I have a property that has 3/4 units heat turned on. Unfortunately, a tenant left and didn’t pay his electric bill. The soonest the electric company can come out and turn on heat to the unit is 8 days from today.
The property is in upstate New York and it is going to be below freezing on and off for the whole week.
With 3/4 of the building heated, do you think there is reason to worry that the pipes may freeze before then? Would space heaters temporarily help?
You turn off the main water supply at the meter. You turn off the water heater. You then open up both hot and cold valves on every spigot, starting from the one located highest in the property, ending with the one located lowest. You pour a cup of vehicle antifreeze into every bathroom drain, two cups into every kitchen drain, four cups into the top of every toilet and flush each toilet one last time. Two cups in every floor drain if the property has them. If the property is hot-water heated, you open up the radiator valves on every radiator and drain the system from the compression tank in the basement and THEN add your antifreeze to the drain you used.
If you have a property manager in the Northeast and he doesn't know how to winterize a property like this, he's a pretty piss-poor property manager.
You would also probably be fine if you left the cold water on a basement faucet steadily running, the slowest continuous stream you coule adjust the faucet to produce just abive dripping. The reason this works is that it protects the most vulnerable point in the system, the line from the local water supply network to the meter.
Now you can say you got the same advice from Pittsburgh. And I grew up in upstate New York, so we've come full circle.
@Account Closed are there occupied units below this one? How low will the temps go? Are the pipes in insulated walls or floors? Space heaters will help.
I've been here. Electric space heaters are your answer; if you have any concerns at all that the pipes may freeze...I promise you will sleep at night until this is resolved. I would not think twice about it. Avoid a catastrophe! space heaters are cost effective insurance. Good luck.
Can you isolate the water to just that unit? If you can turn off and drain the water that is your best bet. If not, leave the faucets dripping. Water coming from underground water mains will be warmer than water left stagnate inside of pipes exposed to freezing air.
@Bjorn Ahlblad the unit is above and next to a heated unit...the lowest temperature I see in the forecast for the next 8 days is 17 degrees (this is likely overnight). Some quick research online suggests that pipes are pretty resilient up to 20 degrees. I’m hoping that the unit will be ok being that it is mostly heated in the meantime.
@Marcello Di Gerlando thank you for the suggestion! I will have to research those heaters. I have a property manager handling the property and I’ll see what they think. I’m not sure if they would consider space heaters or any sort a fire hazard, especially left unattended.
@Todd Rasmussen that’s a great idea, I will check with our property manager and see if they can turn off the water. Do you think it takes long to drain fully from the pipes after turning the water off?
Shut off the water to that unit and drain the lines. I don't recommend running any space heaters, electric heaters, or propane heaters in an unoccupied unit. Very risky.
@Bjorn Ahlblad the unit is above and next to a heated unit...the lowest temperature I see in the forecast for the next 8 days is 17 degrees (this is likely overnight). Some quick research online suggests that pipes are pretty resilient up to 20 degrees. I’m hoping that the unit will be ok being that it is mostly heated in the meantime.
@Marcello Di Gerlando thank you for the suggestion! I will have to research those heaters. I have a property manager handling the property and I’ll see what they think. I’m not sure if they would consider space heaters or any sort a fire hazard, especially left unattended.
@Todd Rasmussen that’s a great idea, I will check with our property manager and see if they can turn off the water. Do you think it takes long to drain fully from the pipes after turning the water off?
No, your pipes probably are only 1/2" in most cases. I would expect the entire unit to only have a few gallons in it. Open faucets to let the air in to speed the process.
8 days?! Seriously?! We are typically next day/2 days max. Shut the water main off to that unit if you can, drain whatever water you can, hope for the best. I think you’ll be ok with heated units attached.
@Account Closed - Do not run propane or any gas inside the house. Considering the unit is between two heated apartments I think it should be okay. Also, you can slightly crack open the water faucets in the sinks, tubs so the water its flowing. Flowing/moving water won't freeze as fast as still water.
Thank you all! There was a bad storm up that way so a lot of people are without power bumping us now 7 days out with the electric company.
Unfortunately I’m not local to the property, and we just turned the property over to a new property management company last week. I will check with them on if we are able to turn the water off to that unit (they are separately metered) or at the very least let the faucets drip.
On one hand I think being that the unit is next to and above heated ones it will be OK, especially if the danger zone for pipes is 20 degrees and the temperatures look like they’ll be in the 30s for the week with only a few dips. But on the other hand I’m losing sleep over this and turning off the water entirely would be good for my sanity!
If the property has a separate water meter, then turning off the water to that unit can be done at the meter. That doesn't solve the freezing issue though unless the pipes are drained. to do that, open a fixture at the lowest point and faucets above need to be opened to allow the water to drain. Make sure to turn off the water heater.
