tenant wants language in lease to make landlord liable

tenant wants language in lease to make landlord liable

Investor · Arlington, VA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 1 vote

I'm just starting to rent my house out.  I selected a tenant with an excellent background check.  I presented her my rental agreement, which says in part:

"All personal property on premises shall be and remain at tenant's sole risk, and owner shall not be liable for any damage to or loss of such personal property arising from any cause whatsoever. Tenant understands that it is advisable to obtain personal property and premises liability renter's insurance from a provider of tenant's choice."

She refused to sign, and proposed instead that it should say:

"All personal property on premises shall be and remain at tenant's sole risk, and owner shall not be liable for any damage to or loss of such personal property unless caused by the owner's negligence.  Owner is liable for damages or injury to tenant or guests if caused by owner's negligence.  If owner fails to repair a problem after being notified by the tenant, owner assumes liability for resulting damages."

Is the tenant's request reasonable?  It seems to leave important things out, like allowing a reasonable time for owner to perform repairs after tenant's notification.  But even if the wording is improved to cover that, is it reasonable?  Though I hope it never happens, what if some accident like a burst pipe happens to damage the tenant's property and it's later determined to be something the owner was responsible for (but the owner was not grossly negligent).  With a typical, well-written rental agreement, would the owner be liable for the tenant's property damages in such a situation?

Thanks.

0Reply
18 views

Most Popular Reply

Lender · Wilton, CT · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 8 votes
10y

I am not a lawyer but do own investment property, have tenants and have entered into hundreds of contracts. You should never agree to lease/contract language that makes you uncomfortable. The use of "negligence" in your prospective tenant's language counter is much to broad of a term and leaves too much open to interpretation, confusion and liability on your end in the event of a dispute (which will happen). Any time a business relationship starts off on the wrong foot it never ends well, and this in my opinion, is the wrong foot. The language you proposed is standard, boilerplate and not unreasonable--my suggestion, find a new tenant, no matter how qualified she seems it won't be worth the agitation she will give you down the road. Not to mention, I am not sure what the law in VA is, but in MA where I have property, tenants must have renters insurance and you shouldn't have a tenant unless he/she agrees to get it.

See this reply in the discussion

23 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Lender · Wilton, CT · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    I am not a lawyer but do own investment property, have tenants and have entered into hundreds of contracts. You should never agree to lease/contract language that makes you uncomfortable. The use of "negligence" in your prospective tenant's language counter is much to broad of a term and leaves too much open to interpretation, confusion and liability on your end in the event of a dispute (which will happen). Any time a business relationship starts off on the wrong foot it never ends well, and this in my opinion, is the wrong foot. The language you proposed is standard, boilerplate and not unreasonable--my suggestion, find a new tenant, no matter how qualified she seems it won't be worth the agitation she will give you down the road. Not to mention, I am not sure what the law in VA is, but in MA where I have property, tenants must have renters insurance and you shouldn't have a tenant unless he/she agrees to get it.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    Are you in a very competitive market where it is tough to get  tenants? If it is reasonably easy to get good tenants i wouldn't budge on my lease.

  • Real Estate Agent · San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 172 posts · 66 votes
    10y

    how hard is it to rent out this property?  This tenant sounds like she might be a real pain to deal with.  As landlords we already have enough liability through laws, we don't need to add anymore in our leases.   I say move on and find somebody else.

  • Glendale, CA · Member since 2013 · 303 posts · 67 votes
    10y

    Sounds like a professional tenant.  

  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    10y

    On the one hand I don't think the tenant is asking for something she isn't legally entitled to anyhow, but her asking you to put it in writing would make me nervous as well. Sounds like she might be litigious. 

  • part-time investor/landlord · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 27 votes
    10y

    it is your property, these are the terms, this is your lease......

    I would not even blink to say no about changing my lease for someone.

    And if a tenant wants this wording on the contract, there is something fishy already going on.

    I would already consider not renting to this tenant even if there are no changes to your contract.

  • Investor · Henderson, NC · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 208 votes
    10y

    DO NOT EVER let the tenant write the lease. EVER! Even if they are right and you are wrong, this creates a precedent that you do not want to set. Your house, your rules. If they don't like the lease you can point to the door.

    My standard response to lease complaints is "there are five other people that want this unit if you're not interested".

    Make it clear you are the boss on your property. Your original wording is pretty standard.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    Is the tenant an attorney?  If not, then they shouldn't be attempting to write or make changes to a legal document.  In any case, I wouldn't agree to it.

  • Roswell, GA · Member since 2015 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    If it were me and I didn't have a backup tenant, I would probably delete the last sentence and change it to "gross negligence" instead of negligence. *Please do not take this as legal advice, just my 2 cents.
  • Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y

    No signature no keys. Move on.

