Airbnb's Extenuating Circumstances cancellation!
Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes
Airbnb's Extenuating Circumstances cancellation!
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Rental Property Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2017 · 419 posts · 499 votes
7y@Heidi Kenefick I think you’re completely wrong.
Holiday inn has their policies.
I have mine and the guest reviews and agrees prior to booking.
Airbnb shouldn’t be able to supersede my legally binding contract because ‘they want to’.
My refund policy is clear as day and a guest has the option to book travel insurance for these situations. Should a traveler choose not to that should be on them. Not me. I’m running a business. Not a charity.
If you want to give away your revenue for ‘good customer service’ that’s your choice. Don’t take away my choice.
26 Replies
- Kettle Falls, WA · Member since 2017 · 77 posts · 40 votes7y
Some hosts require guests to have travel insurance.
- 7yJohn UnderwoodPro MemberInvestor · Greer, SC · Member since 2014 · 13k+ posts · 17k+ votes
So Airbnb is paying for their stay? If so then I wouldn't be concerned.
I don't ever hear of a complete refund happening for cancellation on day of checkin or day before even on VRBO. Anyone ever have this problem on Homeaway/ VRBO?
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes7y
Originally posted by @John Underwood:
So Airbnb is paying for their stay? If so then I wouldn't be concerned.
I don't ever hear of a complete refund happening for cancellation on day of checkin or day before even on VRBO. Anyone ever have this problem on Homeaway/ VRBO?
John they want to charge back on me.
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes7y
Originally posted by @Kathy Hansen:
Some hosts require guests to have travel insurance.
Airbnb does not support this. It means that if you refuse a guest for not having travel insurance, they will consider this as a cancellation by host leading to lower ranking and ultimately terminating your host account if twice in a year.
- Rental Property Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 92 posts · 80 votes7y
That’s the first time I’ve seen that help article - thank you for sharing that, @Kevin Lefeuvre. This sounds crazy to me, too. If Airbnb wants to cover the cost, fine. But it’s unreasonable to ask the host to eat it.
- 7yDon KonipolBusiness MemberInvestor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Airbnb policies will be dictated by what they believe is in their best interest. That may or may not coincide with the hosts best interests. That's why the professional hosts learn all the regs, and keep up with any changes, as one must consider that in all their decisions.
- Investor · The worst town to live in, KS · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y
@Kevin Lefeuvre Most any sort of system is going to be biased towards the party that is spending the money. It is not fair, but that is the way Airbnb designed their system. To be on the side of the party that is spending money.
Is this going to matter one year from now? No. Forget about it, make it a learning experience and try to figure out a way to make it not happen again.
I've had something similar happen. A guys superintendent calls me and wants to know if I had a place for one of his guys for a few weeks. I did. He moved in that night. He didn't show up for work the next morning. Me and the super check on him. He had overdosed and was doing a death gurgle. Police, Fire and EMT showed up and took him away.
I got no rent and had to clean up vomit. My cleaning lady refused to do the cleaning thing.
- Rental Property Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2017 · 419 posts · 499 votes7y
@Kevin Lefeuvre I’ve had this happen and upon speaking to a supervisor they let it slip that the guest hadn’t even submitted the paperwork yet and the claim was already processed. Apparently just from the guests word. She said the guests have 14 days to provide the paperwork or ‘it may’ be reversed. I called 15 days later and they quoted guest privacy and couldn’t comment any further, nor confirm if any paperwork was provided. Basically they dont care because it’s not their money they’re generously refunding.
This policy is utter crap but there’s little that can be done.
And no, this does not happen on VRBO.
- Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Seems like a win for Airbnb if all that happens is few angry posts from hosts and likely happy guest ...
With that said, I'd bake the cost in my pricing and or remove my listing feom Airbnb. Probably not the second part though because it's probably still profitable...and while venting feels good doubt it's realistic to grab enough traction to get Airbnb to notice
- Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2016 · 533 posts · 433 votes7y
Another reason to work towards listing independence @Kevin Lefeuvre, and push to get your ranking up on VRBO/HA. I believe we will continue to see more and more of these policies in the near future.
