Tenant says she didn't receive 60 day rent increase California

Fresno, CA · Member since 2015 · 552 posts · 181 votes

I have a tenant claiming she did not receive the rent increase. For the past couple years we have sent two.

I mailed it through regular mail. It's for a rental in California. Non-rent controlled.

The rent is automatically paid and we increased her rent on her auto payments and she is now claiming that all the previous payments weren't valid.

Isn't the letter in regular mail sufficient? She's now claiming I need to reimburse her this past rent and she claims it invalidates the current increase.

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Nicole A.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

You will need to look up your local county and state's rental laws. At this point, it's your word against hers because you have no proof that you sent this notice since it was just regular mail. You always send notices such as this in a manner that provides you better proof. Even if California says regular mail is fine, it sets you up for exactly this situation.

I suggest that you first try to work this out with your tenant. Send the notice immediately saying it's effective in however many minimum days is required to give notice. So if it's 30 days, and you send it now, the rent increase would happen in August rather than July.

Send it multiple ways. Email. Certified Mail. Post on the door.

Offer to either refund the difference in her past rent or to credit it towards next month's rent. Again, check your laws, but this should be something you can work out with your tenant without rent court. Cali isn't known for siding with landlords when it comes to disputes.

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Wayne Brooks
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
8y
Well, I wouldn’t send a required notice through regular mail.
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Nicole A.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
You will need to look up your local county and state's rental laws. At this point, it's your word against hers because you have no proof that you sent this notice since it was just regular mail. You always send notices such as this in a manner that provides you better proof. Even if California says regular mail is fine, it sets you up for exactly this situation.
I suggest that you first try to work this out with your tenant. Send the notice immediately saying it's effective in however many minimum days is required to give notice. So if it's 30 days, and you send it now, the rent increase would happen in August rather than July.
Send it multiple ways. Email. Certified Mail. Post on the door.
Offer to either refund the difference in her past rent or to credit it towards next month's rent. Again, check your laws, but this should be something you can work out with your tenant without rent court. Cali isn't known for siding with landlords when it comes to disputes.
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Dick Rosen
Property Manager · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 451 votes
8y
Check the local laws but in AZ we send those notices by regular First Class Mail and by Certified Mail to satisfy the judge. Tenants will typically get the First Class mail but ignore the Certified mail. The courts consider the Certified Mail delivered after 5 days, if they don't get it, it's returned to you and the court accepts that as proof that you sent it and the tenant ignored it. That's how it works here.
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Rob D.
Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 280 posts · 111 votes
8y
That’s why you don’t send rent increases by mail.......you never send ANY correspondence much less a rent increase to a tenant regular mail. It may be lost in the mail or it may be lost in their trash can. Everything gets sent registered and signature required. I usually send a email text and I call to tell the tenants.
How long has this tenant been with you? Assuming over a 12 month consecutive timeline they just bought themselves another 60 days from your mistake. If less than 12 months then 30 days
My suggestion is to send them a registered signature request rent raise.
For the previous rent raise where she wants to be reimbursed I would say ok I’ll credit your account for the difference. Even though you knowingly sent or allowed me to pull the additional amount out without saying anything nor contesting the additional amount at the time I’ll credit you you but I will have to raise the rent to x amount from this point forward. I would do 10% over the most recent rent raise amount she supposedly did not get. You’ll know pretty quickly if they magically “find” or “remember” the old notices
Or you “negotiate “ down that 10% additional to your last rent raise amount. That’s if you wanna prove a point.
If not then simply credit her then send the rent raise notice for whatever the new amount you raised.
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Mike CumbieBusiness Member
REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
8y
Hi @Susan O.,
I agree with the others, however how long is she talking about? Is she saying over the past 2 years she wants credit for? If so I would't even entertain it. Let her sue me and tell a judge that she set a precedent for 2 years of paying the required amount and then now decides it's too much. I assume you at least have a copy of the letter you sent. If it is $50 over 2 months or something, fine here is your notice stating rent is going up, sign here stating I am not admitting guilt, but providing you this as a customer service courtesy.
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Sam Shueh
Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
Words words words.... People do not read their mail....

