New to Bigger Pockets and Real Estate Investing

New to Bigger Pockets and Real Estate Investing

Novato, CA · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 1 vote

I'm excited to have joined such an amazing community of like minded investors. I'm just starting out in real estate investing, but I do own my current residence in CA.

I have a real estate agent and a property manager in Indianapolis helping me search for deals and they seem like great guys from as far as I can tell. I'm also looking to connect with some folks on the ground in Alabama. I don't plan on buying something unless the agent and property manager agree on the purchase.

I'm looking to build a nice portfolio of SFH's and do my best to pay them off as quickly as possible. Maybe conventional loans on five homes with a goal of paying off two of them in seven years. I realize this might eat up capital for additional investments and slow growth, but it has more to do with how much debt I'm willing to live with.

Some things I'm struggling with:

1) It's tempting to pull the trigger on a turnkey home where the numbers are just below the 1% mark and the neighborhood is decent. At the same time, I keep reminding myself that I probably need to add value or equity to really do it right (easier said then done being out of state). I might just go for the 'move in ready' on the first purchase to minimize risk.

2) All I can think about is "will the property rent after I purchase?". I care more about that then a lawsuit, eviction or economic downturn. If I can find a good tenant for my first purchase, it will somehow justify all the insane hours I put into learning about real estate investing. 

3) I review suggested properties on the MLS that are in good neighborhoods and then check on zillow to see how many rentals are in the surrounding area. I'll find anywhere from 4 to 5 properties that have been vacant for rent over 60 days. Some are priced too high, but it definitely gets in your head when determining a neighborhood to purchase in. And sure enough, the house I was just looking at accepts an offer just days after being listed.

Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. All the best!

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Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
8y
Originally posted by @Chris Marsh:

I'm excited to have joined such an amazing community of like minded investors. I'm just starting out in real estate investing, but I do own my current residence in CA.

I have a real estate agent and a property manager in Indianapolis helping me search for deals and they seem like great guys from as far as I can tell. I'm also looking to connect with some folks on the ground in Alabama. I don't plan on buying something unless the agent and property manager agree on the purchase.

I'm looking to build a nice portfolio of SFH's and do my best to pay them off as quickly as possible. Maybe conventional loans on five homes with a goal of paying off two of them in seven years. I realize this might eat up capital for additional investments and slow growth, but it has more to do with how much debt I'm willing to live with.

Some things I'm struggling with:

1) It's tempting to pull the trigger on a turnkey home where the numbers are just below the 1% mark and the neighborhood is decent. At the same time, I keep reminding myself that I probably need to add value or equity to really do it right (easier said then done being out of state). I might just go for the 'move in ready' on the first purchase to minimize risk.

2) All I can think about is "will the property rent after I purchase?". I care more about that then a lawsuit, eviction or economic downturn. If I can find a good tenant for my first purchase, it will somehow justify all the insane hours I put into learning about real estate investing. 

3) I review suggested properties on the MLS that are in good neighborhoods and then check on zillow to see how many rentals are in the surrounding area. I'll find anywhere from 4 to 5 properties that have been vacant for rent over 60 days. Some are priced too high, but it definitely gets in your head when determining a neighborhood to purchase in. And sure enough, the house I was just looking at accepts an offer just days after being listed.

Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. All the best!

 Welcome to the site Chris.

It's not really that complicated to buy out of state. It only becomes complicated when investors try to over complicate or over think everything. Whenever you are buying a property out of state you should do a few things to ensure it's as smooth as possible.

