Trouble Tenants...I'm Overwhelmed

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Trouble Tenants...I'm Overwhelmed

Account Closed
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 73 posts · 56 votes

I own a SFH in California which I rented out October 2018. Since day 1, the tenants have been contacting me on a daily/weekly basis requesting repairs.

Some of these repairs are warranted (replaced the water heater, fixed broken windows, fixed faulty sprinkler valves) while others I feel are not (most recently the light bulb in the garage isn't working). 

I've spent well over $5,000 in repairs since they've moved in (it's only been 9 months)  and honestly I'm sick of this. What's worse is that they find fault in many of the repairmen I send over. These are licensed individuals whom I have been working with for over a decade who are loved by all other tenants except these.

Most recently, there's apparently a slew of electrical issues in the house, including a few outlets that don't work, the A/C not cooling, along with the faulty lightbulb in the garage. I sent my electrician to take a look and over the course of a week, between he and his team, they fixed the issues...or so I thought. This morning the tenant contacted me and told me they're still having issues and that the electrician didn't fix everything and that he didn't show up when he said he would. I told them it's their responsibility to make sure all the issues are addressed with the electrician before he leaves to prevent consistent visits over the same problems and to follow up with him if he didn't make the visit.

They proceeded to get mad at me and my electrician, saying that it's not professional for the repairmen to forget what he needs to fix, that I'm blaming them, etc. I've been trying my best all these months to give them the benefit of the doubt and I've worked diligently to fix everything they've brought up within a few weeks time max, but I'm sick of making repairs, I'm sick of being contacted nonstop, and I'm sick of these people hating on my repairmen.

Not sure what my question is here, perhaps I just need to rant to fellow landlords, but any advice you can give with regards to dealing with such tenants would be appreciated.

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Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y

@Account Closed

There's obviously more to this story, and I'm not seeing the ability to look at things from the tenant's side that every successful landlord needs to cultivate. So let me be the tenant's devilish advocate here and don't take anything I say here personally.

Let's look at what you've stated you needed to do in this house in the nine months that you've been renting it out:

1. Replace the water heater.

2. Fix broken windows.

3. Fix faulty sprinkler valves

4. Fix outlets that don't work

5. Fix (central?) A/C

6. Fix one or more lighting sockets that don't work.

7. Remove tree with roots that infiltrated the sewer line, deal with pile of woodchips left by tree removal.

OK, by any reasonable definition, I think you have to admit the house has been a piece-of-s*** for these tenants and was beat to hell when you rented it to them. Because that's a lot of problems cropping up in a very short amount of time.

Did you just buy this place prior to October 2018 and not do a thorough snagging of it? It sure sounds like it. You can't buy a POS cheap, inadequately snag it, dump tenants into it, and not be prepared for the POS to manifest its POS-ness. 

(Well, you can, but you'll lose money every time doing it.)

1. Did you scope the sewer line before you bought the place?

2. Did you check the electrical board?

3. Did you stick a wiring tester in each of the outlets?

4. Did you make sure the lighting sockets weren't faulty?

5. Did you check the age of the water heater?

6. Did you inspect the sprinkler valves?

7. Did you look at the busted windows?

8. Did you run the A/C?

Now, let's talk about your electrician. I'm afraid he's not passing the sniff test.

Your electrician couldn't fix circuit wiring that didn't work, couldn't check and replace outlets, couldn't check and replace lighting sockets/fixtures, and isn't answering the phone when they call him about the fact that they live in a giant fire hazard. If you think that's harsh, well, I'm not an electrician and I can do all that -- it's not rocket science. But you're telling them it's their responsibility to make sure your house is good and fixed for you, and not to whine to you about it. And of course you've mentioned here that everyone else who rents from you thinks that this electrician-of-obviously-questionable-competence is God's gift to alternating current.

A does not equal B does not equal C here.

