Who pays for this damage?

Question

Hello, I searched the forums, but could not find an answer for this question.

I am repairing damages done by my tenants since they've moved out. There is a huge water stain in the master bathroom ceiling (see photo). I believe it was caused by a leaking AC condensate drain line in the attic right above it. Of course, the leaking pipe is not the tenant's fault, but I could have fixed it had they informed me at the first sign of water stains in the ceiling. They didn't, so now it's like this. I believe they are partially responsible for it. Am I right?

Account Closed · Answer

Judges want evidence.  Even though I understand where you are coming from, the Judge doesn't care where you are coming from.

A Judge will most likely will ask you how often you make inspections of your rental units.

A Judge most likely will say that you should be on top of these things.  And stuff like this is sad because we as landlords do get stuck with a lot of stuff.

Plus, the tenant can go to court and say they told you about it, but you didn't do anything about it and that is why they moved.

Repairs on your property are expense accounts, so it's not a total loss for you to have to bite the bullet and do it yourself when it is a "hard to prove" damage of whose fault it is.  What came first, the chicken or the egg.  Would of, should of, could of.....

Nancy Neville

David Dachtera · Answer

@Chris Eaker

Have a word with your HVAC company, also. You may need someone more diligent and thorough.

I've done HVAC and it's no fun crawling around in a hot attic, or scraping the tar and gravel off your shoes when you come down off the roof. It's too easy to slack off and not do a proper job.

That's the primary reason why I changed to IT back in the late 70's: to give up a life of grime.

Brandon Ingegneri · Answer

I'm not gonna try to beat you up like the first guy did, but I'll tell you I just had a very very similar situation. Am I annoyed that the tenant with the leak on the ceiling didn't tell me, yes you bet. Was it his fault, no. It's just one of those situations where it is the cost of doing business unfortunately. Fix it, move on, and explain to your tenant that they need to keep you in the loop.

Uou aren't going to inspect the inside of each of your units every month. Tenants have a responsibility to report obvious issues. You can't go after them financially though if they weren't the cause.

Joe Splitrock · Answer

@Chris Eaker like others I have a clause in my lease that says tenants must notify me of problems immediately or they are responsible for the damage that occurs by not notifying me. Honestly those clauses are worthless and would be impossible to win in court. Every time I notice a leak my tenants just say, "oh yeah that just started" or "I didn't notice that". No way to prove they are lying and tenants are only responsible for damages they cause. Don't be fooled into a sense of security by lease clauses. You need to inspect your property - nobody cares as much as you do.

I do wonder why you are paying an HVAC guy to go there twice a year and yet this happened? I would ask them to cover the repair cost and see what they say. I only bring HVAC onsite for repairs and very occasional cleaning/inspections - like every 5 years. Just change the filter regularly and you are good.

James DeRoest · Answer

It's your responsibility. Full stop.

And it doesn't matter how quickly the tenant notifies you, you will still have a water stained ceiling, and you'll still have to paint it.

Marcia Maynard · Answer

One of the things that is hardest on a building is water going where it shouldn't be going. When a tenant moves in, I alert them of this fact. I tell them if they ever notice a leak of any kind, let me know right away. Then I put a clause about it in my rental agreement.

MAINTENANCE OF PREMISES. Landlord will maintain all electrical, plumbing, heating, and other facilities and appliances supplied by Landlord in reasonably good working order.Landlord will perform periodic inspections of the premises, no less than once a year, for the purpose of property maintenance and repair.Landlord will notify Tenant in advance of the inspection. Tenant agrees to allow Landlord timely access to premises to do maintenance and repair.Tenant will notify Landlord in a timely manner of any damages or problems as they arise, including damages caused by Tenant, malfunction of appliances or fixtures, and water/moisture leaks and spots.Tenant will take care of the premises, keeping them clean and clear of debris.

In your case, the tenant may have been oblivious to what was happening, or saw it and didn't care to tell you. If you have a good landlord-tenant relationship, the tenant will most likely let you know as soon as they see a problem. In any case, it would be hard to charge this one back on the tenant unless you could prove they had intentionally done wrong by not informing you. A water leak can cause a lot of damage quickly. Fix it and move on. Consider adding a clause like mine to your rental agreement.

David Dachtera · Answer

@Chris Eaker

Make this part of your life going forward:

Stop assigning blame to others, do what needs to be done and move on.

Just a bit of advice, REI to REI.

Account Closed · Answer

If you have evidence of that, that's good!  That will hold up in court.  I always tell people to keep receipts and make sure you have evidence in order to prove your credibility when it comes to repairs.  So since you have that, you can charge the tenant for the repair, and if they contest it, and you go to court, present the Judge with the receipt of the inspection and let the Judge decide.

Case closed

Nancy Neville

John S. · Answer

@Chris Eaker   This is the responsibility of the Landlord. You have point that the tenant should have said something to you before but that does not really make it their responsibility to pay for it.  Have the line insulated by your HVAC guys and get a couple cans of Kilz. This is an easy fix and it happens some times.  Sorry bud. This is a landlord responsibility (wear and tear). If you want to tell the tenants next Landlord that they failed to mention a condensation issue, go ahead. The tenants didn't cause the problem and some tenants are not smart enough to know water damage rather than just aging sheetrock.

Robert P. · Answer

I have in my lease to alert any water leaks/stains/etc. immediately. If they do not do this and a bigger problem arises, they will be responsible. We have them initial that line item to make sure they "read it" even though they sign again saying they read the entire lease.

If this is not in your lease, then you may have an issue, but I totally agree that if you were notified, then maybe you could fix it. But I'm sure the tenant would not notice until the ceiling got discolored, so either way you would have to fix it. In other words, I don't think there would be any way for the tenant to alert you prior to the ceiling becoming discolored.

Who pays for this damage?

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