Heating optionS to prevent high turnover - philadelphia, pa
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 34 posts · 4 votes
I have a duplex in West Philadelphia's University City area. The property is all electric, no gas. I am having a challenge with one of my units. It is about 1500 sqft, 3stories, 3br, 2ba and being heated by an electric forced air furnace.
I lived in the unit for 5 yrs. And although the heating bills could be high, they were manageable (never had one more than $500) I kept budget billing which averaged the heat bill over a years time and I used utility choice after Peco got rid of its residential heating rates.
Now that I've moved out and put tenants in the unit, they are getting VERY high heating bills upwards of $900 per month. They cannot afford it of course. I'm trying to figure out the best way to manage this.
Should I add a gas line and put in a gas furnace? Change to baseboard? Put the heat on a separate meter and pay for/control it myself? Any other thoughts? Although the heat is not my responsibility, it's causing a major challenge in retaining tenants.
Disclaimer: I am not an HVAC professional, and I am very new to being a landlord.
In the short term, education may help. I have seen other landlords here post that if it's too hot inside, some tenants will open the window instead of turning down the furnace. Yes, even in the winter time.
Since you already have air ducts in the house, I'd tend to agree with your gas furnace idea. If you know that there is already a gas main in that street, it shouldn't be too expensive to get a line to the house and a meter. If it's an existing house that you're converting from electric heat, sometimes the gas company covers part of the cost of putting the line in from the street to the house.
If there isn't a gas main on that street, but there is one on the corner or otherwise nearby, it might be a little more expensive. If that is the case, talk to the owners of adjacent properties about splitting the cost of running the main down the street - they may be ready to cut down their electric bills, too.
For the gas furnace itself, you can get them in different efficiency levels - how much of the gas they turn into useful heat in the house. Right now, the cheapest kind you can buy are 80% efficient. The next step up is about 90%, and they go all the way up to about 97%. The more efficient ones cost more to buy, but are cheaper to run.
The 80% furnace will need a metal flue that goes outside. This is a piece of double-walled sheet metal pipe that is fairly large outside diameter, like 8" or so. It doesn't *have* to go straight up from the basement to the roof - it can go up, turn and run horizontally for a while, then turn and go up again - but finding a space for it in an existing house can be a challenge.
The 90% and up furnaces can be vented to the outside with PVC drain pipe. The pipe size depends on how big of a furnace you have and how many twists and turns are in the pipe, but usually, around a 3" pipe will do it. Sometimes it's easier to find a place to put a 3" PVC pipe than an 8" metal pipe. Often this pipe can go through the side wall of the house, rather than having to run all the way up to the roof. If it goes through the side wall, there are rules about how far away it has to be from doors, windows, etc.
The more efficient furnaces also need a fresh air pipe that comes from outside. This is the same size PVC pipe as the exhaust. It is often installed next to the exhaust pipe, but I don't think this is a requirement... if the furnace is in the basement, you can do things like have the fresh air pipe come in through the basement wall, and have the exhaust pipe go up through the house and out of the roof.
If you have a big, open, basement, some installers will skip the fresh air pipe and just let the furnace draw air from inside the basement. My personal feeling is that this is a bad idea, and in some places it might be prohibited by the building code. PVC pipe is pretty cheap and easy to install.
A 90% and up furnace will also need a drain line for the *furnace* - they pull enough heat out of the exhaust that the water vapor condenses out and doesn't go up the flue. This isn't a very big deal... if the furnace is in the basement, it's usually something like a 3/4" PVC pipe running to a floor drain in the basement. It doesn't have to be plumbed in like a sink; the end of the pipe from the furnace just sits on top of the floor drain and water drips out of the pipe into the drain. If you also have central air conditioning, the furnace installer can plumb the inside air conditioner drain (A-coil drain) and the furnace drain into the same pipe.
Sometimes there are federal, state, or local rebates or tax credits for adding insulation. Your electric or gas utility will probably know about them, as will people that install insulation. Sometimes adding insulation will let you use the next smaller size gas furnace, which helps offset some of the cost of the insulation.
