Scammed by identity of new tenant

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Scammed by identity of new tenant

John Teachout
Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes

This is a new one to us. We just rented a new to us house. The person filled out the application and I ran a full background check on them. Credit and employment history came back positive. I called the listed previous landlord, etc. So right after they moved in there were some mechanical issues with the unit (Air conditioner and the water heater quit heating) I was there working on the property and the tenant's group drove off to visit someone and shortly thereafter the police showed up. They asked for "Jane Doe" and I said, she doesn't live here, that's her daughter. The officer said this was the second time they've been at the property and the person by that name said she had just moved in. Anyway, we started putting a few clues together and best I can tell, the daughter used her mother's credentials to qualify for the property. I'm not really sure how to proceed from here. She's fully moved in. I'm thinking we have a few different options. 1. Tell her to get a truck and immediately vacate the house. 2. Have HER fill out an application, run it and then make a decision. 3. Have whoever we thought she was co-sign for the property and let her stay. (that would be after she completed an application). I'm really upset about this situation and the fact that we've been scammed by this person. We looked back to see what we could have done differently and there are a few minor things but we basically followed our usually vetting process. We believe the mother was cooperating in the fraud.

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Account Closed
Specialist · OverTheRainbow · Member since 2020 · 607 posts · 909 votes
6y
Originally posted by @John Teachout:

This is a new one to us. We just rented a new to us house. The person filled out the application and I ran a full background check on them. Credit and employment history came back positive. I called the listed previous landlord, etc. So right after they moved in there were some mechanical issues with the unit (Air conditioner and the water heater quit heating) I was there working on the property and the tenant's group drove off to visit someone and shortly thereafter the police showed up. They asked for "Jane Doe" and I said, she doesn't live here, that's her daughter. The officer said this was the second time they've been at the property and the person by that name said she had just moved in. Anyway, we started putting a few clues together and best I can tell, the daughter used her mother's credentials to qualify for the property. I'm not really sure how to proceed from here. She's fully moved in. I'm thinking we have a few different options. 1. Tell her to get a truck and immediately vacate the house. 2. Have HER fill out an application, run it and then make a decision. 3. Have whoever we thought she was co-sign for the property and let her stay. (that would be after she completed an application). I'm really upset about this situation and the fact that we've been scammed by this person. We looked back to see what we could have done differently and there are a few minor things but we basically followed our usually vetting process. We believe the mother was cooperating in the fraud.

Identity theft is a felony. If she'd commit a felony, what's the question? She will do ANYTHING and you are headed for big trouble.

AND the police were looking for her . . . ?




 

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  • Kyle J.
    Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @John Teachout  That's a tough one.  Any chance she lied to the police about her name and you actually got her correct name?  Or are you pretty sure you're the one who got lied to?  (People definitely lie to the police about their identity, especially if they think they have a warrant out for them or something. So that's something to keep in mind.)

    If you still think you're the one that got lied to, I'm curious if you verify and obtain a copy of photo ID during the application process?  I could see where someone could perhaps be able to pull this off with a sibling's identity, especially if they looked alike.  However, I would think there would be a great enough age gap between most parents and children that the daughter shouldn't be able to pass herself off as the mother without arousing suspicion.  

    In any event, if it were me, I would definitely confront her on what I had learned from the police.  If after speaking to her I felt it was confirmed that she had used her mom's identity, I would try to convince her to move out.  I just wouldn't want her as a tenant any more since I wouldn't trust her, plus she's obviously hiding something (and probably didn't qualify anyway).  And on top of all that, she just moved in and the police have already been there TWICE.

    I'd tell her she can have her full security deposit back, avoid an eviction (which I'd tell her that I will proceed with if she doesn't move out voluntarily), and we can each just go our separate ways with a clean slate.  

    Anyway, probably a number of different ways you can handle this.  That's just one suggestion.  Good luck and hope it works out for you.

    4Reply
  • Account Closed
    Specialist · OverTheRainbow · Member since 2020 · 607 posts · 909 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Teachout:

    This is a new one to us. We just rented a new to us house. The person filled out the application and I ran a full background check on them. Credit and employment history came back positive. I called the listed previous landlord, etc. So right after they moved in there were some mechanical issues with the unit (Air conditioner and the water heater quit heating) I was there working on the property and the tenant's group drove off to visit someone and shortly thereafter the police showed up. They asked for "Jane Doe" and I said, she doesn't live here, that's her daughter. The officer said this was the second time they've been at the property and the person by that name said she had just moved in. Anyway, we started putting a few clues together and best I can tell, the daughter used her mother's credentials to qualify for the property. I'm not really sure how to proceed from here. She's fully moved in. I'm thinking we have a few different options. 1. Tell her to get a truck and immediately vacate the house. 2. Have HER fill out an application, run it and then make a decision. 3. Have whoever we thought she was co-sign for the property and let her stay. (that would be after she completed an application). I'm really upset about this situation and the fact that we've been scammed by this person. We looked back to see what we could have done differently and there are a few minor things but we basically followed our usually vetting process. We believe the mother was cooperating in the fraud.

    Identity theft is a felony. If she'd commit a felony, what's the question? She will do ANYTHING and you are headed for big trouble.