The windows...you can't rent a house with busted windows. Did the tenants bust them? Or are you complaining that they should have lived happily paying rent for busted windows?

The wood chips -- It was YOUR tree, YOUR contractor didn't clean up after himself. Send a guy down there with a rake or go down there yourself -- - your tenants don't pay you rent to rake out a large chipped tree's worth of wood chips your contractor left behind. Trust me, they don't think of themselves as your free landscaping crew.

In their minds, they feel you should have known the roots were infiltrating the sewer line before they rented it out to you, and now you're hoping they clean up the rest of the mess that they should have never had to deal with, and you should never have put on them.

Just step back and look, once again. They're pissed off because you rented them a POS with a  bad water heater at the end of its service life, bad windows, electrical problems, sewer-line problems, busted sprinklers. You're sick of the situation? You think they're not sick of worrying what the next problem the POS you rented to them is going to throw at them?

I'm not one of those BPers who insist brightly that running rentals is a 100% people job. It isn't. But when you deal with unhappy tenants, you have to be able to put yourself in their shoes. You need to be as harsh on yourself as they are likely to be. Otherwise, you'll never understand their point of view.

I'm sure the analysis I've presented above is unfair to you at certain points, maybe at all points. But what I wanted with you was give you a picture of what it might look like from your tenants' point of view. The goal was not to be accurate, but to run some of your statements through a tenant filter.

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  • Jonathan W.
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2019 · 512 posts · 301 votes
    7y

    @Wesam S. I will agree with you that being disrespectful to repairmen that you have used for other properties is unacceptable.

    There is a certain way to put your tenants in their place when they treat your techs like crap but sometimes you just got to let them rant if they have an opinion, listen and then move on.

    2Reply
  • Alvin Uy
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles · Member since 2019 · 284 posts · 184 votes
    7y

    @Account Closed

    There's a lot of interesting comments on here, but Los Angeles is a different beast due to Rent Control. I own 4 SFR... and a 4-Plex. in Eagle Rock/Glassell Park area, Los Angeles. I do a very thorough screening to find quality tenants upfront. Did you properly screen these tenants before they moved in? I always meet tenants in person when I show vacant properties to get a vibe of their personalities... you can easily spot a complainer by just watching them walk the unit when you are showing the property. Sometimes, I even look into their cars to see how the inside is and how they take care of it... its a good indication of how they will treat your property. I also make sure I call previous landlords on how tenants were... late payments, complaints, etc. In fact, Im doing all of the above now because I have a new vacancy that I've been showing all week.

     As you know, It's very difficult to evict tenants on bad or less than ideal behavior without "just cause" in CA... Particularly in Los Angeles due to Rent Control. "Managing" your tenants can be a headache at times.... sometimes you just need to bite your tongue.   But like someone else mentioned above.  There are always 2 sides to the story.

    Unfortunately, certain repairs and maintenance are your responsibility (roof leaks, plumbing, electrical, etc..).  However, I've learned that throughout the years to add to my lease contracts certain provisions for certain types of petty requests.   I have an addendum on the contracts that says my tenants are responsible for maintenance of certain things (replacing HVAC Filters every 2-3mos, Refrigerator water Filters, Light bulbs... especially Garbage disposals)... of course, I will supply the materials every year (bulbs, filter etc.)  If things break due to negligence or failure to maintain certain provisions then I can hold them liable for repair costs and will take it out of their security deposits.

    By the way, SFR do not abide by the same multi-unit rent control ordinance. You can only raise the rent for multi-units up to 4% annually. However, you can raise the rent of SFR to the 10% limit within a year. What is your lease term agreement like? Are they on a yearly basis or month-to-month?? I have my tenants on a month-to-month basis after the first years lease so this would allow me to do so with a 30day notice. I've raised my rents 3% annually only, but I have a pesky tenant... I will bump it up to the 10%. Failure to pay rent is "just cause" for eviction under Rent Control. Thankfully, I've never had to do that. All my tenants are great because I screened them well.