Unless you know the wiring in the house is tip-top, I don't know if I would go with space heaters as a fix. They pull a *lot* of juice and are good at finding bad connections inside the wall. People are also not good at keeping blankets, curtains, etc off of them.
I hope this helps!
First you have to educate them that they are not getting a $500 heating bill. Thier average electric bill is $150 and during heating months it is $350 to add heat to that for a total of $500. They cannot compare it to their neighbors gas only bill. Is the unit a mirror of the other side ? If so it may be more expensive but if the neighbors can keep the mirror image unit within manageable costs they are the issue. $900 is high last time I had this happen come to find out the bill was for 2 months not one like they thought. The other issue occurred when the last month was estimated and this was not. These were both students. I got thermostats that max at 70 so you can't "accidently" put at 85 but that was where I was paying for heat. If you have the opportunity to convert to gas for a reasonable cost I would install for both and change over when the next door unit is vacant. not sure I would want to switch an occupied unit. Improving the building envelopewill help so you might want to get an energy audit from the power company
While I agree with you about educating tenants and the fact they don't realize they're paying for household electric use plus heat, how long/often do you (or the OP) want to swim against the current on this? There is a stigma with electric heat, at least in Philadelphia, as it's one of the first questions I get asked is does the unit have gas or electric heat. If it's contributing to a smaller/less desirable tenant pool or to higher turnover, it's worth changing, especially since she already has ductwork.
Absolutely Troy. This is my second set of tenants I'm going through. To me, it's more stress than it's worth if I can find a better solution. I don't want to deal with the shock every winter and then late rent payments because the heating bills are too high.
For electric heat, ductless heat pumps will probably be least expensive long term solution at a cost of about $600-1000 a unit for 12k-24k btu and they typically have the highest efficiency in cold weather. Another option is a portable heat pump at a cost of about $200-400 per unit for 10k-14k btu. Plug in base heaters are only $25 and construction heaters that put out about 4 times as much heat are only $50 with Amazon prime.
@Troy SheetsMe, I have to swim against the tide, gas is NOT an option for my property, not available and not going to be available. and bottled gas is more expensive then electric. That being said I am just recommending that the OP make sure there is an issue and analyze conversion costs
My experience is I had tenants calling about an electric bill and it was for two months , a correction for an estimated bill, or the tenant set the heat on 80. We provide heat bill history so there should not be a shock and they know and they can call the electric company and some walk away before renting, that is okay with me. I feel like I have made them aware of the cost when they complain and I am happy to trouble shoot issues.
For conversion this is an economic decision I would also look at costs, how long will it take the OP to recoup costs for conversion? Is the gas in the street or up the road. Is there more then one option? You look at a gas conversion vs heat pump , is one is a 5 year payback and one a 20 year?
@Crystal Dundaswhy is one unit doing okay but not the other? are they the same? If they are may not matter if you put in gas they are still going to be paying higher bills because either you are poorly insulated in the unit or they are wasteful.
@Crystal DundasElectric heat is definitely expensive and an issue with retaining renters. I have it in a house that's well insulated and it's been high for all tenants, even those who were careful with their heat. I would get prices for a gas heater and for a heat pump (you can also check out mini-split systems, which have the bonus of providing cooling, but since you have ducts already the other options may make more sense.)
You can absolutely have one unit electric the other gas, you just can't have one gas heater serve both units and bill to one tenant.
Another option which I've been using for my tenants while I procrastinate on selecting a from the choices above, is offer to raise their rent $25/mnth and give them $100 off per month Dec, Jan, and Feb. Or give them a bit more than that off and eat the difference.
Personally I've been subsidizing the heat costs a bit with a winter rent discount, my fault for procrastinating. Combine with putting up window plastic for them, door snakes or weather stripping, maybe a programmable thermostat, and the education tactics. Also, an easy oversight, sometimes the top part of the windows slip down so that they don't latch properly, a lot of heat can be lost there without realizing it.
you mentioned paying for the heat yourself. Don't do it. tenants will leave windows open run it hot and not turn it down. If you try and control it the will complain about it being to hot or to cold. go with the gas but make sure you get different meters for each tenant. where I am from they will put meters on for free they want new customers.