    AND the police were looking for her . . . ?




     

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  • John Teachout
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    She had called the police because someone hit struck her. I called both the electric company and the water company (city) and the person we screened is the one that turned on the utilities. (showed ID at both places) So we continue to be confused. We're pretty sure at this point that it's a mother/daughter working in collusion. Maybe the mom is planning on paying the rent and utilities for her daughter but after discussing it with my wife we don't see a good ending to the situation no matter how we go. Our thinking as of now is to make her move out. One way or the other...

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  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    I'd find out her identity and have her move out if she lied.

    1Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    Well, strangers on Bigger Pockets aren't the best qualified to give you good advice about legal matters...but you know that already, John.

    If she's not the person identified in the lease, she's a trespasser. So I would talk to a lawyer.

    I'd listen to the lawyer's suggestions. It's not a crime to lie to a landlord. But if the rental contract was signed under false pretenses, it's not valid, and I would hope you'd therefore have other options involving treating this woman as a trespasser.

    3Reply
  • John Teachout
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    So today we confronted our tenant and she was quite upset that we doubted her identity. She insisted that she is indeed the person who applied for and was screened for the property. She showed us additional pieces of paperwork with her name on it and so forth. So we're now not sure she is someone else but not completely convinced she is "her" either. At this point, we don't have much choice but to let things ride and see what happens...

    0Reply
  • John Teachout
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I will say that we're going to slightly adjust our screening process to preclude a situation like this happening again. We already have a tenant placement process that is more stringent than many landlords as we're fully aware that it's probably the single most important aspect of a profitable rental business. Always something else to be aware of.

    1Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y

    Photo ID? Driver's license and US Passport? Pretty much any American adult on the up-and-up can produce one or both of those identification forms with minimal effort.

    3Reply
  • John Teachout
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    She produced a driver's license but the pic on it is so poor we really couldn't tell if it was her.

    0Reply
  • Isacc Lightbourn
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 46 posts · 29 votes
    6y

    @John

    I was wondering how you plan on improving your screening process!

    Best,

    0Reply
  • Mary M.
    Rental Property Investor · Portland OR · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Teachout:

    She produced a driver's license but the pic on it is so poor we really couldn't tell if it was her.

     If you are talking in person You can always ask to see it and while in your hand ask birthdate and address....not fool proof but would catch casual “ID borrowing”

    1Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Teachout:

    She produced a driver's license but the pic on it is so poor we really couldn't tell if it was her.

    John, I would lean very heavily on the side of it not being her, then. The government's spent real money since 9/11 and the Patriot Act making sure the operators who take the photos in each state have the equipment to take recognizable ID photos and the training to use it correctly. I'd keep on aggressively questioning the identification, even if she insists you're stupid, crazy, and paranoid for doing so, even if others start to do so as well. Make her prove to you beyond the shadow of any doubt that she is who she says she is. While you may ultimately be wrong and be forced to apologize, you really lose very little or if your tenant, especially one in this situation, actually does think you as her landlord are crazy-suspicious and should be medicated for paranoia.

    This technique is very much how mid-level drug dealers keep their street-level people honest in the absence of trust in their basic business relationship, and it works WONDERFULLY with trashy people skating on the edge of legality.

    6Reply
  • Zachary Ray
    Investor · Durham · Member since 2017 · 589 posts · 251 votes
    6y

    Speak with a real estate attorney for the next steps, as well as the police. Get them out of there. 

    0Reply
  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @John Teachout first of all, it could be a police mistake. The police showed up at my door last year looking for John "Doe". I said, "he doesn't live here". They insisted it was correct and this was the right address. I said no a second time and they left. I went to my computer and did a Google search on John Doe and found out he lives one street over. The police had the wrong street. Thank God they didn't kick the door down and shoot me. The point is police make mistakes and it happens ALL the time. 

    If she is holding a valid state ID and it looks like her in the photo, what other proof do you need? If you are saying it is her mothers ID, that would mean she is probably 20 years younger. Can't you tell her age within 20 years?

    Have you considered visiting the address on her drivers license and seeing who lives there? You can also look at previous addresses on her credit report. If she took Mom's ID, then Mom likely lives at one of those addresses.

    Another possible explanation is that the daughter called the police from her moms house. If someone hit her, that would make sense that she would be at moms. You mentioned you confronted her, but you never said how she explained the police claiming she was someone different?

    2Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Teachout:

    This is a new one to us. We just rented a new to us house. The person filled out the application and I ran a full background check on them. Credit and employment history came back positive. I called the listed previous landlord, etc. So right after they moved in there were some mechanical issues with the unit (Air conditioner and the water heater quit heating) I was there working on the property and the tenant's group drove off to visit someone and shortly thereafter the police showed up. They asked for "Jane Doe" and I said, she doesn't live here, that's her daughter. The officer said this was the second time they've been at the property and the person by that name said she had just moved in. Anyway, we started putting a few clues together and best I can tell, the daughter used her mother's credentials to qualify for the property. I'm not really sure how to proceed from here. She's fully moved in. I'm thinking we have a few different options. 1. Tell her to get a truck and immediately vacate the house. 2. Have HER fill out an application, run it and then make a decision. 3. Have whoever we thought she was co-sign for the property and let her stay. (that would be after she completed an application). I'm really upset about this situation and the fact that we've been scammed by this person. We looked back to see what we could have done differently and there are a few minor things but we basically followed our usually vetting process. We believe the mother was cooperating in the fraud.

    its usually the opposite the baby mommy or daddy ruins the kids credit before they understand whats happening. 

