Where in OH are you investing and Why?

96 Replies

@Michael Klinger thanks for sharing all that info! Looks like I might have to take a more serious look at the Cincy area if the taxes are cheaper and there is no POS like in northern OH. 

@Brooks F. , thanks for the laugh. At the end of the day we all have goals we want to attain and we may have to go where others do not want us to go. Are you in Cincy proper or suburbs? What class areas? If I do end up choosing OH as my place of investing I will take your consideration. My thought was at least a week out there but just hanging out in NE OH. Maybe a better idea to fly into Cincy and drive north to Cleveland to get a feel for the state.

@Sunny D. , it would be great if you uploaded a profile pic that way I can see who is sharing all this wisdom with myself and the group! Did you look at all of OH for investing, why did you choose your specific area?

Another question, anybody invest in the Troy,OH area? Small town I know. One of my coworkers just moved out there and there and has been enjoying the area. Looks like some opportunity there as well but then again there is the risk of investing in a small town. 

Originally posted by @Sunny D. :
Originally posted by @Brooks F.:

Don't invest in OHIO.

It is AWFUL.

And by awful I mean that every time I find a property I want, there's some guy from California bidding against me. Fortunately a lot of sellers have said they get frustrated with california investors, so I've gotten the chance to play clean up a few times... CA investors who don't understand the midwest > annoy the heck out of sellers > Sellers tell them to go away, and I swoop in as it leaves pending status...

I guess that is becoming my strategy... haha.

No really though, I invest in Southern Ohio. Its growing quickly, and is being reclassed as a larger metro area by the fed gov't, so jobs and whatnot are on the upswing. Population growth is 2x what it is in the rest of the state, and I find so many CF positive deals the only hurdle is if I can close them fast enough before someone from CA comes in with an all-cash offer.

I have talked to a number of lenders that are getting wary of the heavy out-of-state buying going on, and they are expecting higher LTVs from out of state buyers.

It may be worth a trip to Ohio. spend a weekend going from Cincinnati to Cleveland to Toledo and get a sense of the place. 

 seriously you have no clue on economics. the CA money does help prop up prices overall. There is a huge inventory and without out of state buyers looking for yields, you are looking at longer DOM and lower sales price.

Second, CA investors are willing to spend money on rehab. that is creating plenty of jobs. If I was in Ohio, i would want more out of state money to flow in and help pick up economy.

 Take it with a grain of salt @Sunny D. I'm attempting to make humor by stating "haha" and "No really though", followed by welcoming advice to come visit the state and get a handle on it.

This is one example that may be somewhat cultural- I know when I lived in NY, everyone took everything seriously. In the midwest, I don't even take a police officer pulling me over literal. Just another type of reason to visit!

We can save the economics discussion for another post (But of which I'd gladly have- it would be an interesting discussion really, but its probably not worth clogging this up. As a collegiate professor and someone who runs an econometrics program for one of the largest companies in the area, these types of debates are truly enjoyable) 


Happy Investing!

Originally posted by @Kevin Moules :

@Michael Klinger thanks for sharing all that info! Looks like I might have to take a more serious look at the Cincy area if the taxes are cheaper and there is no POS like in northern OH. 

@Brooks F., thanks for the laugh. At the end of the day we all have goals we want to attain and we may have to go where others do not want us to go. Are you in Cincy proper or suburbs? What class areas? If I do end up choosing OH as my place of investing I will take your consideration. My thought was at least a week out there but just hanging out in NE OH. Maybe a better idea to fly into Cincy and drive north to Cleveland to get a feel for the state.

@Sunny D. , it would be great if you uploaded a profile pic that way I can see who is sharing all this wisdom with myself and the group! Did you look at all of OH for investing, why did you choose your specific area?

Another question, anybody invest in the Troy,OH area? Small town I know. One of my coworkers just moved out there and there and has been enjoying the area. Looks like some opportunity there as well but then again there is the risk of investing in a small town. 

 Funny you mention Troy. I'm part of a development project there. I've been involved in Lima down to Cincinnati (I75 Corridor). Most the growth is between Cincinnati and Dayton. In Troy you are going to be fairly limited to C/C- properties. If that is your game, I think you can do well. There are some As/Bs, but I don't think the market is there to support it, so you might have a hard time filling rents profitably. There are some huge new strong A complexes being built at the moment and that is going to put some pressure on an already thin upper side of the market.


You may get some better deals just south of Troy in Tipp City. It is a smaller market, but it has the benefit of being within "working" distance of Dayton growth, pulling more Dayton demand and allowing you to compete with the Dayton markets. Troy might pull from North Dayton, but again most the growth is south of 675.

