Beginner Investor - South Bronx - Multifamily Buy/Hold

32 Replies

Hi - 

Following some time of study and savings, I'm looking to make my first deal in South Bronx. My strategy is Buy&Hold Multifamily properties. My previous career was Graphic Designer, I would be happy to provide some marketing value in this area to any active investors and other RE professionals in the area who believe they can provide experience value related to my strategy.

Best and thank you

Naz

@Nazimcan Suvag

Welcome. 

Locate and attend 3 different local REIA club meetings great place to meet people gather resources and info. Here you will meet wholesalers who provide deals and rehabbers (cash buyers). You can Google to locate them and go to meetup.com

Two Great reads, I bought both J. Scott The Book on Flipping Houses, The Book on Estimating ReHab Costs http://www.biggerpockets.com/flippingbook

Consider checking out HUD homes for small multi's owner occupied gets first crack.

You might consider Niche or Specialized Housing like student housing. Rents can be 2-4 times more. Remember you don't have to own a property to control it.

Download BP’s newest book here some good due diligence in Chapter 10. Real Estate Rewind Starting over

http://www.biggerpockets.com/files/user/brandonatbp/file/real-estate-rewind-a-biggerpockets-community-book

Good Luck

Paul 

The South Bronx???  Where in the south Bronx are you talking about.  Much of the south Bronx is a problem area.  Do you know the Bronx and know what streets you are targeting?

@Barbara G. - It would great to hear you elaborate about the specific problems. I've been walking the streets and also in touch with local investors in that area, who own a 3+ multifamily units. Depending on the deal of course, I'm Port Morris and Mott Haven area. 

Originally posted by @Nazimcan Suvag:

@Barbara G. - It would great to hear you elaborate about the specific problems. I've been walking the streets and also in touch with local investors in that area, who own a 3+ multifamily units. Depending on the deal of course, I'm Port Morris and Mott Haven area. 

=====================================================

The problem is so much of the Bronx has become a war zone.

I don't know the south Bronx Port Morris Mott Haven Area  What streets do Mott Haven and Port Morris cover?  Where do you come from??

I come from the upper Bronx  originally and later lived in the Fordham area.  My mother had a bussiness in the Fordham area and we saw it become a War Zone and go from middle class to a war zone almost over night.  The Grand Concourse apartments were huge and beautiful with drop living rooms and attached dining areas.  Of course if they house family kind of people I guess they could work?

When I was selling my house in Yonkers New York  Bronx  residents would come up and look at it and say "I live on the Concourse and my Bedroom set has 2 huge chests and a King size bed and it would never fit in your bedroom.  Yes those apartments were huge.

@Barbara G. The South Bronx is an area many people in the city see as the next great location for development and investment. The past 20 years, yes, it's been a tough area. But it has direct subway access to midtown Manhattan, very reasonable prices for type of housing available, and diversity not just of residents but also housing stock. There was recently an article in the NY Times about this. Not that long ago people would have said Williamsburg, Park Slope, and Bushwick were war zones. Now they are all highly desirable. There aren't a lot of options for areas with easy commutes. I think the South Bronx has a lot of potential for greatness despite its historic perceptions. Part of my opinion comes from working there several years ago for the city and seeing the beautiful buildings, easy commute, and also the changing demographics. 

Originally posted by @Carl C. :

@Barbara G. The South Bronx is an area many people in the city see as the next great location for development and investment. The past 20 years, yes, it's been a tough area. But it has direct subway access to midtown Manhattan, very reasonable prices for type of housing available, and diversity not just of residents but also housing stock. There was recently an article in the NY Times about this. Not that long ago people would have said Williamsburg, Park Slope, and Bushwick were war zones. Now they are all highly desirable. There aren't a lot of options for areas with easy commutes. I think the South Bronx has a lot of potential for greatness despite its historic perceptions. Part of my opinion comes from working there several years ago for the city and seeing the beautiful buildings, easy commute, and also the changing demographics. 

 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I was sort of thinking about what you were saying after I posted my reply.  I only really know the Concourse area and is that The D TRAIN Independent line?  Yes The Lower area of the  Grand Concourse would be very close to Manhattan.  That area also had the best looking housing stock.  Would you say the West Bronx/Concourse area has the best potential?  You can even go further North and get some interesting areas.

It is a very easy commute.

Should Naz be concentrating on that area rather then the East Bronx ?

 @Nazimcan Suvag: Me and my girlfriend are also looking in that area. To me it will be at least 10yrs before it gets gentrified...First all of east harlem has to get gentrified. And I also tell her that to get to the trains you have to pass the projects which can be a little scary if your not from the area.... 
Originally posted by @Will Bert :
 @Nazimcan Suvag: Me and my girlfriend are also looking in that area. To me it will be at least 10yrs before it gets gentrified...First all of east harlem has to get gentrified. And I also tell her that to get to the trains you have to pass the projects which can be a little scary if your not from the area.... 

 10 Years isn't too bad.  Where does Gentrification sort of stop in the city?  What street on the East Side and what street on the West side.

What about Washington Heights on the West side?? 

Where does East Harlem start o the East Side??

@Barbara G. I am by no means an expert in the Bronx but strictly speaking from my experience, I agree the lower Concourse area should be a prime target. I also think there are some beautiful brownstones in Mott Haven in the 140s and also in Longwood. I've even seen areas closer to the East River ( I think it was in Hunts Point) that could easily pass for Dumbo 20 years ago. Lots of places with potential if you can get in and wait it out for a few years. 

