I fired dynamic pricing today

I fired dynamic pricing today

Collin HaysBusiness Member
Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

Yes, fired Pricelabs. And I feel relieved for it.

I studied the whole "dynamic pricing" phenomenon for months before deciding to proceed with Pricelabs.  I had a few phone calls with Pricelabs, and their basic premise was pretty convincing:  "We are going to help you book your rental for as much as we can, as often as we can."  Several months in, what they were really saying is "We are going to help you squeeze every dollar out of your guests when you have the opportunity."  I have some problems with that.

Soon after we began, I got a call from "Suzy", who has stayed at one of my cabins with her husband for the last 4 summers.  "Collin, why are your rates twice what they were last summer?"  Good question, Suzy.

Then an email:  "I think something's not right.  I am trying to book a cabin, and one night it's $179, and the next night it is $329."   Yes, something's not right.

Then another email:  We just booked a cabin for $359, and noticed that every other day of that month that we can find, it's $209."  Yes, that's a problem.

As this thing has gone on, I realize that "AI" cannot be taught business ethics.  It is only about numbers and data, and that's not a good thing. What would we think if, on New Year's Eve, Outback Steakhouse tripled their menu prices, just because they could get away with it that night?  What if, upon an imminent snowstorm, Home Depot began charging $200 for a snow shovel, just because they could?  If we hope to be in business over the long term, we have to establish "fair and reasonableness."  We cannot breach our guests' trust by playing games with them.  It is immoral, unethical, and will likely hurt our business long term.  

Over New Year's, my family stayed at the Hotel Del Coronado for 5 days, for around $600 per night. That is around $100 more than a January night.  (Fantastic place by the way!)  Could they have fetched double that on New Year's?  Probably.  Why didn't they?  Probably to protect their trust of their customers, and hope that we keep coming back, year after year.

So today, I went back to my old business model:  A fair price for my properties.  Four distinct rate seasons.  That's it.  I'll sleep better tonight. If I have a homeowner client that wants to play games, I'll gladly help transition them to another manager.

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Rental Property Investor · Victor, ID · Member since 2016 · 59 posts · 94 votes
1y

Capping the nightly rates to reasonable amounts with the pricing software allows us to balance both of these needs. 

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Mike GrudzienPro Member
    Lender · Eugene, OR · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    1y

    I sincerely and wholeheartedly agree.  Ethics.  Common sense.  Common respect.  Sense and sensibility. I respect and support you and your decision.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    1y

    I'm sure your occupancy will go up!

    During the peak season you have to make your money when the slow season is so much less.

    I do have events where the prices are expected to be high due to supply and demand.

    I do see some of the dynamic pricing days as being rediculous and your going to miss out on the early bookers looking for a fair price. Then the prices lower towards the date and you end up booking at a low price or worse just being vacant.

    I think manually pricing your STR'S is a much better approach.

    So many people are looking for the next cool software app to buy a subscription to. Most are not necessary.

  • Member since 2024 · 5 posts · 4 votes
    1y

    @Collin Hays I really appreciate this post and your perspective. I'm a new STR owner and still learning. It's difficult to find levelheaded conservative advice. We're trying to invest with a long term mindset with as little debt as possible. There's not a lot of good "crockpot" advice out there.

    For a newby, these smart pricing software systems seem like the only way to do it. After reading your post, it makes me want to try it on my own first. If for no other reason, it seems that I’d have a much better understanding of pricing our rental in general and a good baseline to make decisions in the future. 

    I also appreciate your questions from an ethical standpoint. Great perspective and I appreciate you sharing. 

  • Rental Property Investor · The Villages, FL · Member since 2017 · 341 posts · 398 votes
    1y

    Thanks for sharing, this gives me confidence that I do not need that. I had looked into Pricelabes a couple years ago and didn't think it worked well for my market, but sometimes think about retrying it because so many seem to rely on it.

  • Josh SedivyBusiness Member
    St. Louis, MO · Member since 2024 · 134 posts · 55 votes
    1y

    Thank you for sharing. We rely on Nightpricer. Unlike most dynamic pricing tools that follow traditional pricing strategies, Nightpricer employs an ADR-based approach, which adjusts pricing based on the actual daily rate trends. This method offers greater efficiency, ease of use, and reliability. By focusing on real-time data, Nightpricer allows us to fine-tune pricing strategies more effectively and maintain a competitive edge in the market.

  • Andrew SteffensBusiness Member
    Tampa, FL · Member since 2022 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    IMHO Pricing software is near useless without human supervision.  For someone managing 1-5 properties you may be able to get away with checking up with it weekly.  With 65 units, I have a revenue manager who is checking it daily.  It can be a useful too, but nowhere near set it and forget it.