One thing that can help is to open cabinet doors on any fixtures that are on outside walls. This allows the relatively warmer air access to them.
Dripping the faucets as mentioned is also effective. Just a slow dribble is all that is required and it will prevent freezing.
You turn off the main water supply at the meter. You turn off the water heater. You then open up both hot and cold valves on every spigot, starting from the one located highest in the property, ending with the one located lowest. You pour a cup of vehicle antifreeze into every bathroom drain, two cups into every kitchen drain, four cups into the top of every toilet and flush each toilet one last time. Two cups in every floor drain if the property has them. If the property is hot-water heated, you open up the radiator valves on every radiator and drain the system from the compression tank in the basement and THEN add your antifreeze to the drain you used.
If you have a property manager in the Northeast and he doesn't know how to winterize a property like this, he's a pretty piss-poor property manager.
You would also probably be fine if you left the cold water on a basement faucet steadily running, the slowest continuous stream you coule adjust the faucet to produce just abive dripping. The reason this works is that it protects the most vulnerable point in the system, the line from the local water supply network to the meter.
Now you can say you got the same advice from Pittsburgh. And I grew up in upstate New York, so we've come full circle.
You turn off the main water supply at the meter. You turn off the water heater. You then open up both hot and cold valves on every spigot, starting from the one located highest in the property, ending with the one located lowest. You pour a cup of vehicle antifreeze into every bathroom drain, two cups into every kitchen drain, four cups into the top of every toilet and flush each toilet one last time. Two cups in every floor drain if the property has them. If the property is hot-water heated, you open up the radiator valves on every radiator and drain the system from the compression tank in the basement and THEN add your antifreeze to the drain you used.
@Bjorn Ahlblad the unit is above and next to a heated unit...the lowest temperature I see in the forecast for the next 8 days is 17 degrees (this is likely overnight). Some quick research online suggests that pipes are pretty resilient up to 20 degrees. I’m hoping that the unit will be ok being that it is mostly heated in the meantime.
@Marcello Di Gerlando thank you for the suggestion! I will have to research those heaters. I have a property manager handling the property and I’ll see what they think. I’m not sure if they would consider space heaters or any sort a fire hazard, especially left unattended.
@Todd Rasmussen that’s a great idea, I will check with our property manager and see if they can turn off the water. Do you think it takes long to drain fully from the pipes after turning the water off?
Do not use propane heaters inside the property. There is too much risk of fire hazard and carbon monoxide poisoning.
As others suggested, drain the pipes. It should be easy to do assuming each unit has their own shut offs. It only takes a couple minutes. The big concern is pipes on exterior walls. It helps to open up the cabinet under sinks, so that heat can get closer to the pipes. If you are unable to drain, make sure to run water through daily to keep warmer water in the pipes.
You have a couple things working to your advantage. Although it is cold at night, it is warmer during the day. It is also earlier in the season, so the cold water supply is warmer than it will be in late winter. Being that the unit has a heated unit below it, my guess is the temperature will never even get below freezing, just due to heat raising from below.
If you have prolonged low temperature or outside pipes, they do sell electric wrap pipe heaters. This would be excessive in your situation. I am just mentioning it as an option for others who may have long term vacancy or mobile homes with pipes outside.
Just be super careful with using any type of heaters especially if you're not going to be in-unit. That, to me, almost sounds riskier than just letting it go the week without any intervention (always at risk of a fire when you leave a heater unattended). Others have asked valid questions re. whether or not that piping is insulated. It can get really cold here in Chicago during the winter so fighting the urge to do things like use space heaters and ____ can be a challenge. But. Generally, with our family home, we will let the faucets drip and this becomes a quick solution. Otherwise, you can turn the water off and then let that water drain or you can go the antifreeze route Jim suggested above.
@Account Closed I dealt with freezing pipes last winter at at property in Berwyn, IL during the "polar vortex". The fact that this unit is above a heated unit pretty much means you will be fine unless you leave windows open, etc. 17 is cold, but the temperature inside the place is highly unlikely to drop that much. My pipes were in an unheated basement in a building that used to have a boiler but the building had been converted to forced air. I didn't have an issue until we went sub zero for a few days.
One more thing you can do is ask your PM to monitor the place daily in some way for you. Maybe put a thermometer in the unit and take a picture so you have peace of mind?
Thank you all so much! I think without intervention we would most likely be ok, but our property manager is going over today to turn the water off to that unit and drain the pipes just to be safe. I would hate to have some sort of disaster happen that could have been easily preventable. I really appreciate all of the feedback, I learned a lot from this thread!
@Kristin Caras turn the faucets on to allow a slow drip in all sinks. Moving water will not freeze. If it’s only a few days, a slight increase in water bill will be worth it.
I use electric space heaters that have temp setting so they turn off at 60*. You could also ask another tenant to check on them.