Cleaning deduction when housemate moves out?

Question

Greetings all;

Just making sure I haven't missed something.  I'm in CA and I occasionally have a housemate (renting a bedroom w/ full house privileges in my home; single person only).  When they move out, and do not clean 'common' areas such as the living room/kitchen and bathroom - all places they have used, can I deduct a cleaning fee?  These areas are always cleaned before a new housemate moves in, and I generally clean every couple of weeks while they live here ('cuz I live here to and . . . ) , but I have NEVER had a tenant lift a finger to help clean while they are sharing my house or when they move out.  Now - I'm not their maid - so it seems reasonable that they should, at the very least, clean the common areas when they move out.  I don't ask them to clean "my" stuff:  like dusting furniture in the living room as it's all my stuff (bookshelves, stereo cabinet, dog sleeping area), but I do ask them to clean "common" areas like sweep/mop floors in kit/living room, kitchen countertops, refrig., stove, and the full bathroom - which we share.

When they invariably don't clean when they move out - I clean and deduct the cost from their deposit - usually around $75-100 (3-4 hours @ $25/hour).  Is there a problem with this method?

My last housemate turned out to be a complete BULLY - and is threatening to take me to small claims court if I withhold 1 dime of her deposit.  We did a checklist at move-out (no checklist at move-in) and she had cleaned her bedroom fine - but nothing else.  She claims that she is not responsible for cleaning "common" areas.  That seems to work in an apartment complex and laundry rooms, but this is a shared house and she lived here and used the "common" areas - why shouldn't she clean?

thanks in advance

kelly

btw:  I am soooo fed up with people I could SCREAM!  What ever happened to common courtesy and responsibility?! (I sound like my mother!!  ;-)))))   )

Brian Mathews · Answer

So you expect them to pet sit for you to save $75/day for multiple days and are wanting them to pay a one time fee of $75 when they move out because they didn't clean to your satisfaction? I think maybe it's time to grow up.

Rob B. · Answer

Hi Kelly, it is all about setting those expectations early on; usually as a good 1-off question during the screening process, you should inquire about them owning a vacuum cleaner or other cleaning supplies. This is a good way to gain further insight into what type of roommate this is before they even move in. Having said all of this, making the housemate responsible for a move-out cleanup expense for a common area does sound like a reach. Plus all of the other added requirements? Feels like a bit much. I'd specify in writing moving forward (as others have mentioned above) what they are or aren't responsible for, but again, set the expectations early on and you won't have to deal with the disagreements which can lead to a testy housemate situation. @Kelly G.

Jon K. · Answer

Or at least to decide if you want "friend roommates" who pet sit for each other, clean for each other in return, don't mind late rent, etc.

Or if you want tenants who clean while and after they move, pay on time, not pet sit for you, and have a strictly landlord/tenant relationship.

You can't have both.

Scott W. · Answer

why get a roommate unless they're some person you know or a family member? Having strangers live with you is kinda scary.  Is it really worth the $?

Buy a cheaper place if you're that stressed out.

Adam K. · Answer

I absolutely would not charge them for cleaning common areas. That seems like an over reach. On the other hand I would expect them to broom clean their private rooms (bedroom and bath if they have one). If they left their bathroom disgusting or their bedroom trashed then I think it would be reasonable. But common areas that you share with them? Absolutely not.

Jon K. · Answer

You need better tenants, but roommates always come with some sort of mess. They use the microwave, sink, etc. so those things will get dirty.

Choosing a time with the roommates to clean the house together every month at least gets everyone involved.

Individual cleaning schedules or taking turns cleaning usually ends up with one person dong a deep clean, another maybe wiping off a countertop, and another roommate "forgetting" or doing nothing.

You cleaned the house for your roommates, but you're making them babysit your pets? I can't imagine tenants wanting to watch your pets. Take the pets to the dog boarder while you're away.

Tenants shouldn't have to pet sit for you. They're tenants.

If you live with friends, pet sitting is different. But, asking a tenant to pet sit? I wouldn't.