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes7y
Absolutely @Michael Greenberg . Did I tell you guys my pricing on airbnb is 10% above VRBO. That's how I moved from 40% VRBO in 2017 to 65% in 2018 with no impact on occupancy rate or revenu. Counting the days until I can cut airbnb.
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes7y
Originally posted by @Paul Sandhu:
@Kevin Lefeuvre Most any sort of system is going to be biased towards the party that is spending the money. It is not fair, but that is the way Airbnb designed their system. To be on the side of the party that is spending money.
Is this going to matter one year from now? No. Forget about it, make it a learning experience and try to figure out a way to make it not happen again.
I've had something similar happen. A guys superintendent calls me and wants to know if I had a place for one of his guys for a few weeks. I did. He moved in that night. He didn't show up for work the next morning. Me and the super check on him. He had overdosed and was doing a death gurgle. Police, Fire and EMT showed up and took him away.
I got no rent and had to clean up vomit. My cleaning lady refused to do the cleaning thing.
I think on the long run they are on the wrong side. Without good houses Airbnb would not exist. They know it and they are using their momentum to build houses and even compete with us homeowners. Also it's possible this shows in their numbers with a high turn over rate and unmotivated hosts which could be the reason for them to not have gone public yet despite their huge size and impatient VCs.
The practical rational is to follow your good advice: Let it go and one year from now you forget. But the doing-business-also-for-fun in me wants to take them to the small claims court and give them a lesson. I have escalated the issue , waiting to see how the supervisor reacts. In the past they have been able to give monetary compensation when their policy sucks. Will see.
As for your story, sorry that the cleaning lady refused to clean. She needed to remind you who has the last word I guess.
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes7y
Originally posted by @Matt K.:
Seems like a win for Airbnb if all that happens is few angry posts from hosts and likely happy guest ...
With that said, I'd bake the cost in my pricing and or remove my listing feom Airbnb. Probably not the second part though because it's probably still profitable...and while venting feels good doubt it's realistic to grab enough traction to get Airbnb to notice
They have not yet charged back, just shared their intention at this point. I may take the case to the court for the sake of justice. I (just like any other host) am in business relationship with airbnb with terms and conditions well written, etc. They are very possibly in breach of contract. I've asked them to show me where did I approve that the Extenuating Circumstances leads to the host refund and not just airbnb. Awiting their response. Don't feel good to just let them walk away. We'll see how they react.
And yes , by publishing, I hope other hosts fight them each time they bully.
- Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Kevin Lefeuvre:
Originally posted by @Matt K.:
Seems like a win for Airbnb if all that happens is few angry posts from hosts and likely happy guest ...
With that said, I'd bake the cost in my pricing and or remove my listing feom Airbnb. Probably not the second part though because it's probably still profitable...and while venting feels good doubt it's realistic to grab enough traction to get Airbnb to notice
They have not yet charged back, just shared their intention at this point. I may take the case to the court for the sake of justice. I (just like any other host) am in business relationship with airbnb with terms and conditions well written, etc. They are very possibly in breach of contract. I've asked them to show me where did I approve that the Extenuating Circumstances leads to the host refund and not just airbnb. Awiting their response. Don't feel good to just let them walk away. We'll see how they react.
And yes , by publishing, I hope other hosts fight them each time they bully.
Maybe you could document how to take them to small claims (and increase your odds of winning) and then seo it so they end up with bunch of tiny cases all over the country.
But honestly this doesn't sound like the best use of your time unless you have extra and just want to make a point. I'd assume the overall % of this happening is low enough you could bake in extra per night to cover this when/if it comes up.
I'd imagine the guest is far more valuable to Airbnb then the host, same way Uber or Lyft more inclined to make the rider happy at expense of drivers.
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes7y
Originally posted by @Matt K.:
Originally posted by @Kevin Lefeuvre:
Originally posted by @Matt K.:
Seems like a win for Airbnb if all that happens is few angry posts from hosts and likely happy guest ...