    At any case, if you don't want to deal with tenants directly.  Just get a property manager to handle the calls.  They are a dime a dozen.  Good Luck!

    2Reply
  • Will Dixon
    Accountant · Corte Madera, CA · Member since 2018 · 73 posts · 88 votes
    7y

    I wrote up a long post and decided It’s ill-advised to diss one of my tenants on a public forum, but I will say, if you aren’t land lording in California it’s hard to understand the OP’s perspective. I’m not trying to sound ostentatious, but I would wager that Californians are THE most high maintenance tenants around. What right do the tenants have to request an entire window be replaced after a little crack has been replaced? A lot of them make requests as if they own the house and it just isn’t up to standard. When people at showings suggest “Well would you consider changing ____?” Or “Can I paint the room ____?”

    Sure, we have great appreciation, but we also get to deal with “gems” that are a nonstop pain in the $&!@.

    4Reply
  • Henry R.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Saratoga County, NY · Member since 2013 · 178 posts · 73 votes
    7y

    @Account Closed You have a lot of good advised and thoughts here from BP. If you want to make peace with them try that if not don't renew the lease, go through the property and start fresh.

    1Reply
  • Jonathan Taylor SmithBusiness Member
    Rental Property Investor · Durham / Raleigh (Triangle), NC · Member since 2015 · 841 posts · 802 votes
    7y

    @Jim K. makes excellent points here... In my case, YES, I expect the tenant to handle minor repairs themselves and I require this in my lease, but I have also first done all the things that Jim suggests as just a routine part of my rehab, since I buy highly distressed properties to begin with. For example, I can be confident in requiring a tenant to handle their own plumbing clogs after the first two weeks of occupancy in my lease, because I've had the full system serviced by a licensed reputable plumber prior to and in between tenants. I know everything was in proper working order before they moved in (because we check), so I can be fairly certain of what repairs are on me (because things do break in homes over time) and what are due to their own actions and thus on them to handle.

    Reading over this thread I can see how I would feel as the tenant in this case, as enough is enough with all the issues. I'd still not likely renew their lease, as the relationship may now be damaged beyond repair. But certainly put some money into the property to get everything right before renting it again - and it seems you may need it vacant to do all the work that is needed.

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    1Reply
  • Javier D.
    Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    7y

    @Wesam S.

    If this is class A or B property you will get class A or B tenants. They are clean, respectful and pay on time. In turn they expect a good product where their landlord doesnt act like they are doing them favors over justified repairs. At the second or third service call for important things such as basic living issues (water heater/electrical issues) I would have had my repair guys give me a full list of the issues. Seems like you cut corners prior to move in and you are reacting to tenants. Now tenants are sour with a magnifying glass in their mind. Maybe you’re handling it correctly being reactionary to each call. My opinion is you are correct on a lower end rental. If you’re charging more than 2k a month then I dont. Maybe 3k in cali im not sure on markets there.

    1Reply
  • Anna Sagatelova
    Property Manager · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2019 · 446 posts · 566 votes
    7y

    @Will Dixon we do get the same kinds of requests here in Ohio, I don't think it is a California thing exclusively. However you are right that California is different in terms of landlord tenant laws. I still believe half of the landlord's problems would be resolved if he hired a PM, because most of his frustration is with the nonstop requests that go to him directly. A PM has consistent standards for when to say yes and when to say no. And a tenant not willing to work with a PM (any PM in general, not necessarily one specific PM that maybe has a poor reputation) usually is doing something they shouldn't be...

    1Reply
  • Frank Werner
    Lender · cold spring, NY · Member since 2017 · 11 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    Sorry your experience is bad but it may be a learning experience. In all honesty its a clash between you who knew there were issues and someone who might have unreal expectations or just may be a perfectionist? I have run into problem tenants before and there are those that have a  legitimate complaint and those that have a motive. You need to document every issue you resolved. Tis may be their method of not paying the last few months. Request a sit-down with the tenant at you office. Get an understanding and start looking for a replacement. People like this don't change.

