New tenants want unit tested for meth drugs

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New tenants want unit tested for meth drugs

Ben S.Pro Member
Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 25 votes

I just purchased a duplex about 3 months ago and recently had the lower tenant move out because I raised rent higher than she could afford.  That said the new people moved in and they are demanding that I test the property for meth because they say the previous tenant's boyfriend is in jail for meth dealing.  Also the back door has some burns on it that "could" be chemical burns.  Otherwise the property is in really good condition.  The upper unit was where the previous owner lived. I have a hard time believing that the lower tenant had a meth lab with the owner living above and him not knowing. 

Anyway, I need suggestions on how to handle this!  I have never had a tenant demand the house be tested for meth.

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Will GastonPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
5y

@Ben S. respond with the "Happy Clause."

"It sounds like you're unhappy here and I want you to be happy. Let me get together a lease termination so that you all can find a place that would suit you better."

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  • Will GastonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Ben S. respond with the "Happy Clause."

    "It sounds like you're unhappy here and I want you to be happy. Let me get together a lease termination so that you all can find a place that would suit you better."

    29Reply
  • Ben S.Pro Member
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 25 votes
    5y

    @Will Gaston I wish that was possible... I just started a 1-year lease with them and I can't just cancel it right away without possible legal ramifications.

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  • Will GastonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Columbia, SC · Member since 2010 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Ben S. there aren’t legal ramifications if you mutually agree to terminate the lease.

    Basically you’re telling the tenant this:

    I’m not testing the property for meth and if you don’t like it I’ll let you out of your lease. 

    You’re setting the tone that you’re in charge and if they don’t like the property then they can leave. But If they stay it’s going to be you who is running the show.

    20Reply
  • Greg M.
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Ben S.:

    Anyway, I need suggestions on how to handle this!  I have never had a tenant demand the house be tested for meth.

    Tenants don't demand, they ask. You need to stay in control of the relationship.

    In addition to the Happy Clause mentioned, the word "no" is a perfect response. You can also tell them that they can have non-destructive testing done at their expense. 

    Unless you have reason to believe that the unit was used as a meth lab, you have no obligation to have it tested. 

    5Reply
  • Jeffrey Donis
    Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 691 votes
    5y

    @Ben S. I agree with @Will Gaston. If you don't want to test it, then tell them they can leave and find another place and you can find a new tenant. 

    I don't think they can force you to get it tested for meth. 

    2Reply
  • Ben S.Pro Member
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 25 votes
    5y

    @Greg M. I would like to tell them they can pay for a test themselves, but then what happens if it comes back positive?  I fear that my investment would lose a lot of its value. 

    I've attempted to tell them no and they won't accept that answer I've also tried the happy clause and they love the place and don't want to move out.  So now I seem to be stuck with them testing it on their own and potentially having it blow up on me.

    1Reply
  • Greg M.
    Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Ben S.:

    @Greg M. I would like to tell them they can pay for a test themselves, but then what happens if it comes back positive?  I fear that my investment would lose a lot of its value. 

    I've attempted to tell them no and they won't accept that answer I've also tried the happy clause and they love the place and don't want to move out.  So now I seem to be stuck with them testing it on their own and potentially having it blow up on me.

    There is always that possibility that it comes back positive on any property. It's seems highly unlikely. Just because the tenant's boyfriend sold meth doesn't mean he made it at her place or even made it himself. I haven't frequented enough meth labs to know, but I assume that there would have been strong evidence of a meth lab on the property.

    Depending on your area, the tenants may be able to get a copy of the police report. It might say where the boyfriend got the drugs from or where he made them?

    You need to be more forceful with dealing with them. They don't get to say no to your answer. Look tenants, the answer is no. I will not test the unit for meth. Period. End of discussion. I understand that you're not happy with that answer, but that is my only answer and it is my final answer. If you like the unit so much, you're going to have to accept that answer. There is no third option. I consider this issue resolved. Please don't bring it up again as I don't have the time to continue to address settled issues. 

