Landlord's Rights Being Violated
Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
Landlord's Rights Being Violated
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Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6yOriginally posted by @Jack Seiden:
Threads like this make me angry. The reason we all get to make on r/e is because we take on some risk (Some more than other’s) and sometimes like now that risk goes bad. We also make money because some people literally don’t make enough money to save anything much less for down payment. The same reason you get to make money being a landlord is the same reason you might not get paid for a few months, now hopefully you’ve saved money for a downturn but this idea that you should get to make money with no risk and no downside ( especially the people with thier c/d class that was on paper 10% roi.) is so entitled.
Landlords do take on risk and they take steps to mitigate those risks. Having someone from the outside determine you're going to take a loss is what the complaint is here. While there are prohibitions from evicting someone, there is no mandate to forgive rent. We'll work with our tenants to the extent needed as far as deferring rent and forgiving late fees but we WILL get all of the rent eventually or they'll be leaving the property. We provide a product in exchange for compensation. If there's no compensation, we won't be providing that product to them. If some landlords want to subsidize their tenant's financial choices, I'm perfectly fine with that, just not us.
12 Replies
- Member since 2019 · 1 post · 1 vote6y
Hey Judy are rights are being constantly violated.The government wants us to keep tenants during this pandemic at our costs without just payment,even though we have overhead costs water,property taxes,mortage,insurance and etc.Here In NY they suspended any eviction proceeding for 90 days.I had one tenant exactly 1 day left on his warrant,the law passed so know I had to wait 90 days on top of the 60 days that I spent waiting on the eviction.Im just worried that will suspend rent payments,which groups are asking.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes6y
You cant be foreclosed on either, so the bill puts your rights higher than the banks rights.
District Invest Group545 Reviews - 6yBjorn AhlbladPro MemberInvestor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
@Judy Parker you are right and even though I do not have any mortgages on my properties I'm still going to have to play by those rules whether I like it or not. No one will listen if I try and say "but I don't have any loans". 😳
All the best!
- Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes6y
Threads like this make me angry. The reason we all get to make on r/e is because we take on some risk (Some more than other’s) and sometimes like now that risk goes bad. We also make money because some people literally don’t make enough money to save anything much less for down payment. The same reason you get to make money being a landlord is the same reason you might not get paid for a few months, now hopefully you’ve saved money for a downturn but this idea that you should get to make money with no risk and no downside ( especially the people with thier c/d class that was on paper 10% roi.) is so entitled.
- Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes6y
Originally posted by @Jack Seiden:
Threads like this make me angry. The reason we all get to make on r/e is because we take on some risk (Some more than other’s) and sometimes like now that risk goes bad. We also make money because some people literally don’t make enough money to save anything much less for down payment. The same reason you get to make money being a landlord is the same reason you might not get paid for a few months, now hopefully you’ve saved money for a downturn but this idea that you should get to make money with no risk and no downside ( especially the people with thier c/d class that was on paper 10% roi.) is so entitled.
Landlords do take on risk and they take steps to mitigate those risks. Having someone from the outside determine you're going to take a loss is what the complaint is here. While there are prohibitions from evicting someone, there is no mandate to forgive rent. We'll work with our tenants to the extent needed as far as deferring rent and forgiving late fees but we WILL get all of the rent eventually or they'll be leaving the property. We provide a product in exchange for compensation. If there's no compensation, we won't be providing that product to them. If some landlords want to subsidize their tenant's financial choices, I'm perfectly fine with that, just not us.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes6y
Originally posted by @John Teachout:
Originally posted by @Jack Seiden:
Threads like this make me angry. The reason we all get to make on r/e is because we take on some risk (Some more than other’s) and sometimes like now that risk goes bad. We also make money because some people literally don’t make enough money to save anything much less for down payment. The same reason you get to make money being a landlord is the same reason you might not get paid for a few months, now hopefully you’ve saved money for a downturn but this idea that you should get to make money with no risk and no downside ( especially the people with thier c/d class that was on paper 10% roi.) is so entitled.
Landlords do take on risk and they take steps to mitigate those risks. Having someone from the outside determine you're going to take a loss is what the complaint is here. While there are prohibitions from evicting someone, there is no mandate to forgive rent. We'll work with our tenants to the extent needed as far as deferring rent and forgiving late fees but we WILL get all of the rent eventually or they'll be leaving the property. We provide a product in exchange for compensation. If there's no compensation, we won't be providing that product to them. If some landlords want to subsidize their tenant's financial choices, I'm perfectly fine with that, just not us.
But part of your business is by definition both dealing with government regulation and people “who make poor financial decisions”. I for instance have to work on my flips with dcra who is probably the worst regulatory agency in the country (they stole 12k from me but that’s another story.) But that’s what I signed up for their regulations probably cost me 10k a house minimum but I know that going in and I factor it in. A lot of people on this board seem like they never factored in either an economic crisis where no one would be able to pay their rent or the fact that during an economic crisis government tends to get more heavy handed.
- 6yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
@Jack Seiden
Grocery stores don’t have to provide food for people who can’t or won’t pay; transportation services don’t have to provide rides for people laid off who can’t afford rides; doctors don’t have to provide medical services for uninsured who can’t pay; but property owners have to provide housing, and sometimes utilities for tenants who don’t pay. Yes, housing providers have been, are and will continue to be singled out.