For one, tenants could easily lose your pet.

Two, they're paying you rent... then pet sitting for you for free.

If they get tired of pet sitting, they could easily "lose" the dog, or claim the dog bit them and to sue you. I mean, really? Asking your paying tenants to pet sit for you?

Perhaps you should try to find one of your friends who wants to move in and would be willing to pet sit. Or, get a dog/cat gate and a fence, or litter box train the pets and hire someone to walk/feed the pets every day while you travel.

I seriously can't imagine you not being able to find SOMEONE to watch your pets for less than $75 a day. That's ridiculous. You could hire a babysitter for less. Ask a friend to do pet sit. Or, take them to the dog boarder. Or, use a pet "dog walking" service just to let the pet out a few times a day.... not dogsit.

Like I said, most tenants, even good ones, aren't going to clean the common areas in roommate situations before they move out. They're just not. They're busy moving, and other people still live there who would dirty it within days anyway.

Be glad all they did was leave a few dirty dishes and a dirty microwave. Tenants use the kitchen, thus there is mess. Everyone makes some sort of mess or spills juice/crumbs/cooking crap sometimes. You'll have to clean your own kitchen at some point whether or not they live there anyway.

I would be surprised if CA let you charge for your time. CA isn't known to be all that landlord friendly. Good luck. It might seem like "payback" that you could get on a b**chy tenant, but it might not be worth the time, lawyer costs, and so on. I mean, I have a large house and could hire a maid to clean the whole house for <$100.

I would consider the b**tchy roommate as a lessen learned. Be clear about your expectations up front.

Have a roommate agreement that they sign that talks about cleaning, smoking, overnight guests, and so forth. Personally, I include it the lease. A lease addendum might be better. I also make it clear (well, I try to) that I'm the landlord (not just roommate). I call myself the landlord in the lease and roommate agreement. I sign the lease on the "landlord blank lines" after they sign them. I refer to them as tenants in the lease. I set rules that I can live with and make them agree to it. Even so, roommates are annoying. Living with people is always annoying. You'll always end up with some roommates who clean more than others, some who cook noisily, some who.... whatever. So long as it's basic living annoyances, I can live with that stuff. I at least make sure they're not throwing wild parties or bringing people over all the time or smoking.

What I would do if I was you:

1) Get a dog walker. Don't expect free pet sitting from tenants.

They're your tenants who are paying you rent. Expecting them to dog sit for free for their landlord is weird. I wouldn't if I was them.

2) Hire a monthly maid. Require up-front that tenants split maid.

3) Talk to roommates when they move in. Set up schedule for doing dishes, taking out the trash, and light cleaning. Decide what happens if someone doesn't stick to that schedule.

4) Screen better roommates. Month to month lease. Don't let tenants bully from day 1. Screen them well, and select roommates with good references and a good personality.

5) Find a job that you work more than a few days every now and then? Self-employed doesn't sound like it's sufficient for your expenses right now. It might be time to either find a part-time steady income side job while you grow your own business, or choose local clients only, or work for someone else instead. You're stuck with roommates in your current work situation.

And, you're asking your boarders to watch your pets for free.

I wouldn't pet sit for my landlord for free.

Find a solution for the pets that doesn't make your tenants pet sit.

6) Expect roommates moving not to clean the common areas before they move. Not. Gonna. Happen. They'll clean their rooms, that's it. I don't think I've had any yet that cleaned my kitchen before they left.

7) An up-front non-refundable cleaning fee (in addiction to the refundable security deposit) might suit your needs. It also might inadvertently encourage some tenants to not clean on their own and expect that a maid will clean up after them after they move.

Kelly G. · Answer

Greetings Jon K. and Jon Holdman

thanks for your comments!  I'm not trying to charge the 'housemate' for not cleaning when they were here.  I just figure that since I've been cleaning, they should clean when they move out as the 'common areas' were clean when they moved in.  I'm not expecting sparkle and shine - just a reasonable effort - heck ANY effort would be appreciated.  But when they leave dirty dishes, dirty microwave (which I don't use), food on the counters etc etc etc . . .    Clearly I need to change my policies.  And try as I might to find a "good" housemate - I just seem to have rotten luck.  This one was tolerable until 2 days before she moved out - when she became the absolute B%^& from hell!