    7Reply
  • Patricia Steiner
    Real Estate Broker · Hyde Park Tampa, FL · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    5y

    Just say no - actually say more than that.  Tell them straight up that there is no basis for their request; houses that has been used as meth labs have specific characteristics that this one never has and cannot be rented until after thousands of dollars in testing ($5k to $50K) and a total gut of the interior is completed.  And, they must know meth labs are not housed in duplexes. Have they ever seen one?  Windows are completely blacked out, big time security measures are in place - including bad butt dogs and fencing - and that any neighbor is too great a risk. The chemical odors are so strong that no one can be close by.  Advise that the property has never been tagged by law or code enforcement as a drug production property and that their concerns are unfounded.  As for the tenant's boyfriend, even criminals leave their homes to go to work...

    Don't let them out of the lease. Don't engage the conversation again.  And, don't make eye contact with people this stupid.

    Hope this helps.

    14Reply
  • Ben S.Pro Member
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 25 votes
    5y

    @Patricia Steiner Thank you! That's what I needed!  I have done some research on it and found in many cases they actually have to have my consent to test for meth and without that, they can not test.  So I plan to take the hard-line with them just as you laid out. 

    @Greg M. Thank you also, I really appreciate this.  I had brought this up with my realtor that I use for rentals in a different area and she gave me the link for home testing and basically said I have to do it and don't have a choice so I'm very glad to hear from others it's actually not like that at all!

    2Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Ben S. I agree with @Will Gaston try the happy clause.  The only way you might have an obligation to test for Meth is if the Police found a meth lab on the premises. If the tenant's test and find meth you would remediate. Meth is a major hazard, more then lead or asbestos.  In a duplex that stuff would  smell so I don't think the other unit would have missed it.  It is likely a small risk if you tell them if they want to do testing on their own they can do so. 

    0Reply
  • Jonathan R McLaughlin
    Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    5y

    @Ben Spader yeah I’d make sure to get some state specific advice here. I think in some states tenants have the right to test and I know they can call in some kind of violation to various agencies that can call in a world of hurt.

    FWIW how do they know the old tenants boyfriend was dealing meth!?

    And a “meth lab” can just mean they were making some there on their cough medicine own—still probably counts though.

    If they were babes-In the-tenant-woods and asking this it seem kind of reasonable to ask “MAY” be chemical burns? Sheesh. Um…why were those still there when they moved in?

    1Reply
  • Jeremy Powers
    Member since 2021 · 15 posts · 5 votes
    5y

    @Greg M. Your assumption of there being "strong evidence" of a meth lab isn't always true. As someone who grew up with his mom cooking drugs in the bathroom (wow... Just typing that makes me amazed I turned out as well as I have), I believe I am qualified to speak on the matter. My mom had all the "equipment" in a box. If you got rid of the box you never would have been able to tell anything nefarious had taken place.

    5Reply
  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    5y

    You can always negotiate changes to an existing contract as long as all parties agree. Tell them if they feel the rental is unsafe, they should terminate and find something else. If they insist on staying, then that indicates they aren't actually concerned.

    If they insist on testing, make them pay for it. Tell them you'll reimburse them the cost of the test if it comes back positive. I would observe the testing process and that it's sealed before shipping out. You don't want them cheating the test and then using a false positive to sue you.

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  • Matt Ziegler
    Rental Property Investor · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2020 · 433 posts · 284 votes
    5y

    We bought a short sale a few years back and the windows in the basement were all blacked out. The realtor thought this indicated a meth house. We had it tested for $35 and it came back negative.
    Turns out the kids were major gamers And waned black out blinds to play the computer games! Lesson learned was getting a test it was cheap, feeling better knowing it was safe before we rented it out was better still.

    This happened prior to our closing on the deal, so slightly different situation. Point being getting a property tested for meth isn’t expensive. A positive test however would cause expensive remediation.

    1Reply
  • Barney Davis
    Rental Property Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2019 · 33 posts · 9 votes
    5y

    @Ben Spader tell them to go kick rocks. They sound like they will be a pain in the ***

    0Reply
  • Ryan GarrisonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Olympia, WA · Member since 2017 · 234 posts · 83 votes
    5y

    "If you are unhappy here, I will send over lease termination paperwork. Sound good?"

    2Reply
  • Jaquetta T Ragland
    Real Estate Agent · Winston Salem, NC · Member since 2014 · 486 posts · 303 votes
    5y

    @Ben Spader if the test comes back positive, what will they do? Move out, file a lawsuit...what’s the point of the test is what I’m trying to figure out?

    0Reply
  • Bruce WoodruffPro Member
    Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes
    5y

    Forget the main topic of this thread. Your takeaway has GOT to be this.....tenants do not demand anything. Ever.