  • Member since 2022 · 529 posts · 413 votes
    1y

    Great timing.  After years of not using it, for some of the reasons listed in this group and mainly because I didn't think it worked well in my market, I signed up for the 30 day trial that expires in 7 days.  I was on the fence on keeping it.  I did a ton of work to set it up and have had to manually adjust the base price almost daily because it was so out of wack.  Low season isn't low enough or high season isn't high enough.  I find that I am doing just as much work using Pricelabs than I was pricing it myself, so why pay more.  One of many examples, Easter Weekend, just those 3 days, I had to manually adjust my price down 20%.  They were trying to charge over $1000 per night (the rest of the week is in low to mid $400).  They did the same for the US Pickleball Championship weekend.  

    Now, I am an economics and finance major (I find it funny saying that since it's been 30 years) but economics are ingrained in me so I am a firm believer in supply and demand economics.  That said, I also don't believe in price gauging and believe in Karma and think I'm doing okay for that.

  • Interior Decorator · CA · Member since 2020 · 78 posts · 30 votes
    1y

    Thanks for sharing! I think it is easy to become overly reliable on these tools and just let it run. As investors we want to maximize revenue but to your point that still requires applying common sense and basic ethical principles. I think things should make sense so if I couldn’t reasonably explain something I wouldn’t do it. 

    Oh and Hotel Del is amazing!

  • Michael BaumPro Member
    Olympia, WA · Member since 2016 · 8k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    1y

    Great post @Collin Hays. This is one of the reasons why I don't use dynamic pricing. I have considered it but I keep things at a flat rate for the exact reasons you stated.

    I want people to get the exact price when they stay at our lake house.

    I have studied things and I feel I would only make maybe an extra grand a year and frankly I don't want to squeeze every last time out of people coming for vacation.

    Most of our guests are regular people. We aren't the cheapest place but we are affordable for the size and I want to keep it that way.

  • Rental Property Investor · Victor, ID · Member since 2016 · 59 posts · 94 votes
    1y

    Capping the nightly rates to reasonable amounts with the pricing software allows us to balance both of these needs. 

  • Garrett BrownPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2024 · 519 posts · 560 votes
    1y

    I agree with @Garrett Kroll. You can cap the rates it charges, and if you have repeat guests you want to satisfy, provide them with a discount code. 

    Just because your guest paid one price a year or two ago doesn't mean you haven't had higher expenses or more traction in bookings to add to demand.  Dynamic pricing can be a great tool when reviewed enough and in line with the market. 

  • Realtor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2023 · 111 posts · 87 votes
    1y

    Pricelabs has increased my occupancy and revenue significantly.  I manage it daily to update base pricing and see what the market is doing, but I wholeheartedly recommend if you want to maximize revenue and get to maximum capacity.

    Mindy

  • Member since 2022 · 529 posts · 413 votes
    1y

    As I'm down to the wire on making my decision to keep it or toss it, I've decided to keep it but for different reasons.  I find the interface easier to manually update rates across my portfolio, OwnerRez doesn't easily let me match rates across my properties on a spot basis (unless anyone here has other recommendations that uses OR).  And I like the reporting (how far in advance are people booking, etc.).  It makes it a little easier for me than going into AirBNB, VRBO etc. and taking a look at data.  I may change my mind after a couple of months but we will see how it goes.  I am still manually adjust my rates beyond what they recommend.

  • Atlanta · Member since 2022 · 720 posts · 648 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Patricia Andriolo-Bull:

    As I'm down to the wire on making my decision to keep it or toss it, I've decided to keep it but for different reasons.  I find the interface easier to manually update rates across my portfolio, OwnerRez doesn't easily let me match rates across my properties on a spot basis (unless anyone here has other recommendations that uses OR).  And I like the reporting (how far in advance are people booking, etc.).  It makes it a little easier for me than going into AirBNB, VRBO etc. and taking a look at data.  I may change my mind after a couple of months but we will see how it goes.  I am still manually adjust my rates beyond what they recommend.


     i do find other things easy to do. I dont have to do seasons, i can click on a week or a month and quickly change minimum required nights, and other similar things

  • Member since 2023 · 113 posts · 129 votes
    1y
    Quote from @Mindy Nicol:

    Pricelabs has increased my occupancy and revenue significantly.  I manage it daily to update base pricing and see what the market is doing, but I wholeheartedly recommend if you want to maximize revenue and get to maximum capacity.

    Mindy

     @Collin Hays I respect your position and for sure everyone should run their biz according to their own values.  But I gotta say I'm with @Mindy Nicol on this one. For me personally, our STR and our little inn provide more than half my family's income so I feel I have a fiduciary duty to my wife and kids to maximize that. The same way I'd have a fiduciary duty to shareholders if I was a revenue manager for a hotel chain or airline.