With that said, I'd bake the cost in my pricing and or remove my listing feom Airbnb. Probably not the second part though because it's probably still profitable...and while venting feels good doubt it's realistic to grab enough traction to get Airbnb to notice
They have not yet charged back, just shared their intention at this point. I may take the case to the court for the sake of justice. I (just like any other host) am in business relationship with airbnb with terms and conditions well written, etc. They are very possibly in breach of contract. I've asked them to show me where did I approve that the Extenuating Circumstances leads to the host refund and not just airbnb. Awiting their response. Don't feel good to just let them walk away. We'll see how they react.
And yes , by publishing, I hope other hosts fight them each time they bully.
Maybe you could document how to take them to small claims (and increase your odds of winning) and then seo it so they end up with bunch of tiny cases all over the country.
But honestly this doesn't sound like the best use of your time unless you have extra and just want to make a point. I'd assume the overall % of this happening is low enough you could bake in extra per night to cover this when/if it comes up.
I'd imagine the guest is far more valuable to Airbnb then the host, same way Uber or Lyft more inclined to make the rider happy at expense of drivers.
The comparison with Uber is exactly their strategy. The difference is that I (like many others) am mostly a "vacation rental" homeowner or more precisely a "entire unit short term rental" (since I have urban unit too) and not "a cheap room". Airbnb is ideal for occasional hosts with a room or two inside a bigger house. The distinction needs to be made more clearly.
I think that "entire unit short term rental" is a huge space left open in the market , with VRBO being the only player addressing it (at least for the mid-range to high-end part of it) at this point. There is room for a few more players.The number of times this happens is very small but added to "Security deposit with airbnb is a joke" and "Airbnb only considers physical damage", and a few other things we have discussed in this forum before, the number of disputes between hosts and airbnb should be much more than that IMHO. The point being, these are on the field "bullying" practices, not documented anywhere in their terms or "contract" with the hosts.
- Rental Property Investor · Hartford, CT · Member since 2017 · 168 posts · 163 votes7y
@Kevin Lefeuvre
Airbnb will refund fully for certain things, and illness with proof of a doctors visit is one of them. I had to cancel once for a month long stay a week in advance due to pneumonia, and the host literally wanted to keep $1100, which I thought was excessive. And he admitted to not having any other requests during the time that I had requested, so he didn’t lose business.
As a host, you can change your cancellation policy to keep most of the funds even if people cancel, which is what I had mine set to as a host. However, I nearly always called Airbnb and issued a refund to people that cancelled and called me or texted me to let me know. It’s just money, and I feel the good karma is better than the money.
So ask yourself this, if you spend a bunch of money on a reservation, and your trip went bust bc you or your child was sick, would you prefer grace or to pay for a vacation you never went on?
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes7y
Originally posted by @Heidi Kenefick:
@Kevin Lefeuvre
Airbnb will refund fully for certain things, and illness with proof of a doctors visit is one of them. I had to cancel once for a month long stay a week in advance due to pneumonia, and the host literally wanted to keep $1100, which I thought was excessive. And he admitted to not having any other requests during the time that I had requested, so he didn’t lose business.
As a host, you can change your cancellation policy to keep most of the funds even if people cancel, which is what I had mine set to as a host. However, I nearly always called Airbnb and issued a refund to people that cancelled and called me or texted me to let me know. It’s just money, and I feel the good karma is better than the money.
So ask yourself this, if you spend a bunch of money on a reservation, and your trip went bust bc you or your child was sick, would you prefer grace or to pay for a vacation you never went on?
Your host could not possibly "admit" he had no requests. When dates on a calendar are taken, the property does not show in any search for those dates on airbnb. So of course the host will not get new inquiries because dates show occupied. Duh!
Appreciate your "spiritual" or "religious" comment and advice, but keep that for yourself as I keep mine for myself and make my judgement. BP is a business community and my post is about business.