Originally posted by @Carl C. :

@Barbara G. I am by no means an expert in the Bronx but strictly speaking from my experience, I agree the lower Concourse area should be a prime target. I also think there are some beautiful brownstones in Mott Haven in the 140s and also in Longwood. I've even seen areas closer to the East River ( I think it was in Hunts Point) that could easily pass for Dumbo 20 years ago. Lots of places with potential if you can get in and wait it out for a few years. 

Hunts Point?

My Uncles had a Body and Fender bussiness there.  Its a nightmare there.  Around the Hunts Point Market prostitutes solicit in the streets. Drug dealers are on every corner.  The Drug dealer's customers down there looking for them are on every corner.   I had the misfortune of driving through there, getting lost in those streets there,  last year and I was scared to death.

Where exactly is Longwood and on what streets is Mott Haven?

My interest is/was piqued about this area because it was not yet gentrified. I've lived in NYC for the past 14 years in every single borough and have a great vibe for this city. NYC is a behemoth that shows no signs of slowing down growth in the foreseeable future. Brooklyn is already priced out, so is Queens and Bronx is next. I say priced out for a great investment. 

There is nothing stopping the waterfront Bronx(Port Harris) from becoming the next Willimasburg, it is kind of inevitable in my opinion. Plans for waterfront renovation have already passed, plans for luxury residentials have already been announced, art gallery's are starting to pop up, there is wall art(not grafitti) everywhere. I think we all what these things mean. Sure if I house hack, I may have to live in not such a desirable area for a little but I think I can handle it. It all comes back to the deal. If its a good deal I'm two feet in SoBro (they even have a hip name for the neighborhood)

@Nazimcan Suvag

@Carl C.

I agree with you both. I would like to target the south Bronx but my fiancé couldn't live there the way it is now. It definitely has potential and I hear it a lot from Bronx residents. I was just in red hook Brooklyn last night and it sure did remind me of Mott haven and port Morris. Red hook is right on the water across from Manhattan through the battery tunnel and wow did that area change for the better, but where the projects are is still straight ghetto and might never change. So be careful because you need to truly know the block by block boundaries and where a bad part just can't turn into a good part. In the south Bronx it seems like the area near the clock tower has changed for the better. The south Bronx has been pushing for change for a long time but it just never happened. The area is littered with projects. But the south Bronx 139th st train station is an extremely short ride to grand central. And definitely follow the artists. They start the trends.

@Chris Rosenberg - Yeah around the clocktower, bruckner blvd etc. - I went into an art gallery and talked to this person who worked there and asked what she's been noticing, also did that with a few other businesses. They all said "more white people" haha, but seriously, I think this area is waiting for BK & Queens to be tapped out. Until then I dont expect shower of vegan cafes but the signs show they are well on their way and investing is a risk. If it was already there, then that's not much of a foresight capability to be rewarded on is it?

@Nazimcan Suvag

I agree, if it was already there...

Born and raised in nyc I've been everywhere and I've seen lots of places change, especially in Brooklyn. I've noticed that prices rise before you even start seeing the changes. The beginning of the change you would never know unless you were very familiar with the area. But some places just feel like gentrification is inevitable. 

I was over by the clock tower and the areas surrounding it a few months ago on a Saturday afternoon. I noticed it was like a ghost town. Shops and restaurants were closed in that little section by the clock tower and I was wondering why. Also, I heard that the guy who renovated the clock tower is going to be doing more projects like that very close by. Where were the art galleries you visited?

Port Morris was also desolate and kids with dirt bikes were riding around all over. Mott Haven above bruckner is littered with projects. It's tough to really know the ins and outs when you don't live or work there. 

@Chris Rosenberg - Exactly. The prices rise before the average person knows whats up. We should be striving to be more than the average person. If we look at things through the eyes of a regular home buyer we are doomed. So, I'm very wary of opinions and advice. If someone hasnt done exactly what I want to do, I'm deaf, blind, mute. I got my information from a few local blogs I'm subscribed to as well as few residential and commercial real estate newsletters. I even follow big newsletters like BISNOW, because you simply learn and get a sensibility for the overall playing fieled. What? Kushner announced a development, well you'll know. What? Whole Foods signed a lease? Well you'll know. 

The galleries are by the clocktower too. Also, Bruckner Artist Residences. I may be a little too eager but when you're telling me Port Harris and Mott Haven above Brucker seem undesirable for a regular home buyer, you are just growing my appetite :) Perfect. That's what I'm looking for. Also check this out

http://nymag.com/nymetro/realestate/columns/realestate/11871/

@Nazimcan Suvag Where is Bruckner Artist Residences? I couldn't find any info on it. The article you linked to I've read. Also 

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/bronx/bronx-hi...

http://ny.curbed.com/tags/south-bronx

https://www.halstead.com/about-us/recent-press/art...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/realestate/poten...

http://forgotten-ny.com/2013/11/mott-haven

They all make the area sound exciting but the landscape seems different than other places that gentrified. Not along the water but further in, on the other side of the Bruckner. There are just so many projects there. 

What local blogs are you subscribed to? Also, my fianc

@Barbara G. The same could be said about East NY, Bushwick and many other areas that are not hot. I would not have wanted to set foot in any of these places and on many blocks still don't. Same for parts of East Harlem.  Time seems to have proved that people will put up with a scary walk home to save $500K or so and be in the up and coming area. 

Originally posted by @Nazimcan Suvag:

@Chris Rosenberg -

motthavenbar.com/

This place is pretty cool

Question:

That area was always terrible and very old.  What is the housing stock like?  Are they brownstones or walk ups?   What economic level lived there before?  What age houses are you looking at?  How near are they to projects?  Is it like the Arthur Avenue Area??
Thanks

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