Hello 

We have a new tenant on our first ever rental property and they’re are requesting adding a water softener citing hardness? Should we agree? Should we say no? I’m afraid if we agree or negotiate they may ask for more down the road? 
thank you 

@Nadia Hale I would say no. Unless the water is so hard it it outside the limits of the department of health (which it won't be). Just another maintenance headache for you.

Thank you. She said that it was causing hair loss and skin problems as well as tough on clothes. If we say no and they want to pay for it , should we agree then ?

This is an important lesson. Your lease agreement should include a disclaimer that basically says the renter was given an opportunity to inspect the rental prior to renting. No promises of improvement were made unless done so in writing, so renter is accepting the property in "as is" condition. I still fix things that are broken, but I do not make improvements after they've moved in.

Yes my lease does have that ‘as is’ clause . So we are covered that way . However what if they offer to pay? Is it worth my while then ? Thank you !

The house was rented without one.  If they offer to pay, you run into other problems as to who owns it.  Find out the cost to install AND maintain it, and then offer to do so, but for an increased rent to cover the costs.  Say it costs $1000 to buy and install, add $50 a month to the rent.

@Theresa Harris

A simple signed addendum can avoid the problem of “who owns it” at the end of the lease term.

Thanks for the great advice! So one more since ik sk new at this : do we offer upfront to increase rent abs manage or say no first? I feel like if we say no that may spoil our relationship from get go? Maybe find out and ask to increase rent by $75 a month  upfront ?

@Nadia Hale - I have one rental and it's in a city that has some of the hardest water in our state. Just my opinion, but also take a look at what hard water can do to your property. Hard water is horrible on appliances such as dishwashers, clothes washers, water line on refrigerators, etc. Not to mention that when you go to clean the place when you have a tenant turnover it will be a nightmare getting off all of the hard water deposits in toilets, showers, sinks, etc. The first thing I did in my rental was install a water softener to mitigate the risks, it was less than $500 for the softener and it took me half a day to install myself. Since it's your tenant requesting it, maybe see if they are willing to go in on the cost or, like others mentioned, increasing the rent a little. I look at it as an investment to help maintain my property, the only thing the tenant needs to do is fill it with salt every few months. Hope this helps shine a different light on your question.

Originally posted by @Nadia Hale :

Thanks for the great advice! So one more since ik sk new at this : do we offer upfront to increase rent abs manage or say no first? I feel like if we say no that may spoil our relationship from get go? Maybe find out and ask to increase rent by $75 a month  upfront ?

Is the water actually hard?  You'd be able to tell (eg mineral build up around the faucet).  Do the work to find out the costs including installation if it is something you can't do.  Then ask her to either split the costs (add an addendum to the lease saying it stays with the property) or rent will go up to offset some of the costs.  

You are running a business, so there will be times you need to say no to requests.  You are not there to be her friend.  Treat her with respect and be professional.

I agree with others that you first need to determine if the water is hard.  It's a simple test. you can take a vial of water to a water care company and they should be able to tell you immediately how many grains of hardness it has.  Soft is considered as 0-3 grains of hardness. As others have said, hard water can be extremely hard on water heaters, washers, and dishwashers.

You also need to determine if the house is plumbed for a softener.  If its a new home it likely is.  However, in an older home getting it plumbed for a softener can be a big deal.  Sometimes it makes sense to only soften the hot side.

I do know it’s prolly hard as water is hard in our area in general . Most people use softeners. However the plumbing is a good point . I have heard that these townhomes especially with finished basements are not plumbed for easy installation and one person told me he may have to open walls to find drain and water meter might be embedded in the walls. He said we may have to run plumbing lines . That sounds like a nightmare to me . I am afraid if I send someone in, tenants will assume I am interested in this and then if I decide it’s not worth it they will be even more upset.

If we do go down that route , I think I will send someone get an estimate , find out how hard the plumbing is and we will build in a rent increase by installing and choosing the product ourselves . Rent was based on as is and so they should accept the increased rent with capital expenditure or say no and we will move on . 

I've had tenant requests in the past that included things like fence.  I don't agree to pay for things unless I feel that the house could greatly benefit from it including keeping some high quality tenants happy.  If it's an unnecessary item, then I would either say no, we aren't offering that as part of the lease, or allow them to make that change at their expense by a qualified professional.  Of course, I would make sure I completely understand what is changing before allowing it as well, even making sure the contractor would call me prior to starting.  In the lease, any changes are then property of the owner and if it's an unapproved change then the renter must return the property to original condition.

@Dan Gustavson didnt think of it this way. I would have them pay for it and then keep it for future tenents. Raise rent for next tenents

@Nadia Hale not only do I not install water softeners, but I actually remove them if they are in the property when I purchase it. Most tenants will not like the expense and effort involved in filling them. They are prone to breaking and needing to be replaced, so it is an added expense I don't need as a landlord.