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    2Reply
  • Julio Garcia
    Rental Property Investor · Modesto/Stockton/Merced, CA · Member since 2020 · 456 posts · 214 votes
    6y

    Idenitfy fraud breaks the lease. Begin the eviction process if she does not leave on her own. 

    1Reply
  • Greg M.
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @John Teachout:

    We looked back to see what we could have done differently and there are a few minor things but we basically followed our usually vetting process. 

    Not to kick you when you're down, but I'd rethink my vetting process.

    If the pic on the government issued ID is so poor that you can't make a positive ID, then the ID is fake. 

    You met the person, so you have an idea of her age. Does it appear to match the age of the person whose credit you ran? 

    You called the water and electric companies. Is this such a small town that they actually remembered this person who came in to turn on the utilities and showed ID (the ID that you can't recognize the person from the pic)? I've turned on/off utilities in many places and never once did I actually have to go someplace to do it. I did it over the phone. 

    You're going to get screwed somehow. You can demand real government ID from her and let her know that if she refuses you will see her in eviction court where she will have to produce it. You also know where she works. You can stop by there and ask for her and see who comes out or ask a co-worker if they know her and it should be easy to tell. Hey, you know Gena Smith? She's about 25 years old with blond hair? When the co-worker replies that Gena is about 50 with black hair, you know you got screwed!

    0Reply
  • Cheryl Moore
    New to Real Estate · Dayton, OH · Member since 2020 · 122 posts · 39 votes
    6y

    @John Teachout Would you share your tenant screening process please?

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Member since 2019 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @John Teachout

    This will get worse before it gets better. If that ID pic was that poor, zero shot it’s legit. Unless it was thrown out of a moving car into a moving river then left in the sun for a year to fade nicely like a good pair of jeans...

    I would’ve said “no problem Susie Q, I’ll hold this place for up to 48hr while you head over to 40th and Smith street and grab a new ID. Unfortunately we had a past instance where someone tried to sign a lease under someone else’s name and this is our method to prevent that from happening again. I cannot sign a lease with you until I’ve seen at least two pieces of government issued ID.”

    0Reply
  • John Teachout
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    At this point we're not sure she is who she is. And no, I can't tell how old she is based on meeting her in person. The driver's license she produced also appeared to be real. The Georgia license would be pretty hard to duplicate and I believe it's legit. She claims the person the police were seeking was her sister. (she previously said it was her daughter). She pulled a wad of papers out that had her name on it and so forth. So at this point, we're going to let things ride and see if she pays rent. We did drive to the previous address in another town and knocked on the door. No one answered. I tried calling her employer to see if she's taken time off (because she's been around in the daytime when she supposedly works)

    If we knew she wasn't who she said she is, we'd put her out but at this point unless we really got invasive we don't really have a way to prove it one way or the other.

    The utility companies accepted her ID to turn on the water and electric. You have to do that in person in this municipality. We'll update the post if anything develops.

    0Reply
  • John Teachout
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Cheryl Moore:

    @John Teachout Would you share your tenant screening process please?

    We first provide a prospective tenant with a profile that lists our criteria for that property. ie, credit score, minimum income, non-smoker, no cats, dogs with fees/rent, etc.

    If they self screen themselves beyond that, then they fill out an application which must include a picture of their driver's license. We use the info on the app and do some research on the person such as looking online to see what we can find out from searches or social media pages. If everything seems ok we submit their info to the online screening company which does the full background check. (criminal, sex offender, address history, credit score, evictions, etc) Based on that data we usually make a decision but will often call previous landlords, do job verification, etc. We had called the previous landlord (she had moved some months ago and was staying with family) and got a favorable response. The landlord/manager was not the person that owned the property on the county website but that's not unusual. So essentially we did the usual process that we do for all our houses. If the police hadn't stopped by and asked for a different person's name, we likely would not have had the level of suspicion that we do. They said the tenant had told them she was just moving in and her name was xxxx which is different from what was listed and per the tenant was her sister that had stopped by. So at this point, we wait.

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  • Mike Lee
    Investor · Tampa, FL · Member since 2017 · 123 posts · 109 votes
    6y

    Good luck, but this sounds like it will be a cautionary tale for newbie landlords.

    0Reply
  • Cheryl Moore
    New to Real Estate · Dayton, OH · Member since 2020 · 122 posts · 39 votes
    6y

    Thank you John !!!!

    0Reply
  • Cheryl Moore
    New to Real Estate · Dayton, OH · Member since 2020 · 122 posts · 39 votes
    6y

    What online screening company do you use ?

    0Reply
  • John Teachout
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Cheryl Moore:

    What online screening company do you use ?

    myrental

    0Reply
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