I am very skeptical about renting to an individual

Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes

Hello all,

So I wanted to have an open discussion of my current situation. I have multifamily unit and I am currently looking for a tenant. I have the price at a reasonable price and I came across this one female who has great income and job history. I am currently waiting for her POR so I can just ask a few questions from her previous landlord. My issue is that it is a 1 bedroom and she wants to move in with 3 kids under 7. I just want to hear some suggestions and opinions and options. I am very new to real estate investing so hearing what I should do would be great

Thanks

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Lynnette E.

Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

You should have a hard and firm rule about occupancy. My parent always used no more than 2 people (note, people not kids) per room occupancy. They only were in non-compliance with the rule when they rented to the maximum occupancy and the renters got preggers and added another kid. That situation you can not avoid.

BTW, if she has 3 kids under 7 she will have a boy friend moving in shortly. It always happens!

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RJ Reynolds
Realtor · Westwood, MA · Member since 2015 · 145 posts · 67 votes
7y
Tread carefully and consult an attorney if necessary. you probably can't refuse her just because she has kids and could get in trouble and I'm not experienced enough myself to tell you how to say no in a way that doesn't get you in trouble. I do believe it's as simple as "No" with no explanation but again, as soon as you start to talk about how she has kids.. it could become a situation where she feels discriminated against for having kids.
Unless it's a big place square foot wise. I probably wouldn't rent to FOUR people with one bedroom.
2 Reply
Ronesha Fisher
OP
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
7y
@RJ Reynolds thank you so much for your comment and I haven’t said anything about kids she was checking out the unit and mentioned it. The unit is very small and for 4 people especially the small children I’m not sure it will be enough room. Thanks again
0 Reply
Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
Find somebody else . They will destroy the place
8 Reply
Ronesha Fisher
OP
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Dennis M. Thanks that’s another thought that came to mind!!!
1 Reply
Sylvia B.
Rental Property Investor · Douglas County, MO · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
4 people in 1 bedroom is too many. Just say no.
3 Reply
Craig Jeppesen
Rental Property Investor · Chubbuck, ID · Member since 2018 · 532 posts · 466 votes
7y
Definitely no. Too small.
0 Reply
Ronesha Fisher
OP
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Sylvia B. Thanks!
0 Reply
Ronesha Fisher
OP
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Craig Jeppesen I agree! Thanks
0 Reply
Lynnette E.
Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
You should have a hard and firm rule about occupancy. My parent always used no more than 2 people (note, people not kids) per room occupancy. They only were in non-compliance with the rule when they rented to the maximum occupancy and the renters got preggers and added another kid. That situation you can not avoid.
BTW, if she has 3 kids under 7 she will have a boy friend moving in shortly. It always happens!
9 Reply
Hubert Kim
Property Manager · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 216 posts · 110 votes
7y
Federal housing guidelines go by square footage and per bedroom, but it is a bit confusing. Also, your local city/state regulations may have specifics, but in California, the accepted occupancy limits is 2 occupants per bedroom plus 1 occupant. So under normal circumstances, a typical 1 bedroom unit will occupy up to 3 occupants.
5 Reply
Ronesha Fisher
OP
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Lynnette E. Yes thanks I agree so I just decided to list again but being a little more clear on the occupancy for the living space and if it takes me longer than I just rather have the right tenant!
1 Reply
Ronesha Fisher
OP
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Hubert Kim right with 3 in a one bedroom that’s 4 people and a possible boyfriend no thank you lol
2 Reply
Wesley W.
Rental Property Investor · The Vampire State · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
As @Hubert Kim mentioned, I would use the HUD guideline or your local municipality, whichever is more restrictive. In my area it's pretty easy because Code Enforcement places a limit on each unit (and they put that limit on the CO). They use the HUD limits, by the way.
Definitely point to the occupancy limits when rejecting, rather than size of her family.
Moving forward, market the unit with the occupancy limit in the ad.
4 Reply
Ronesha Fisher
OP
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Wesley W. Learn something everyday I am going to check that site out because this will be an ongoing process for me and yes from this point forward I am going specify my occupancy just to avoid this situation again
Thank you
0 Reply
Michael Noto
Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
@Ronesha Fisher A lot of towns and cities have occupancy limits when it comes to the amount of people who can live in an apartment based on the number of bedrooms. Check into that before even considering this applicant any further would be my suggestion.
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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Lynnette E.:

