate them for the mattress supports, at the end of their lease, provided that they leave these custom built mattress supports when they move. After all, if they couldn't get them up the stairs, will they be able to get them down the stairs? And when your next tenant wants to move in you will have that situation all over again. 

    I think most people have good intentions. Do these people seem like scam artists? Trust your instincts- talk to them- I am sure you can work something out. Good luck! 

  • Investor 路 Columbus, OH 路 Member since 2014 路 124 posts 路 67 votes
    10y

    I would not entertain this request in any way.  You are the landlord here and they are new tenants and you need to set the tone for how this relationship is going to work RIGHT NOW or you are going to regret ever letting these people move in because they will be running your life for the next year they live in this house.  They are building code experts?  That line about the stairs not being up to code would irritate the crap out of me coming from a tenant.  And as someone else said, maybe they could have gotten those box springs up the stairs with some ingenuity.  Maybe they're bad at moving.

    Assuming there is no violation of any codes (we will not consider the railing at this moment as that was not the complaint), this is not your problem and the fact they are asking for compensation for this problem is a huge red flag to me. I would nip this in the bud immediately.

    My response would be something like "I'm sorry you had difficulty moving in.  As you are aware this house was built in 1962 and I have been assured by an inspector that the stairway met the building code of the time and is not a violation of any current codes.  In the future if you are having an issue that you believe is my responsibility I advise that you contact me before you make any decisions or changes or investments in alternative solutions so that we can come to a suitable agreement."

  • Architect 路 Papillion, NE 路 Member since 2015 路 1k+ posts 路 840 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Raman Bindlish:

    @Jim Adrian  It is 1962 construction, so definitely it does not meet recent standards. Also, in the CA code, I see the words "width may be 30 inch". I am not sure if it is a must or just a recommendation. Anyone on the forum who can tell me what is the legally right thing to do in this case if we do not meet 30 inch guideline.

    In terms of renovation, no we did not do anything other than replacing carpet and putting in laminate. But I see a point in inspection report that spacing between railings is big and it may lead to accidents with kids. So, I am thinking of getting that done now that it came to my attention to avoid any serious trouble later on. 

    @Jennifer L. The other demands are reasonable - there is a broken sprinkler head in front yard and missing light fixture on the way between bathroom and bedroom. But when I was a tenant, I had bedrooms with no light fixtures in any bedroom and here I have fans installed with light in each bedroom. But I hope this is just a 20 bucks thing and I can take care of that request so that they see my making an effort to take care of their needs.

    The current design of the stair would meet the requirements of the code that I as in place at the time of building the house in 1962.  You are not required to make changes to it to bring it up to current codes. For your area it maybe IRC 2012 or ICR 2009.  You don't have to make any changes to it. The tenant is SOL... Some inspector fail to remember or ask themselves does this meet code at the of conduction for that year it was built?  A lot look at the present time codes and make the blanket statement its not up to code.  There point if valid but not accurate due to no construction to the stair in this case.  This is a grandfathered item until you alter the stair.   Changing the carpet out of the years is cosmetic repair/improvement and not required to bring it up to current codes.

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