    If you can't wrap your head around that then sell and go do something else. The risks are too high for you.

    And this is a no-brainer. The answer is "no, I will not test it, and no, you will not either." Put it in writing and make them sign it.

    2Reply
  • Ben S.Pro Member
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 25 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Jaquetta T Ragland:

    @Ben Spader if the test comes back positive, what will they do? Move out, file a lawsuit...what’s the point of the test is what I’m trying to figure out?

    So they say they would like to have a baby and want to be sure, but honestly, I can't trust that this is true based on other actions they have taken against the previous tenant when moving in.  They are threatening legal action in other issues because they feel they are treated unfairly which isn't true at all.

    0Reply
  • Ben S.Pro Member
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 25 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Bruce Woodruff:

    Forget the main topic of this thread. Your takeaway has GOT to be this.....tenants do not demand anything. Ever.

    If you can't wrap your head around that then sell and go do something else. The risks are too high for you.

    And this is a no-brainer. The answer is "no, I will not test it, and no, you will not either." Put it in writing and make them sign it.

    This is great advice, and I definitely plan to follow it!  I'm consulting with legal to ensure I'm not breaking any laws.  But I plan to get it in writing that I will not and they will not test for meth.

    1Reply
  • Luciano A.
    Developer · Houston TX · Member since 2018 · 423 posts · 400 votes
    5y

    @Ben S.

    I agree with others. You are the landlord and should have control in this situation. The amount of times I hear broke people talking about suing is laughable. If the tenant has a lawyer on speed dial then why are they renting. I'm just saying. 
    It sounds like you got new tenants that need to know you are not like their old landlord and that you will not be bullied. Put a letter together that states there is no reason for having property tested. However, if they want to pay out of their own pocket you can arrange for a third party company after they pay that company's fee so that you can again control the narrative and not have them use some shady company. 

    Send this certified so that they see you mean business. Just make copies and hold onto that certification receipt for your record.

    IF you give in then be prepared to get a laundry list of stuff in the months to come. They will feel you are easy to control and they will start asking for crazy stuff. Maybe a new fridge because the fridge they have doesn't look pretty. Maybe repaint their interior in their favorite color. I know these are extremes but those of us that have been in the business for some time all have our own stories to tell.

    Best of luck 

    1Reply
  • Ben S.Pro Member
    OP
    Member since 2020 · 48 posts · 25 votes
    5y

    @Luciano A. Man this is why I love BiggerPockets forum!  All of the great advice that I get from everyone!  This is incredibly helpful!  I use the TenantCloud app to manage my rentals and they have an option to send a notice to the tenants that would require their signature and let me know if they viewed it or not.  So I plan on sending the notice via that app. Makes it super quick and easy to do and definitely official so they know I mean business.

    4Reply
  • Aaron Gordy
    Real Estate Broker · Austin, TX · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Turn it over to a good property management company and let them deal with it. A happy tenant is a good tenant. A bad tenant can screw things up royally and/or make your day to day life harder than necessary especially if you have little experience with such matters. A good property management company knows how to deal with it properly. 

    1Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    5y

    @Ben S.  I am pretty sure you would be on shakey ground if you tell them not to test, they do, and they find meth.  Not sure what you win by telling them no they can't test except the appearance that you are hiding a meth contaminated house.  but that is just my read on it.

    2Reply
  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    5y

    People love options, just create options where you win!

    First, ask them if a test is done (notice not commiting to by whom) and comes back positive, what will they want?

    ---You could offer to let them out of the lease
    ---Refund the cost of the test
    ---Spend up to $x to address the issue

    You should explore the consequences/expectations before agreeing to anything else.

    Second, allow them to get a test done by an inspector you approve. 

    If it comes back positive see above. If negative, no issue for you!

    FYI: HIGHLY recommend having attorney prepare an agreement they sign BEFORE the test! You do NOT want a situation where a test is positive and they refuse to move and stop paying rent with the expectation you will spend thousands of dollars to fix the problem while they live for free or worse - stay in a hotel at your expense. 

    The agreement should state that based on a positive test either the lease is terminated OR you will spend up to $x in remediation and if that doesn't fix the issue then the lease is terminated. Either way you want them to agree beforehand AND sign that agreement before the test.

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