You should have a hard and firm rule about occupancy. My parent always used no more than 2 people (note, people not kids) per room occupancy. They only were in non-compliance with the rule when they rented to the maximum occupancy and the renters got preggers and added another kid. That situation you can not avoid.
BTW, if she has 3 kids under 7 she will have a boy friend moving in shortly. It always happens!
or multiple baby daddys DRAMA destroyed unit.. etc..
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3 Reply
Brandon Penn
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 84 posts · 462 votes
7y
I hold the standard of no more than 2 occupants per room. So if it is a 1 bedroom I would say 4 is way too many unless there is some kind of bonus room. The other thing I would add is to listen to you gut if it gives you a negative feeling. We all know not to rent to someone just by gut instinct, but I will say any time that a person looked good on paper but my gut said no, it turned out badly if I rented to them. Also I find children tend to be more destructive to an apartment than animals. So how would you feel if it was 1 person with 3 dogs?
0 Reply
Brian Hamel
Nashua, NH · Member since 2017 · 66 posts · 58 votes
7y
@Ronesha Fisher
I spoke with my lawyer about this exact scenario. I limit occupants which she says is completely legal. My units are mostly 2 bedrooms so I never allow more than three on second or third floor. It’s not age dependent. It’s a disturbance issue no matter the age.
0 Reply
Damian Smith
Developer · Marlton, NJ · Member since 2019 · 44 posts · 8 votes
7y
@Ronesha Fisher
Just say that you can not accommodate the amount of people . I always turn down people if space and usage do not connect work
0 Reply
Ronesha Fisher
OP
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Brian Hamel I was saying the same thing because with a female living downstairs by herself it will be to much bearing babies cry and she’s one of my best tenants!
0 Reply
Ronesha Fisher
OP
Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 5 votes
7y
@Damian Smith I didn’t want to say anything about the children at all but I did let her know in a polite way
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
7y
I recommend you read the specific HUD memo that addresses occupancy. It states that a general rule of two occupants per bedroom is acceptable, but not absolute. If someone were to file a discrimination claim, they would look at other details including layout, size of the rooms, state / local rules and age of the occupants.
For example, two adult parents sharing a one bedroom apartment with their infant child is allowable. Strictly enforcing a two occupant per bedroom rule in that case would be a fair housing violation.
If a bedroom was oversized, it may accommodate more than two children. In that case restricting to two occupants would be a fair housing violation.
There is also consideration given for someone sleeping in a living room, which is where the often cited "2+1" rule comes from.
State and city also may have rules that further give guidance.
Assuming in your situation the bedroom is normal sized, it seems completely reasonable to tell the applicant they exceed the number of allowable occupants. Explain it is for their safety. Occupancy standards are a direct result of fire safety concerns.
Read this document which is HUD's guidance on the issue. You will see a strict "2 per bedroom" rule doesn't cut it.
https://www.hud.gov/sites/documents/DOC_7780.PDF
2 Reply
Andrea Townsley
Real Estate Agent · Gainesville, FL · Member since 2019 · 63 posts · 52 votes
7y
Just to preface this, we have four kids 7 and under and are expecting our fifth. We wouldn’t personally do less than three bedrooms as we will have a boy room and a girl room (doesn’t matter so much right now as they are all little, but they are still 2 to a room). Baby stays in our room till they are weaned. Most places we have lived have a limit of 2 per bedroom plus 1 (which is because babies don’t need their own room, and I would honestly stretch that to two if it was my rental bc what if twins?).
As it applies to you, if it was a two bedroom I wouldn’t care about three kids in one room. But a one bedroom means they are either all in the same room or someone is in the living room, and neither of those situations is good for anyone.
Side note based on some comments I saw: Please do not make assumptions about the place getting trashed. We have always left a place in better condition than we got it. We might be an exception to the rule but that’s what a security deposit is for. Comments such as this, assuming you would follow through on a NO due to family size (ignoring occupancy limits), violate the Fair Housing Act.
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Andrea Townsley
Real Estate Agent · Gainesville, FL · Member since 2019 · 63 posts · 52 votes
7y
I also have to add that I’m absolutely appalled by the hearing babies cry comment. I sincerely hope nobody would reject a potential tenant bc they have a baby! Kids whine, babies cry, that’s life. People need to get over being bothered by kids being kids. If they don’t like it, they can go rent in a 55+ community where it’s legal to discriminate based on age and family size.
And again, you’re in violation of the Fair Housing Act if you would actually not rent to a family with a baby or young children.
0 Reply
Dennis M.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2018 · 6k+ posts · 9k+ votes
7y
@Jay Hinrichs
Yes Jay .. this is why “ certain “ landlords don’t rent to young single moms running away from home . In lower income areas you will get 90% of your applicants that fit this criteria . As my friend says ;You gotta dig through the poop to get to the corn
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