Charging for my time is not a problem in CA - that much I'm sure of.

Would love to not have a roommate, but I'm self employed and when I work, it's away from home for multiple days and the 'roommate' has the job of taking care of my pets when I'm gone.  Otherwise, I'd be out @ $75+/ day for a "pet sitter"!  YIKES!  Really cuts into my pay check.

anyway - thanks for your help - always appreciate feedback.

Kelly

kelly

Jon Holdman · Answer

Is this your time?  Or are you paying someone?  If this was a normal rental and you paid someone to clean because the tenant didn't leave it "broom clean" (what leases usually say), then charge them.   I've done that.

If the tenant did leave it broom clean, I will also usually hire cleaners.  Because the tenant met the lease terms, I don't charge them.  I hire cleaners at my own cost so its clean for the next tenant.

I NEVER charge a tenant for my time.  NEVER.  In some jurisdictions you can, in some you cannot.  I don't know about CA.

I think a roommate situation is more complex.  You're cleaning your house.  How is a judge going to view it if you explain that your house wasn't clean enough after your boarder moved out, so you cleaned it and charged them.  I doubt that would stand up.

Now, if they left their room a mess, and you paid someone to clean it, I think you have a good case.  If common areas weren't getting cleaned to your satisfaction when they were there, though, I think its to late to penalize them after they're gone.

Maybe you should sell and buy something smaller or rent yourself.  You seem to be causing yourself a lot of stress having to take in boarders like this.   Is changing your living situation to avoid the need for this an option?  I know I'd make a lot of other choices before having to have a random stranger live with me.

Jon K. · Answer

Them not cleaning during their time living there is something to talk about before they move in and while they're living there.

It's much easier to require a monthly cleaning fee from each roommate as a required add-on to their rent before they move in. I've had clean roommates, but most of them don't regularly clean as often as I do. Even if you set cleaning schedules, some roommates will miss their turn cleaning, or not clean as well as other roommates, etc. While it's annoying, it's kind of part of the game.

Charging them for your time cleaning might not hold. If you hire a cleaner and deduct from the deposit,... that might stick better if you want to try to withhold the deposit (and take it to court if need be).

I've had tons of roommates. Most, if not all, don't clean the kitchen before they leave. I take it as part of the deal with roommates. Multiple roommates plus I'm living here too... even if they cleaned it, it would be messier again in a few days.

Having roommates is different than having tenants.

If your tenant leaves a property dirty, you can prove it was their mess and that they didn't clean.

If a roommate does the same, it's harder to prove who cleaned, who made a mess, etc.

I would let it go. Next time, see if you are allowed in your city/state to charge a non-refundable cleaning fee (plus refundable security deposit) before they move in.

Just be glad they didn't damage the place. You would've had to clean the kitchen at some point even if it was just you living there. If they made a true destructive mess or damage, that's different.

Also keep in mind other roommate issues like zoning, taxes, insurance issues, sub-leases if you don't own the property, etc. that could affect you.

And, don't let roommates bully you from day 1. I like month to month leases and have a "like it or leave it attitude" up to a certain extent. Fulfill your end of the bargain in a polite, professional, but firm way. Pick your battles and stay firm on what matters to you (and is legally allowed). Personally I have a long roommate agreement that covers cleaning, overnight guests, parties, smoking, etc. It's been helpful. I also screen roommates very, very carefully. I don't accept anyone I don't like, who isn't pleasant, or who won't agree to my rules.

Kelly G. · Answer

Hi  Wayne Brooks

Thanks for your reply.  If I have a rental agreement - although it does not specify cleaning - why would cleaning a 'rental' be different for a 'housemate' than for an independent rental?  Obviously I'm confused here

kg

Cleaning deduction when housemate moves out?

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