  • Don't buy in the roughest neighborhood in the urban core. Pick a solid B-Class suburban area. Perhaps a nice 1950's built bungalow.
  • Always hire a 3rd party property inspector to give you an unbiased feel for the home. The reports are 40-90 pages long and go through the entire house in great detail.
  • Get an appraisal. If your using financing the bank requires this. This is good. The bank isn't going to let you blow their money. They have more skin in the game then you do.
  • Make sure you get clear title. If using a lender this is a non issue. They will make you do this. It's those maniacs that buy homes cash via quit claim deed off of craigslist that really get screwed.
  • Make sure your property manager is a licensed real estate brokerage.
  • Understand you can not eliminate all risk, only mitigate it. If you are risk adverse real estate, (especially out of state) is not for you.
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  • Wholesaler and Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2009 · 438 posts · 293 votes
    8y

    Run your prospective purchases by me or someone like me. I am a wholesaler with experience.
    many deals look good on paper but can sink you if you do not know the neighborhood or

    the chances to get good tenants in the area. If you are in Indy you need to be SMASHING the 1% rule.
    It is not a good rule in Indianapolis unless you are purchasing A+ properties.

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 31k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Chris Marsh:

    I'm excited to have joined such an amazing community of like minded investors. I'm just starting out in real estate investing, but I do own my current residence in CA.

    I have a real estate agent and a property manager in Indianapolis helping me search for deals and they seem like great guys from as far as I can tell. I'm also looking to connect with some folks on the ground in Alabama. I don't plan on buying something unless the agent and property manager agree on the purchase.

    I'm looking to build a nice portfolio of SFH's and do my best to pay them off as quickly as possible. Maybe conventional loans on five homes with a goal of paying off two of them in seven years. I realize this might eat up capital for additional investments and slow growth, but it has more to do with how much debt I'm willing to live with.

    Some things I'm struggling with:

    1) It's tempting to pull the trigger on a turnkey home where the numbers are just below the 1% mark and the neighborhood is decent. At the same time, I keep reminding myself that I probably need to add value or equity to really do it right (easier said then done being out of state). I might just go for the 'move in ready' on the first purchase to minimize risk.

    2) All I can think about is "will the property rent after I purchase?". I care more about that then a lawsuit, eviction or economic downturn. If I can find a good tenant for my first purchase, it will somehow justify all the insane hours I put into learning about real estate investing. 

    3) I review suggested properties on the MLS that are in good neighborhoods and then check on zillow to see how many rentals are in the surrounding area. I'll find anywhere from 4 to 5 properties that have been vacant for rent over 60 days. Some are priced too high, but it definitely gets in your head when determining a neighborhood to purchase in. And sure enough, the house I was just looking at accepts an offer just days after being listed.

    Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. All the best!

     Welcome to the site Chris.

    It's not really that complicated to buy out of state. It only becomes complicated when investors try to over complicate or over think everything. Whenever you are buying a property out of state you should do a few things to ensure it's as smooth as possible.

    • Don't buy in the roughest neighborhood in the urban core. Pick a solid B-Class suburban area. Perhaps a nice 1950's built bungalow.
    • Always hire a 3rd party property inspector to give you an unbiased feel for the home. The reports are 40-90 pages long and go through the entire house in great detail.
    • Get an appraisal. If your using financing the bank requires this. This is good. The bank isn't going to let you blow their money. They have more skin in the game then you do.
    • Make sure you get clear title. If using a lender this is a non issue. They will make you do this. It's those maniacs that buy homes cash via quit claim deed off of craigslist that really get screwed.
    • Make sure your property manager is a licensed real estate brokerage.
    • Understand you can not eliminate all risk, only mitigate it. If you are risk adverse real estate, (especially out of state) is not for you.
  • Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Chris Marsh:

    I'm excited to have joined such an amazing community of like minded investors. I'm just starting out in real estate investing, but I do own my current residence in CA.

    I have a real estate agent and a property manager in Indianapolis helping me search for deals and they seem like great guys from as far as I can tell. I'm also looking to connect with some folks on the ground in Alabama. I don't plan on buying something unless the agent and property manager agree on the purchase.

    I'm looking to build a nice portfolio of SFH's and do my best to pay them off as quickly as possible. Maybe conventional loans on five homes with a goal of paying off two of them in seven years. I realize this might eat up capital for additional investments and slow growth, but it has more to do with how much debt I'm willing to live with.