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Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
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Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
8y
In a litigious, tenant-friendly state like the People's Republik of Kalifornia, I would send it by certified mail, email, and text. Don't assume it's received; get proof of receipt. Even a text response back would probably be sufficient.
Suck it up as a learning event and do it the right way right now.
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Rob D.
Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2015 · 280 posts · 111 votes
8y
Originally posted by @Sam Shueh:

Words words words.... People do not read their mail....
That’s why you cover your bases and send signature request text and email and ask for a response. Last resort you tell the tenant you’re going over and hand it to them directly.
As for the past rent wanting a refund you can fight that as her paying rent all that time sets a precedent as a acceptance of new rent amount. But it’s up to you.
How much are we talking about the first rent raise amount?
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Susan O.
OP
Fresno, CA · Member since 2015 · 552 posts · 181 votes
8y
Just fyi for all I talked to a lawyer.
He said that in California the law is that you don't send it certified. You just send it through regular first class mail and put a first class normal stamp on it. That's it!
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Kyle J.
Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
8y
@Susan O. Your lawyer is correct, in California if you’re mailing the notice the law says to send it via first-class mail. That’s how you should send it because that’s how the law specifies. Hopefully you also kept a copy of the notice with the date on it. If you did that, combined with the fact that it sounds like the tenant paid the new increased amount when it was due, I personally wouldn’t be concerned at all about her unreasonable request and wouldn’t even consider reimbursing her for anything.
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Susan O.
OP
Fresno, CA · Member since 2015 · 552 posts · 181 votes
8y
Yeah the lawyer said those notices aren't supposed to even be certified. Just regular first-class forever stamp.
I suppose that makes the tenant hooked to the rent increase whether they 'claim they didn't receive it' or not
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Wesley W.
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
Your attorney may be legally accurate, however - from a practical business standpoint it opens you up for exactly this type of claim. Most of the people that have posted (including myself) have learned from experience to tighten these kinds of things up to leave nothing up to interpretation.
It's interesting your attorney said it was perfectly fine. I wonder whom you might need to hire to iron this sort of legal ambiguity out?
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Nicole A.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
@Susan O. -- I must say that I completely agree with @Wesley W.. Sure just sending it first class is what's legally required, but why not go above and beyond that to help protect yourself further? First class does not typically require signature or even definite confirmation of receipt...so tenants can just say they didn't receive it.
Also, not all lawyers are that great at their job. ;-)
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Susan O.
OP
Fresno, CA · Member since 2015 · 552 posts · 181 votes
8y
What are others in California doing then? I read the law it says for California rent raises to do first class mail or post it
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Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
8y
Tell her you actually made a mistake in the rent increase , it wasnt a 10% increase , it was a 100% increase . I bet she will have that letter as proof it was only 10%
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Thomas S.
Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
8y
@Mike Cumbie
Mike is 100% on with his advice and exactly what I would advise. All the fuss over the letter is irrelevant. This is the advice I would give and in my opinion the only advice necessary.
Tell her to take you to court. Her claim is BS...Put on your big boy landlord pants and call her bluff.
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Bryan Zuetel
Attorney · Orange County, CA · Member since 2017 · 242 posts · 99 votes
8y
@Susan O., you increased her automatic payments without a signed authorization for the higher automatic payment amount? It appears that you followed the California law as written for the rent increase by mailing the notice with first class mail. But, the unauthorized increase in her auto payments is concerning.
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Matt K.
Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
8y
What's the wording around the auto payments? I feel like that's a bigger hangup than the formality of if she actually got the letter or not.
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Susan O.
OP
Fresno, CA · Member since 2015 · 552 posts · 181 votes
8y
Well I raised the rent normally and they understand that we raised the rents.
But then the tenant is claiming she didn't know that I raised it on the auto pay system. Well the auto pay system is just set up they sign up for it on Buildium I just have to increase the rents on Buildium platform when I send the notice after the 30-60 days
Theres noting in the lease about electronic payments. I use Buildium for that
Do you think tis is an issue?
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