Further, when an investor purchases a property in a municipality and during his ownership a form of rent control is enacted, or if an ordinance is passed limiting property usage; or if exorbitant fees are charged or substantial time is taken to obtain permits, then one or more of the rights that go with the property have been confiscated and as a result the value of his property has been taken and given to someone else. NYC has been doing this for 80 years, when the temporary WWII rent control measure was extended for 75 + additional years and a rent stabilization measure was enacted for newer buildings to retroactively include buildings build before the measure was enacted. That’s why 60% of the residential rental buildings in the Bronx were forfeited by their owners in the 1980s, the legal amount of rent resulted in loses even if the property had no mortgage. The city then sold the apartments to existing tenants as part of co ops for $500 each. It was nothing more than a redistribution of wealth targeting landlords and rewarding tenants.
- Real Estate Agent · Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 847 posts · 656 votes6y
Originally posted by @Don Konipol:
@Jack Seiden
Grocery stores don’t have to provide food for people who can’t or won’t pay; transportation services don’t have to provide rides for people laid off who can’t afford rides; doctors don’t have to provide medical services for uninsured who can’t pay; but property owners have to provide housing, and sometimes utilities for tenants who don’t pay. Yes, housing providers have been, are and will continue to be singled out.
Further, when an investor purchases a property in a municipality and during his ownership a form of rent control is enacted, or if an ordinance is passed limiting property usage; or if exorbitant fees are charged or substantial time is taken to obtain permits, then one or more of the rights that go with the property have been confiscated and as a result the value of his property has been taken and given to someone else. NYC has been doing this for 80 years, when the temporary WWII rent control measure was extended for 75 + additional years and a rent stabilization measure was enacted for newer buildings to retroactively include buildings build before the measure was enacted. That’s why 60% of the residential rental buildings in the Bronx were forfeited by their owners in the 1980s, the legal amount of rent resulted in loses even if the property had no mortgage. The city then sold the apartments to existing tenants as part of co ops for $500 each. It was nothing more than a redistribution of wealth targeting landlords and rewarding tenants.
The first part of this is just factually untrue plenty of business including mortgage company’s (addressed in this very bill) utilities hospital’s and commercial landlord’s and many more business are forgoing money for the next few months. Also no one has instituted rent control or taken your property, all they have done is asked you stop eviction’s in the middle of pandemic where you wouldn’t be able to find a new tenant who could pay anyway. If you as a landlord didn’t save for this day that’s on you not your paycheck to paycheck tenants who again are the reason the rental business works. If everyone could afford to save for a down payment you wouldn’t have a business so I don’t want to hear how fiscally irresponsible your tenants are. Bottom line if you chose to rent properties for a living especially c/d class one’s this is part of the deal (Yes dealing with government regulations you don’t like is also part of the deal.)and you should be prepared for that.
- Sherman Oaks, CA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
Real estate investing is considered high risk. I see it marketed or promoted all the time as low risk though. Not trying to pour on negative thinking and of course let's hope everybody does great instead. Many renters might have more money than they ever had very soon. Good luck!
@Don Konipol And Don that was interesting about the Bronx. I never knew what the H happened there but remember seeing the place in utter shambles.
- Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 6 votes6y
Here is what I gather, after reviewing the actual text of the bill
- Multifamily landlords who have government backed loans, can get forbearance on their loans, but during that timeframe have to agree to not do any evictions (page 572)
- Any landlord who participates in the section 8 housing program, OR has a federally backed multifamily or single family loan, may not evict anyone for 120 days from the date the act begins (page 574) - so it is not perpetual; this seems to conflict with what's above re: the multifamily properties
- All other evictions (say you own a house free & clear, or have a portfolio loan through a local bank) can still occur, albeit any hangups from state/local laws; in north Texas where I am located I doubt they will have many holdups very long. As of 03/27/20 the TX Supreme court said no evictions until 04/19/20 and Dallas county specifically said no evictions until 05/18/20 - Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes6y
From what I understand, the government is only applying this to federally back loans and Section 8. The federally backed loans have have forbearance options. Section 8 you should keep getting paid by the government, so it wouldn't be eviction for non-payment. At the end of the day, these are both government backed programs, so they are saying if you participate in our programs, you play by our rules.
I get that many landlords are scared of losing wealth, but also keep in mind your tenants are scared too. The financial pain will ripple through to all of us. Landlords don't get special rights.
The reality is that most tenants who can pay, will pay. As far as the ones having problems, I would just encourage you to have an open discussion instead of threatening eviction. The landlords who relied on "Notice to vacate" as a rent collection method, versus tenant communication, will need to adjust their methods.
There are options for people to pay rent:
1. Stimulus checks of up to $1200 per adult and $300 per child paid in April.
2. Unemployment, extended in some cases to cover 100% of lost pay. Self employed qualify.
3. Local rent assistance programs.
I don't think "landlords rights" are going to trend as a topic that gains nationwide sympathy. Even if we all agree on BP that landlords are getting shafted, it will be near impossible to gain sympathy. I watched restaurant owners crying in front of the city council as they voted to shut down their livelihood. People have it worse than we do! It is very sad all around. This is the time to step up and do our part to help as landlords. Find ways to rework your finances to carry you through.
Most importantly, don't react to a potential situation. Even though you may not be able to evict people, it is very likely you will not need to evict people. Even though you are worried that people will not pay rent, it is very likely people will pay rent. Most worry and fear is unjustified. There is an old saying, FEAR is False Evidence Appearing Real. Most of what we worry about never comes to pass.
- Real Estate Investor · Williamson County, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 961 votes6y
@Judy Parker The law is considered to be in the public’s best interest...think of it like eminent domain. Except you have the right to file for eviction and demand back rent once it is safe to displace a bunch of unemployed people. You likely won’t get the back rent, I know. But this is a “black swan” event that just happens to hit landlords worse than grocery stores but not near as hard as beauty shops, restaurants, retail and Airbnb. Count your blessings. Had the black swan arrived in the form of a massive wildfire that burned half the country, then you’d have an even better reason to weep and it would seem fairer.
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