I'm involved as an investor primarily in B and C commercial, although I do some consulting with A and Bs as well as economic development projects. In addition, I'm an opportunistic investor in multifamily's when I notice the collective market is confused (ie- when a big corporation is adding thousands of jobs to a town yet firesale prices exist on all the RE). Parts of Ohio can be mini-rollercoasters. 

@Brooks F. , Don't worry, i got your humor! Its was appreciated. Your right about things not being taken seriously in the midwest, part of why I enjoyed spending 9 months traveling around there doing missionary work.

I guess if I were to be more correct he moved to Tipp City, but I mentioned Troy as it is a little bigger. Wiki says Tipp City has a population of 10K. Seems like a small pool of renters for buy and hold investing, but what do I know, I am just the new kid on the block :) 

I appreciate your input to this thread. Guess I will have to drive across the state like you said. It is overwhelming where a person can invest. Maybe i can pick up a car in Cincy with half a tank and go till it dies, then make that my investment city, that makes it a little easier :) 

thanks !

Originally posted by @Kevin Moules :

@Brooks F., Don't worry, i got your humor! Its was appreciated. Your right about things not being taken seriously in the midwest, part of why I enjoyed spending 9 months traveling around there doing missionary work.

I guess if I were to be more correct he moved to Tipp City, but I mentioned Troy as it is a little bigger. Wiki says Tipp City has a population of 10K. Seems like a small pool of renters for buy and hold investing, but what do I know, I am just the new kid on the block :) 

I appreciate your input to this thread. Guess I will have to drive across the state like you said. It is overwhelming where a person can invest. Maybe i can pick up a car in Cincy with half a tank and go till it dies, then make that my investment city, that makes it a little easier :) 

thanks !

Troy is bigger, but Tipp City is within a 30 minute drive of all of Dayton, including Wright Patterson Airforce Base, and is right on the main corridor. In fact, the Dayton Airport is pretty much in Tipp City. Its also within 30 minutes of Springfield, OH, which in itself is 3x larger than Troy 

Not disagreeing, but Ohio does not have public transit to speak of. Virtually your entire market will be commuters, and I find the market range of a property in this area to be about 30 minutes. Tipp city has a much MUCH larger market within 30 minutes than Troy does, probably by 10 fold... but again it depends on your strategy. Troy is limited to... well... Troy (and a little bit of north dayton)

Not talking you out of Troy, just offering more to think about. I tend to be pretty risk adverse, and it only takes one employer to move out of Troy to cause demand issues. Take Lima for example, Population growth has been in decline for years. While Troy is hovering... growing below the state average, which is one of my REI investment factors. I only invest where growth exceeds the state avg.

Good luck with your investing adventures!

@Kevin Moules If you're interested in the greater Dayton market, and you're planning a visit, I'd be happy to show you around. We're investing in areas just north of Dayton (Huber Heights) all the way south to Middletown (directly between Cincy and Dayton). 

@Brooks F. is right about the larger metro area. Both Cincy and Dayton are expanding towards one another. It's creating great RE opportunites even outside those proper city limits. And he is completely correct about commuters. It's pretty standard for almost everyone to own a vehicle and commute. I at one point lived in Dayton and worked in downtown Cincinnati. One hour communte, each way, in good traffic. But, it's not out of the question for many people. 

In Q4 of this year, we plan to begin operations in Cincinnati so we will be covering both major markets and all areas in between. 

@Brooks F. offering more to think about is the reason I joined BP. I mean look how much info has been shared in these 4 short pages ages alone!! It is pretty awesome. Regarding your growth note, I did see that NE ohio some of the population is decreasing. From what I have researched so far many investors are not ok with investing in an areas where population is declining. Makes sense to me. From what I gather you would put more of your eggs in the Tipp City basket than Troy.  That is good to know. Maybe I will figure out how to get my coworker there involved with my deals if I do decide to go with OH. 

@Kevin Moules Deals in Tipp City are slim pickings. We look for small multi-families all over Miami county (or a good deal on a BRRRR single family opportunity), but not much to go around in Tipp. If you find one you think is a good deal there, odds are my eyes are on it too so fair warning ;)

@Cory O'Dell thanks for the friendly competition :) I would not be interested in a BRRR property across the country at this time. Maybe when I am as cool as David Greene I can fell comfortable doing that. I just looked on realtor.com in miami county and you are right, not much for small multis but are there cases where SFH would cash flow?

@Kevin Moules Plenty of opportunities for cash flow in SFR, just not as much as in small multi-families IMO. At least in the ones I've looked at that's been the case. But with small multi-families being a little harder to find we also look at single families. Just have to be patient in finding the right one in the right location.

Also, don't have to be David Greene to do the BRRRR strategy! We chose Ohio because I have family there (and it's where I grew up), and they'll be our people "on the ground" for things we need help with on that front. My point is that we're investing from out of country, not just out of state (time difference sucks!), and it's doable if you set up your team. I say that because value-add is the best way to build equity in a property, even if you skip the "refinance" and "repeat" part of the acronym. IMO if you're not buying value-add you might as well buy turnkey and be totally hands-off.