    Far from gouging, I most often use PriceLabs to automate discounting strategies.  For example, ski season weekdays that are stranded between two booked weekends are pretty difficult to sell.  So I have PriceLabs set to identify those weekdays and automatically apply a steep discount, beyond what it thinks the weekday price should be.  Then I get guests who are thrilled to book a big 7-BR house for say, $600/night while competing properties sit empty.  Hard not to see that as a win-win.

    Min stay automation is also a powerful feature that I think is untapped by many.  This year I chose to trust the recommendation for a 7-day min stay requirement on far-out bookings during summer peak.  And that's led to 60+% of our summer inventory booked with 7+ day stays, rather than the calendar being all chopped up with 2-5 day stays like last summer.  Any gaps that get created between bookings automatically have the min stay reduced to the gap length.  And any longer stretches of unbooked inventory will also have min stay automatically reduced as the dates approach.

    Just my two cents.  Or rather, my $100K -- which is a rough guess of revenue added by pricing / min stay automation across our two properties.

  • New to Real Estate · Grand Prairie, TX · Member since 2023 · 54 posts · 30 votes
    1y

    What a great discussion! 

    If you don't mind me asking, @Collin Hays and @John Underwood

    What methods do you use without dynamic pricing? Do you look up competitor rates? Do you have experience and know the cycles of your market so you know the best price? Just curious, since I'm currently having my STR designed and furnished and my next step was to sign up for dynamic pricing.

  • John UnderwoodPro Member
    Investor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Lauren Lockett:

    What a great discussion! 

    If you don't mind me asking, @Collin Hays and @John Underwood

    What methods do you use without dynamic pricing? Do you look up competitor rates? Do you have experience and know the cycles of your market so you know the best price? Just curious, since I'm currently having my STR designed and furnished and my next step was to sign up for dynamic pricing.

    One very powerful tool is the built in analytics and graphs that Vrbo has. It shows me the average price of booked vs unbooked properties from my completion that I can choose. I can see the percentage of booked properties for any given day. It will tell me projected occupancy for any day. I shows my what dates people are searching for this year and last year. This allows me to tune pricing after spotting trends.
  • Investor · FL · Member since 2016 · 332 posts · 388 votes
    1y

    I held off till last April to jump into pricelabs. The reason I held off was my returns were higher than 90% of my competition in the Smokys and I am a math nut.  Then on March 25, 2024 came and my 2/1 that has brought in as much as $137k a year had zero bookings for April 2024.  I took the time to set it up and that property ended April 2024 at 100% occupancy.  I was wanting to charge too much and didn't see the demand shift due to an early Easter last year.

    I am in pricelabs daily still adjusting.  Pricelabs aided in all my properties (except one I stayed in for a week last month) increase revenue last month (Jan 2025) as much as 27% over Jan 2024. Pricelabs is not a set it and forget it.  It takes daily fine tuning.

    What I do like about Pricelabs is it quickly shows me demand for certain days/weeks at a glance. This helped me yesterday when someone inquired about a stay in October.  I could quickly determine if I wanted to offer a discount or not.

    What I don't like is Pricelabs can swing pricing for certain nights by over $200 overnight. So when a potential guests looks at a property before going to bed and then they wake up and decide to book the rate is jacked way up and they message me asking what is going on.  

    Overall closing out 10 months with Pricelabs I think it is worth it, but I still spend about the same amount of time adjusting rates everyday (10 to 15 minutes for 9 properties).

  • Corby GoadeBusiness Member
    Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    1y

    Couldn't agree more. By my estimates, pricelabs cost me approx $25K last year in lost revenue for some of the same reasons you've listed in your post. Turns out artificial intelligence isn't that intelligent. 

  • Collin HaysBusiness Member
    OP
    Property Manager · Gatlinburg, TN · Member since 2020 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    1y
    Quote from @Lauren Lockett:

    What a great discussion! 

    If you don't mind me asking, @Collin Hays and @John Underwood

    What methods do you use without dynamic pricing? Do you look up competitor rates? Do you have experience and know the cycles of your market so you know the best price? Just curious, since I'm currently having my STR designed and furnished and my next step was to sign up for dynamic pricing.

    We do comparison shopping with similar properties several days per week. It doesn't take that long.  We do tend to know what appropriate rents are for the different times of year, although you can't hold to those permanently.  For example, the market in Pigeon Forge is overrun with large cabins. If you want to rent the place, it might be for a lot less than a year or two ago, simply because the number of folks looking for a large cabin hasn't kept up with the increasing supply. This is a natural part of the boom/bust cycle of vacation rentals.

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