That being said, if the tenant has a health concern (real or perceived), you want to address it. What I would do in your situation is tell the tenant to rent a water softener. A company like Culligan will install it and charge a monthly fee, then remove it at the end of the lease. Renting is completely reasonable and is no different than any other add-on service. 

They rented the property without a water softener and water quality information is public data, so they had all the information ahead of time. 

@Dan Gustavson you mentioned toilet and refrigerator water supply, but both of those are cold water. Typically a water softener is only installed on hot water supply. You really don't want your drinking water or garden water to be on a softener. Usually a plumber just installs on the hot water or offers bypass water for drinking and outside water spigots. 

@Joe Splitrock - You are correct, not sure why I mentioned the water line for refrigerator/toilets.. you don't want the cold water line connected. Hot water line is what you want connected to softener. 

@joesplitrock

Thanks ! We will definitely look into renting  and they can pay the monthly bill as a pass through to us .

So we rent and they pay the bill I guess .

what kind of maintenance does Culligan do on a water softener ? Are softeners easily removable?

Thank you all so much for helping out this newbie ! 

Thoughts:

1. Do as @Joe Splitrock mentioned - lease one from a reputable company that will also service it, charge the fees to the tenant, and be sure to collect from the tenant a deposit that covers your softener obligation should they break the lease early. Typically you're going to lease the softener for 1-5 years depending on the company and will be on the hook for the remainder of the term or a termination fee if you quit the service. That risk should be on the tenant.

2. If you are on a septic system don't do it unless you have a suitable dry well to dump the regeneration water. There are studies that say it is OK to dump into the septic system but they're not very well vetted or tested in the field so don't take the chance.

3. If you have it installed only on the hot water side it will use less salt and regenerate less often, and put less salt into your waste stream (remember, all the salt that's used in the softener is in your water now, so if you have septic it's now in your septic). 

Thanks JD Martin! 
This is town water so atleast that is a relief . The deposit is a great idea and we will make sure they pay that. 
to clarify ? Should they rent it directly from the company? It will be installed on our property so should we rent it from Culligan and collect the fee as additional rent  from them automatically every month
thanks again ! 

Originally posted by @Nadia Hale :

Thanks JD Martin! 
This is town water so atleast that is a relief . The deposit is a great idea and we will make sure they pay that. 
to clarify ? Should they rent it directly from the company? It will be installed on our property so should we rent it from Culligan and collect the fee as additional rent  from them automatically every month
thanks again ! 

Yes, I would enter into the agreement since it's your property - most companies won't deal with renters without the owner signing off anyway - and just collect all of the funds you need from the tenant. I'm going to bet money that as soon as the tenant realizes they need to pay a deposit for the contract and pay the monthly fees, their hair magically regrows and their skin becomes smooth and silky like a baby :)

Originally posted by @JD Martin :

Originally posted by @Nadia Hale:

Thanks JD Martin! 
This is town water so atleast that is a relief . The deposit is a great idea and we will make sure they pay that. 
to clarify ? Should they rent it directly from the company? It will be installed on our property so should we rent it from Culligan and collect the fee as additional rent  from them automatically every month
thanks again ! 

Yes, I would enter into the agreement since it's your property - most companies won't deal with renters without the owner signing off anyway - and just collect all of the funds you need from the tenant. I'm going to bet money that as soon as the tenant realizes they need to pay a deposit for the contract and pay the monthly fees, their hair magically regrows and their skin becomes smooth and silky like a baby :)

 

Haha I totally agree and hope that’s the case! If it takes some work for plumbing , I think I will bill tenant as we certainly don’t want to open dry wall for this issue . 

Thank you!! 

@Nadia Hale I’m no doctor but never heard of hair loss due to hard water. I have a hunch your new tenant is just beginning their journey of demands and requests as a tenant. Learn to say no confidently as a LL but also offer alternatives.

With that said, one option that I have personally used here in NJ that surprisingly has worked is a product called Scale Blaster. You can find it at Home Depot. It is an electronic water conditioner that requires no plumbing work - it wraps coils around the main water line supply in the house and breaks up the minerals so they don’t stick and build up. I installed one a few years ago expecting it would be an “ as seen on TV” infomercial and honestly expected to do nothing. But surprisingly it has reduced mineral buildup/stains on my faucets and showerheads about 90-95%. 

You should test the hardness first to determine if the water truly is “hard” and worth addressing.



absolutely correct ! We are learning to say no pretty quickly . I am doing some research, looks like some people do have softeners in that community but most don’t so it can’t be THAT bad. 

I am getting the water tested soon and it is town water and probably will be a little hard. 

Thank you again everyone. I will keep posted as I am sure I will have questions as this goes further along !

@Nadia Hale I would inform the tenant that you need to follow the lease, which states that the property has been rented as is....etc.  It is probably tempting if they offer to pay for it but it will start a bad precedent going forward in the lease.  I would not make an exception.  

Hi everyone! So we did go ahead and test the water and it is hardness level almost 5. Is that a high level do hardness that should be addressed? 
thanks !