Replacing windows in a 120 years property

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Replacing windows in a 120 years property

Tal Shachar
Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes

Hey there,

Hope I can learn from all the experienced landlords here...

I just had my inspection completed, for an investment townhome I'm interested in Baltimore, MD.
The house is ~120 years old, and besides the expected wear and tear, it is in a good shape overall

However, most of the windows as "past their EOL" and also, when opened, they do not stay up.
The house inspector told me that this could be a liability issue, if something happens to a tenant/child, due to a window shuts down on them.

Two questions, if I may - 

  1. 1. Does anyone know how much does it cost to replace these old house windows? I think their size is not "Standard"
  2. 2. Should I really be concerned about this "liability" issue?

This is my first investment property, so I'm not sure what to do with this info...

Thanks a lot for any insight!

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Karl B.
Rental Property Investor · Erie, PA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y

In my local market I deal with a company who takes window measurements and has the vinyl windows custom made as well as the install and it includes capping. When I started working with them back in 2017 I was paying $265 a window installed (when I bought five or more windows) and now thanks to all this money printing it's around $380 per window installed. 

Look for a company that includes capping and doesn't nickel and dime you. I got a quote from Window World once and those clowns tried to charge me $90 extra per window for capping amongst other things. 

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  • Tal Shachar
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes
    4y

    Thank you @Bonnie Low, I heard about the too long lead time...

    I think I will try to find the closest "off the shelf" windows at HD/Lowes and fit them in.

    Thanks.

    1Reply
  • Richard B.
    Rental Property Investor · Nyc, NY · Member since 2016 · 62 posts · 26 votes
    4y

    @Tal Shachar. I’ve replaced in similar situation with custom fit windows and that’s worked out better than trying to use stock windows.

    2Reply
  • Philip Coiro
    Flipper/Rehabber · Member since 2018 · 87 posts · 67 votes
    4y

    @Tal Shachar

    Replacing old windows has a variety of challenges. You can special order replacement windows for your current openings, they will prob be around $250-400 each. Then hire out the install which will prob need to include some exterior window caping.

    Since you’re changing them you could also run into egress requirements, nothing off the shelf at Home Depot/Lowe’s meets these egress codes. If you do need to worry about egress you could change the style of the window from double hung to casements. From working on old house quite a bit I am going to guess the casements will be smaller than your current window heights in which case you’ll have a bit more expensive install as now they have to patch old siding / paint it etc…

    1Reply
  • Frank S.
    Specialist · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 870 posts · 345 votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Tal Shachar:

    Hey there,

    Hope I can learn from all the experienced landlords here...

    I just had my inspection completed, for an investment townhome I'm interested in Baltimore, MD.
    The house is ~120 years old, and besides the expected wear and tear, it is in a good shape overall

    However, most of the windows as "past their EOL" and also, when opened, they do not stay up.
    The house inspector told me that this could be a liability issue, if something happens to a tenant/child, due to a window shuts down on them.

    Two questions, if I may - 

    1. 1. Does anyone know how much does it cost to replace these old house windows? I think their size is not "Standard"
    2. 2. Should I really be concerned about this "liability" issue?

    This is my first investment property, so I'm not sure what to do with this info...

    Thanks a lot for any insight!

    Fix them. They are old growth wood, it is a shame to trash them.

    My house is from 1906, I did a top of the line restoration on some of the windows, but you don't have to go to the extremes on a rental.

    Read The Crafstman blog and watch a few videos.  They can be repaired, over and over. The hardest part may be the paint, but if no excessive paint was applied, it's easy. You can encapsulate the paint and isolate with metal winterizing copper.

    If they wont stay open, it means you can open them, great news! Replace the sash chord and you are set. Sash chords are $40 for 100 feet, 1 hour per window.

    If you dont pay for heat,  don't worry about the single pane glass. Add storm windows, if you care. Single panes are R0.6, double pane are only R2.0, it is not a huge difference. There is no payback on new windows. 

    Replacement windows for rentals, budget type, are garbage.

    Post a photo and I'll give you some insight.

    Good luck,

    4Reply
  • Gp G.
    Investor · Atlanta · Member since 2019 · 522 posts · 89 votes
    4y

    old properties more maintenance buffer needed based on my experience

    2Reply
  • Tal Shachar
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes
    4y

    Lots of good advise!

    Thanks @Frank S., @Philip Coiro, will look into the egress requirements and definitely try fixing the windows before giving up and replacing them

    0Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    4y

    @Tal Shachar if you will rent this unit I would encourage you before you fix them know your lead requirements and if old windows will pass them.   If they allow no painted friction surfaces you may need to have them professionally restored to pass. I think MD may be on the strict side. 