    Either way you and his tenant are a bad combination. Find someone new.

    Hank 

    1Reply
  • Ayo O.
    Rental Property Investor · HOUSTON, TX - Texas · Member since 2017 · 93 posts · 19 votes
    7y

    You got to be careful here.I sense your tenants may be up to no good.6 months ago,I found myself in similar situation with a tenant that had a similar MO.Like in your case they complained about everything in the newly rehabbed home.But I quickly realized all they were trying to do is to justify no paying rent by claiming they are withholding rent for deferred  maintenance  that I failed to do.They lied  about the water heater was broke and got an estimate to replace from a dubious handyman.Water heater still works till date.Long story short,after the rent was late a second time,I stopped taking rent and evicted them.I later realized they have been doing this for a while to several landlords and apartment complexes.Always screen your potential tenants,mine wasn't properly screened.

    2Reply
  • Bob Prisco
    Specialist · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 666 votes
    7y

    It seems the property was not ready to be rented. If the  tenant is complaining about light bulbs tell them go buy them . Also You should have a check list when walking threw the house during move in. Have the tenant sign off as all is ok

    Good luck 

    1Reply
  • Bernie NeyerPro Member
    Investor · Chanute, KS · Member since 2016 · 160 posts · 60 votes
    7y

    I hesitate to add another post when there already have been so many, but just don't renew their lease. In short, get rid of them. There are people out there who just never grew up or are so narcissistic they simply can't be managed.  

    You may be able to encourage their leaving when they complain the next time by telling them, if they want to leave you'll let them out of their lease. Tell them to give you a months notice, leave it clean and you'll return their deposit. I had a troubled tenant, and after a couple of times hearing me tell them this, they straightened up.

    1Reply
  • Account Closed
    Financial Advisor · CA · Member since 2012 · 128 posts · 76 votes
    7y

    I am in California.  I had a crap CA. tenant.  I gave him 60 day notice the landlord will be moving into the property.  I did.  This was in 2016.  Don't talk to anybody about why you moved in.  Just do it.  If you only have a short time left before the lease, you're lucky.  Last I looked in CA.  if the landlord wants to move in, they can with 60 day notice on a month to month. 

    2Reply
  • Martin NealPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 293 posts · 383 votes
    7y

    @Wesam S. Sorry about the headache but it sounds like you are handling it right. I’m not sure of the landlord laws in your state but I would let them know that they are free to leave if the property is not up to their standards and cancel the lease as a mutual agreement. If you don’t want to go that route, then it might not be a bad idea to visit the property and see the condition for yourself. Is the property really in that bad of a condition?? Also, let it be known what’s an acceptable repair request and what is not.

    1Reply
  • Justin R.
    Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @David Avetisyan:

    California is a different beast, especially if the property is located in a rent control neighborhood. Tenants are protected by all sorts of laws and getting rid of them isn’t easy. 

    My suggestion: Next time they complain, let them know you are willing to let them out of their lease. 

    It is my impressions that the tenants are mistaking your kindness for weakness and it’s time you start channeling your frustrating correctly. Put your foot down and take control of your property. Don’t let them bully you into doing things. 

    To your success! 

    This.  Respond:

    "Dr Mr and Mrs Tenant,

    I wanted to acknowledge your recent request to repair the X.  As you know, there have been various minor issues with the home over the past several months.  The attempts to repair and improve the property have not been fully successful.  I have decided to undergo a more comprehensive renovation of the property so as to determine the root cause of any issues and ensure any underlying issues are resolved.  It won't be possible for any tenant to live in the home during this work.  For that reason, I will hold off on this work until our current lease ends.  I realize this means you'll need to find new housing and take on the inconvenience involved in that - to make the overall process easier for you, I am comfortable ending our lease at any point on or before October X, 2019 when our current lease expires.  Hopefully this gives you the flexibility to make your next move with confidence.  My only condition is that you provide a 10 day notice when you're ready to move instead of the 30 day notice agreed to in our lease.