@Cory O'Dell , very good points there on your last sentence. As Josh and Brandon would say in a podcast, that is a tweetable topic :). Although you are investing out of state the area is not foreign to you as it would be to me. Since you grew up there you have intimate knowledge of the area. It is also nice that you have family here that is willing to help you out with the properties. 

As time goes on and I keep reading more I think I am going to try harder to find something in CA or AZ to start with and once I have that under my belt then start looking further out of the area. At least these are the current thoughts going through my mind.

Thanks!

@Kevin Moules I am a bit late to this discussion but I have lived in Roseville for the last 16 months and I recently quit my job to move back to Dayton to invest in real estate there. 

My goal is to close on a duplex by year end. I am focused on the West Carrolton, Beavercreek, and Huber Heights areas. 

Thank you all for your amazing input!! This thread has been such a wealth of knowledge. I am now even a greater BP addict after it. After discussing RE with my wonderful wife we are going to start off trying to find something in CA or AZ and hopefully CA within 3 hr radius of our location. This will help get our toes into the water and gain some experience. With some time under our belts and growing in knowledge I think we will then look seriously at OH. Will be better to learn how to deal with tenants and PM and everything else closer to home than across the country. The buy in is more expensive of course but hard to put a price on experience. As day's end we can always 1031 our properties and buy 2 for the process of one. Thank you all again and look forward to working with some of you in the future!

I looked all over the greater Dayton area before going all in to the northern part of zip 45405 in 2012-2015. I love the construction quality and architecture of this mid-century modern era neighborhood (1920-1970). Lots of really pretty and high quality construction smaller homes. There is fantastic cash flow and the area is breaking out over 50k for a decent sf rental home. Nowadays, the area is C/C+/B- which varies from block to block and north to south. Figure 70k for an all fixed up sf that will rent for around 850 per month and taxes around 100. Like a lot of C class neighborhoods in Ohio, this area is highly de-leveraged. But this breakout over 50 means a lot of non-cash buyers are moving in. Look 5 times as many sales in the last six month as there are places remaining for sale. I predict it is going to go a lot higher!

Good luck

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/6m_days/glob...

Originally posted by @Benny Gelbendorf :

Hi @Sunny D.

Are your home in Parma is SFH or multi-family ? Does it produces same CF and IRR as the others ?

Thanks,

Benny

 just a duplex. abt 150$ cashflow after 15yr mortgage assuming its tenanted

I'm a newbie both to BP and RE investing and I am just pending selling my first fix-and-flip SFR in Marion OH about 40 mins north of Columbus on a land contract holding a note. I had done well as an owner trading up my principle residence half a dozen times as markets rose during the 80s and 90s but sold out during the dot com bust in 2002 and have been a Silicon Valley renter paying through the nose since then staying close to my tech job. In 2015 I went crazy and bought a "starts at $1" tall grass property on ********** for under $5k and have been slowly fixing it as money allows. Started with my brother in law who lives near Chicago as my contractor, but it was too far away for him and I have switched to a local guy who is good and cheap but not so fast (can pick 2 out of the 3). Kept the shell but gutted and redid everything inside plus redid the siding. It was a 2 bed 1 bath and is now a 3 bed 2 bath with a master suite. Have handled everything remotely except for one trip back east I did last summer for a family reunion and I took a side trip to Ohio, stayed in a cheap Airbnb and worked on the house for about 10 days and got to know my contractor a bit. While ripping off the old siding I only needed 4 cans of wasp spray and didn't get stung YAY!!. Have over $60k in the rehab and it still isn't complete (needs flooring/trim/paint) and I've sold carrying a note near break even to stop and reverse the cash drain and defer any tax issues until after I retire. It's been a big learning experience to say the least :-) . I did a few things right - buy cheap, good location in a better neighborhood on the east side of town near Ohio State campus and all the big box stores, and was lucky I found a good and cheap contractor. However it took 3 years (!) which is about 2 more than I was expecting.

I lived in Cincy for 31 years. I am investing in C and B class apartment buildings there. I have partners on the ground, and I like the direction the city is headed in. It's much more interesting place than it was when I left 6 years ago.

I have moved out of residential - it doesn't scale in this market IMO. Some have found a way to overcome the lending hurdles. To each their own. It's a good way to get started and learn what you're doing.

I don't care about $/door. I don't even look at it. I care about CoC, IRR, and cap rate. It's all about how much return you are earning per dollar invested.

I sell in Louisville, but I'm from a suburb of Dayton and Cincinnati. There are some great areas in Cinci to build a portfolio, a lot of areas turning over.