    Personally, I'd drop her like a stone at this point, has all the hallmarks of being a pain in the future ***.

  • Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    10y

    Excellent advice as to not renting to this tenant. Tenants do not write your lease.

    I would not rent to this applicant even if she did withdraw her request as she has indicated she may be a difficult tenant. She may not but it is not in your best interest to gamble once a red flag has gone up. Move on to someone that will appreciate renting from you as opposed to someone that starts off believing they are in control.

  • Investor · Weston, WI · Member since 2016 · 105 posts · 114 votes
    10y

    I'm hearing lots of people tell you to move on to a new tenant because this one sounds litigious. I'm not a lawyer but I read all contracts I sign carefully and will at times offer addendums to leases and contracts. I have never sued anyone.

    That being said, your original lease does not seem onerous and I see no reason to include the addended portion. The easiest response is that it is policy to not change the lease. I wouldn't be afraid of this tenant though just because he offered an addendum. If he insists, then I would probably look for a new tenant.

  • Gino BarbaroPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Sid Langley

    Hi Sid

    I would not alter the language to your lease.  Have her go out and spend 15 bucks a month for tenant insurance and never assume any liability.  In my experience, the law favors tenants, as it should, because this is their primary residence.   No need to give the court more ammo.

    Gino

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    1) Agreed, "the writing is on the wall" as far as dealing with this tenant over the long haul.

    2) One of my favorite answers, as in when people ask if I'll reduce my commission,

        "No, any other questions?"

  • Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 570 posts · 521 votes
    10y

    Any prospective tenant that even attempted to provide a new clause for a my lease would never end up being a tenant.

    Outside of real estate in my business we use a contract over and over again, hundreds and hundreds of times a year. In the last 10 years I've had 5-6 potential customers (all lawyers) want to modify the contract. They have two choices, accept it as is or we walk away. Our contracts are to protect our interests not the customers.

    If you're new and you think there might be something funky in your lease hire an attorney to review your lease, DO NOT let a tenant do it no matter what. Your lease has to be legally fair to your tenant but it doesn't have to be worded to your tenants advantage.

  • Investor · Henderson, NC · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 208 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Eric M.:

    I'm hearing lots of people tell you to move on to a new tenant because this one sounds litigious. I'm not a lawyer but I read all contracts I sign carefully and will at times offer addendums to leases and contracts. I have never sued anyone.

    It's not that out of line to suggest a change to a contract, but, to me it sounds like this person is nitpicking and trying to play google-lawyer. It would be more common to negotiate a commercial lease, but that is generally because there are no laws that protect commercial tenants. In a residence, the tenant has a bunch of rights regardless of what the lease says.

    I wouldn't so much be afraid of this person suing me, but rather, complaining and being picky about everything.

  • Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
    10y

    what your perspective tenant is asking for is boilerplate law in my state. You could update your language but on your own terma. You still want to have in the contract that you encourage the tenant to obtain renters insurance as you or your insurance does not cover any damage or property loss caused by anything outside your control. To be negligent to a point of incurring liability is pretty hard if you simply do the minimum required for proper management of a rental, in my opinion. 

    I update my lease about yearly. Whether it is adding language here and there or clarifying something. I might up termination fees or set fees for other common infractions. 

  • St Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 575 posts · 408 votes
    10y

    @Sid Langley A tenant wants to edit your lease and insert their own language increasing your liability? You would have to be truly desperate to fill a vacancy before you would ever consider such a thing. Even if the wording does not lead to you paying out the symbolism here is rich. First of all, the tenant is pushing you around. If you agree to this then heaven knows what will be next. Second, in my experience tenants who create difficulties during the application process go on to be sheer torture if you let them into your property. Think about it, this is when they are on their best behavior and want something from you, namely acceptance. What will this tenant be like once they are in? Even if they don't cook up some reason to sue you (why exactly do they want to push liability on you, do you think?) there could be endless maintenance requests, attempts to set their own terms for payment of rent and other problems. All sorts of bad tenant behavior often go together. There are tenants out there that do not want to rewrite your lease in terms that work against you. Look and you will find them.

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    10y

    Tenant sounds like they will be a PITA, have them sign ad is or find someone else.

  • Investor · Arlington, VA · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    10y

    Thank you all very much for the thoughtful suggestions.  It's very helpful.  I know what I need to do. :-)  Have a great weekend.

  • Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Sid Langley If you did decide to take this tenant on for some crazy reason I would require they get renters insurance. 

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Michael Noto:

    @Sid Langley If you did decide to take this tenant on for some crazy reason I would require they get renters insurance. 

     I would not just require it I would follow up to make sure they actually got it. 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.