BTW since you don't seem to have read all the conversation here: noone is questioning the illness, but the party who should pay for the loss, the $60B valued corporation (i.e. airbnb) who has decided this policy only with the guest, an insurance company or the hard working entrepreneur? - Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes7y
Originally posted by @John D.:
I've been fearing an extenuating circumstance cancellation for a while. I'm particularly scared of our 5-figure reservations during the Festivals....
Unless someone distributes poisonous food in the area to all your guests at the same time, you should be good. Haha!
But I hear you: circumstances can be anything.... "act of god" ... the big one. - Rental Property Investor · Hartford, CT · Member since 2017 · 168 posts · 163 votes7y
@Kevin Lefeuvre
Well, with that type of attitude toward business you will make less, IMO. My Airbnb has about a 5 percent vacancy, and I was literally turning people away.
As for the blocked dates, I’m familiar with it, but I always met with people I would be staying with outside of Airbnb, and had been talking to the host I cancelled with for weeks before I booked, and cancelled within 48 hours. So yes, he did admit that no one else in the time we had been in discussions had made an inquiry, so your assumption to know better is ignorant.
And yes, I did read the posts from other people, but the point is, Airbnb shouldn’t have to pay for cancellations. If you cancel at a holiday inn, they will refund you. It’s why people book hotels, and why people book Airbnb, they know if **** hits the fan they aren’t stuck. It’s called good customer service! If you provide a good product, people will keep coming and staying. If you are just in it for the cash, then you really are clueless to what the Airbnb community is attempting to achieve.
- Rental Property Investor · Campbell, CA · Member since 2017 · 419 posts · 499 votes7y
@Heidi Kenefick I think you’re completely wrong.
Holiday inn has their policies.
I have mine and the guest reviews and agrees prior to booking.
Airbnb shouldn’t be able to supersede my legally binding contract because ‘they want to’.
My refund policy is clear as day and a guest has the option to book travel insurance for these situations. Should a traveler choose not to that should be on them. Not me. I’m running a business. Not a charity.
If you want to give away your revenue for ‘good customer service’ that’s your choice. Don’t take away my choice.
- Rental Property Investor · Amarillo, TX · Member since 2012 · 2 posts · 1 vote7y@Kevin Lefeuvre Same thing happened to us, but it was a guest who was traveling for work and the job got cancelled. It was a 3 week stay for $2700 and we got a charge back for the whole amount. The guest cancelled on the day he was scheduled to arrive and it took Airbnb almost a week to review his documentation. During this time we were unable to even open the dates up on our calendar to try and rebook the home. After this we raised our rates on Airbnb and even encourage Airbnb guests to use homeaway if they don't instant book. Homeaway is probably 80% of our bookings anyway and tend to produce better guests for our high end properties.
- Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 565 posts · 391 votes7y
Originally posted by @Kenny Trotter:
@Kevin Lefeuvre Same thing happened to us, but it was a guest who was traveling for work and the job got cancelled. It was a 3 week stay for $2700 and we got a charge back for the whole amount. The guest cancelled on the day he was scheduled to arrive and it took Airbnb almost a week to review his documentation. During this time we were unable to even open the dates up on our calendar to try and rebook the home.After this we raised our rates on Airbnb and even encourage Airbnb guests to use homeaway if they don't instant book. Homeaway is probably 80% of our bookings anyway and tend to produce better guests for our high end properties.
Unbelievable!
Thanks for sharing your story Kenny.
My rates on airbnb are also higher to compensate all these issues.
Question: How do you communicate with the guest prior to booking to tell them to book on VRBO/HA ? I've never tried it but thought it would be filtered out.
- Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes7y
@Heidi Kenefick, I also usually do the full refund thing for serious reasons. My rentals are only $80 to $100 per night so I don't have the huge loss some of these folks might. I only use VRBO at the moment, but have been considering adding AIR BnB and try to watch my calendars closely. I rent the entire half of a duplex so I figured VRBO would be a better fit.
I get where @Kevin Lefeuvre is coming from though. It wouldn't take many cancellations to affect your bottom line. it is also not fair that they don't listen to the host before making their mind up. The process is nice, but it needs some balance.
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