    1Reply
  • Raj BalakrishnanPro Member
    Investor · MD · Member since 2015 · 10 posts · 3 votes
    4y

    Baltimore has many companies that replace / repair windows.  We use an outfit called 

    Glass + Screen Hospital  (443) 559-9552

    1Reply
  • Judy Parker
    Rental Property Investor · Closter, NJ · Member since 2015 · 884 posts · 722 votes
    4y

    The major window companies (Marvin, Pella, etc.) can make custom-sized windows.

    Your new acquisition sounds wonderful. Can you post a photo for us to see?

    1Reply
  • Tal Shachar
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes
    4y

    Thanks for the tip, @Colleen F.,

    I'll look at MD lead requirements

    0Reply
  • Tal Shachar
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes
    4y

    Thanks for sharing @Raj Balakrishnan,

    Will try them

    0Reply
  • Tal Shachar
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes
    4y

    @Judy Parker,

    I'll check with Marvin and Pella... Thanks for sharing this.

    And will definitely post some photos when I get a chance (closing is 3 weeks away...)

    1Reply
  • Patrick M.
    Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Oh yeah baby... nothing like digging down into a +100 year old brick building.

    We replaced both "decade old replacement" windows that were put in as well as the old windows. It was fortuitous of us to have a great old world mason who could address the brick wear that was hidden behind the wood paneling which was behind the sheet rock.

    Framed out with pressure treated... That baby is good for another 100 easy. And it is sealed up tight with Anderson 400's- f' keeping the old stuff- I save a fortune on heat and the tenants LOVE it.

    2Reply
  • Patrick M.
    Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    Oofhaa.... Those replacement windows didn't address the nightmare underneath.

    Left from an earlier renovation (3 months before the Titanic went down):

    1Reply
  • Tal Shachar
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes
    4y

    This is awesome, @Patrick M.!

    1Reply
  • Patrick M.
    Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    @Tal Shachar - Nah- this is awesome ;)

    Good Luck!

    3Reply
  • Wale LawalBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · Houston | Dallas | Austin, TX · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    I would replace the window; no air or water leaks will provide efficiency in the home. I have provided a link with all window types so you can make the best decisions.

    As an agent, I look at big-ticket items to negotiate the best deal for my clients. It may be worth trying that first.

    https://www.energy.gov/energys...

    [email protected]832-776-9582Podcast Guest on Show #469
    NETWORTH BUILDERS5236 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    1Reply
  • Brandon Plombon
    Banker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2017 · 257 posts · 143 votes
    4y

    Windows from multiple contractors in Minnesota are 12+ weeks out. 

    0Reply
  • Tal Shachar
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes
    4y

    LOL @Patrick M.... I stood corrected.

    This IS awesome!

    1Reply
  • Tal Shachar
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes
    4y

    This is great, @Wale Lawal, thanks much for sharing!

    0Reply
  • Kendall Short
    Lender · Kansas City, KS · Member since 2017 · 68 posts · 112 votes
    4y

    Following this. Closing a 120 year old property tomorrow as well.

    0Reply
  • Tal Shachar
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Rockville, MD · Member since 2021 · 37 posts · 32 votes
    4y

    Best of luck, @Kendall Short!

    0Reply
  • Gp G.
    Investor · Atlanta · Member since 2019 · 522 posts · 89 votes
    4y

    I am bit challenged with my 1961 property with all work I have to do on pretty much everything like new septic, electric, plumbing, crawlspace waterproofing, french drains outside, hvac related issues  but it is in good location. Should I keep or sell it? But after reading this thread getting inspiration to keep it

    0Reply
  • Kendall Short
    Lender · Kansas City, KS · Member since 2017 · 68 posts · 112 votes
    4y

    Thank you @Tal Shachar. It's a Kansas City property in a super up-and-coming area. Can't wait to update and refi in months to come. 

    0Reply
  • Jim Spatzenfeld
    Investor · NorCal · Member since 2015 · 281 posts · 240 votes
    4y

    I always order low quality replacement windows in original size. Usually just like 50 bucks more than a similar size standard size window at ~$200. I would never go through the hassle to fix the siding, trim  and drywall around the windows to save 50 bucks unless it’s a timely emergency and can’t wait for a special order.

    I love the old wooden windows and they’re easy to repair, but their energy efficiency is real bad and they are unfortunately ALWAYS covered in lead based paint.

    1Reply
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