    <say something nice>

    Thank You,

    <Your Name>

    ----

    Go in there, deal with whatever you do or don't need to do.  Put it back on the market.  Move on.  The opportunity cost of dealing with nitpicky tenants is larger than any lost rent you'll have for the month.

    3Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 73 posts · 56 votes
    7y

    As always, I thank all of you for the incredible input you've given me. I've read through every response and internalized many of the principles that you all have spoken about. 

    Just to clarify a few things:

    The property is in Bakersfield, I live in L.A., so there is no rent control to worry about in this case. The tenants do pay rent on time (sometimes they even pay early) and they do take care of the property (last I checked, I need to stop by again). I don't believe any of the repairs that were/are needed are due to the tenants breaking things, my repairmen would have told me if they had thought foul play was the reason the repairs were needed. 

    I had a discussion with them yesterday and told them that based off their never-ending stream of request for repairs (some with are trivial), that clearly they are unhappy with the home, with the individuals making the repairs, and the quality of the repair work being done and that they are welcome to opt out of the lease at any time. They then assured me that they love the home, the neighbors, and neighborhood, and that they didn't mean to come across as being so bothersome. We talked about a few more things so I'll wait and see if the conversation changes anything. 

    At this point the entire house is virtually new: entire sprinkler system is new, the electrical system has been completely gone over, the A/C and heater is serviced, from the remodeling by the previous owner all the cabinetry throughout the house is new, stone flooring, paint inside and out, never had any issues with plumbing, roofing, etc. 

    2Reply
  • Ahmed Sublaban
    Real Estate Agent · Lodi, CA · Member since 2017 · 36 posts · 16 votes
    7y

    Hey Wesam, I appreciate you writing about your frustration regarding the troubling tenants. California is definitely a tenant friendly state, and there are many rules in place. 

    These resources were kindly provided by @WesBlackwell.

    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/overview-l...

    http://www.hcd.ca.gov/manufactured-mobile-home/mob...

    https://www.american-apartment-owners-association.org/landlord-tenant-laws/california/

    Here are some resources for you.


    If you are in a popular location, consider doing vacation homes. It is a little more hands on regarding the communication and booking requests, but I find it much easier, and simple. Guests are in and out, the return is usually 1 - 2 times the amount, you are able to fix any issues after check out, and block the calendar off when you need to. Basically you have absolute control of your property. The downside is the time investment needed, constant attention to guests (Usually a greeting, and a checkout message is needed, but sometimes small issues occue such as being locked out, supplies running out, light bulbs etc).

    I wish you luck and be sure to follow the great advice the BPers have offered. Even if some comments are more aggresive, take a step back to understand their perspective (Which I see you doing already).

    Great work and keep it up! Keep us updated. I will be following.

    1Reply
  • Heather Schmidtknecht
    Rental Property Investor · Winona, MN · Member since 2018 · 87 posts · 90 votes
    7y

    @Wesam S. — sounds like one thing that might be helpful is to set up some boundaries. Perhaps they could make a list and you could set up a weekly/monthly time to connect to discuss the items in the list. This would eliminate you taking calls 24/7, and would also give you a chance to prioritize what you need to tackle and/or can afford to tackle financially. If you are just *done* with these tenants, you could always offer a financial incentive for them to leave ASAP.

    1Reply
  • Mario Am
    Specialist · Nashville, TN · Member since 2019 · 187 posts · 83 votes
    7y

    @Wesam S.

    Sounds like a typical A neighborhood house is it?

    Never buy a A neighborhood house, I HATE THEM! Trust me you will get the most needy & annoying tenants.

    Focus on B C

    1Reply
  • Brendan M.
    Rental Property Investor · Beverly Hills, CA · Member since 2017 · 28 posts · 20 votes
    7y

    @Account Closed 

    The first mistake was giving any tenant your phone number (easy fix = don’t answer). 

     Give tenants your handy mans number for emergencies only.


    All communication (including non emergency maintenance requests) should be through email. This gives you the opportunity to ignore all b.s. requests easily, and train your tenants to not get answered when they make such requests (they will catch on quick).

     I also recommend  never telling any tenant that you are the owner (future forward). I always say I work with the owners (not untrue). 

    Lastly, remember that Regular upkeep is the nature of the beast with rental properties.

     Once your handy man identifies a request as a legitimate repair, handle it like a professional investor (with a smile). In my experience most repairs made will be one less thing to break/go wrong/give you an issue in the future (which is actually a good thing).

    Personally, I try to take care of all deferred maintenance prior to placing a tenant (though not always possible). 

    The last thing I will point out (perhaps the most important) is; 

    As professional real estate investors ALL of this stuff is in our job description (and is why we get the big bucks)!

    In the words of Buddha 

    You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.

    Hopefully this helps.

    2Reply
  • Rob Massopust
    Real Estate Broker · Santa Ana CA [South Coast Metro] · Member since 2016 · 459 posts · 202 votes
    7y

    Ah ok its not in LA and its not rent control [sfr not under RC in LA anyways but tenants still have the upper hand in most cases.] If you are running up there to fix little things thats a deal breaker for sure. Its a problem -Lets make some lemonade!

    Bakersfield a different story. Here is what I would do depending on what your long term goals are.

    If they like the house and the area make your life simpler. Stop being the landlord and become the bank. So many landlords are afraid to talk to the tenants. Just make them an offer they cant refuse. Most tenants are so unaware that they can buy a home. 

    Bakersfield market is undervalued, but will be declining 1st for sure.

    Look at selling it to them as a lease option or even a seller carry back etc. You create an AITD, add some equity and give them a payment similar to rent [minus the repairs, taxes etc]

    They pay for the repairs and have a vested interest to take care of the property. Maybe after a few years they can be in a position to buy. Or now FHA loans are dirt cheap and even zero down loans are available. Sell them the home, especially if you have owned it more than a year.

    Keep us posted

    1Reply
  • Michael Noto
    Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Presumably you are 9 months in to a year long lease? If so, just let it ride out at this point and tell them you will not be renewing. It is frustrating, but if they just move out at the end of their lease term I would consider that a win.

    1Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    I am glad that you had a talk with them.  Hopefully what you told them stuck and they stop calling so often.

    1Reply
  • Cheryl Williams
    Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 4 votes
    7y

    @Jim K. Agreed.

    0Reply
  • Sanjeev Advani
    Investor · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2015 · 483 posts · 234 votes
    7y

    @Account Closed seems like you've got yourself a little predicament.  In property management, I would say that there is definitely always that one Tenant that no matter what you do is not happy.  That being said, it is definitely important to keep the parts of the property that need to be working, up and working.  

    How did you screen these Tenants?  Are you looking to get them out? 

    Is there a reason that you're still managing the property versus giving it over to a management company?  

    There are definitely ways that you can deal with Tenants like this, however, it can be a very touchy situation because a lot of them will lie if they sense that you're trying to call their bluff which can in turn become a bigger situation. 

    Feel free to PM me if you would like to chat further as well, I would be happy to help you out however we can. 

    2Reply
  • Jeff Hudson
    Investor · Van Nuys, CA · Member since 2014 · 6 posts · 2 votes
    7y

    Sounds like a perfect example of why a property management company should be used. We use them on all our properties and let them deal with it. Those petty calls are not worth it! And, if it is a necessary repair, they have the team to take care of it quickly and efficiently (hopefully!).

    0Reply
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