    Some things I'm struggling with:

    1) It's tempting to pull the trigger on a turnkey home where the numbers are just below the 1% mark and the neighborhood is decent. At the same time, I keep reminding myself that I probably need to add value or equity to really do it right (easier said then done being out of state). I might just go for the 'move in ready' on the first purchase to minimize risk.

    2) All I can think about is "will the property rent after I purchase?". I care more about that then a lawsuit, eviction or economic downturn. If I can find a good tenant for my first purchase, it will somehow justify all the insane hours I put into learning about real estate investing. 

    3) I review suggested properties on the MLS that are in good neighborhoods and then check on zillow to see how many rentals are in the surrounding area. I'll find anywhere from 4 to 5 properties that have been vacant for rent over 60 days. Some are priced too high, but it definitely gets in your head when determining a neighborhood to purchase in. And sure enough, the house I was just looking at accepts an offer just days after being listed.

    Any advice or words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. All the best!

     Hello and welcome! BP is a great place to get started! Best of luck to you!

  • Real Estate Consultant · Whitestown, IN · Member since 2014 · 547 posts · 933 votes
    8y

    Welcome @Chris Marsh. I work with more buy/hold investors from California than anywhere else in the world. There is some really good advice here from both @Andy Rumple and @James Wise. Here's my take on working with OoS Investors.

    #1. Location - There are several good cash flow markets in the US and Indianapolis is one of the better ones. Picking your markets are half the battle. Understanding those markets are important too. I agree with Andy, the 1% rule is the absolute worst deal worth considering in Indianapolis. I roughly figure my max "all-in" price at 85 X 1 gross months potential rent for financed deals. My cash deals have to be closer to 60 X (similar to the old 2% rule) but they are harder to find and usually an asset class that doesn't interest me. I hate when my contractors get intimidated at gunpoint during a rehab. This just happened at a Haughville rehab I'm coordinating for an OoS investor. I am not a fan of investing in that neighborhood, but the buyer that the numbers looked good. It makes me wonder what kind of tenants we will be dealing with though.

    #2. Strategy - Personally, I'm a bigger fan of leveraged B Class investing. BRRRR is ok, but there are complications that are never really explored publically here. Most BRRRR deals are only netting about $500-$1,000/year, because everyone is refinancing all of their money out or more and the debt service kills their cash flow. That's fine, but somewhere... someone got an idea that they can BRRRR properties and cash flow $200+/mo on every deal and that's not usually the case. Other limitations to BRRRR are seasoning time, LTV limits, appraisal problems, etc. There really are a ton of strategies and some fit your resources and plans better than others. Talk to your PM and Broker to see where they are seeing success with their other investors.

    #3. Team - It sounds like you've already got your nucleus established. This is huge. Investment outfits generally only give you one perspective. Building a team from different companies/offices will give you better perspectives and you are much less likely to get taken advantage of. In Indianapolis, we've had a couple of predatory turn-key outfits that have caused problems in the entire market. This is eliminated when different team members have different motivations (i.e. general contractor, realtor, inspector, property manager, insurance agent, lender, etc.) and give you their opinion on the deal.

    _______

    To address your specific struggles.

    1. Turn-key homes are ok to start with, build a foundation for your portfolio, and get introduced to a market. You will have no equity and lower ROI. Many turn-key PM's are barebones as the money maker for the outfit is selling turn-key homes. Property Management is a much harder job and much less profitable. The turn-key company stands to make $5,000-$15,000 profit selling you the home with no long-term overhead. The PM stands to make $1,000/year and run a company and several employees out of that money. Where would your focus go when growing your company?

    2. There are a lot of things to consider about rentability.

    Location is foremost importance. Know your tenant demographic. In indianapolis, I don't recommend larger, family style homes in Center township. Crime is higher. Schools suck. There are some great neighborhoods, but I prefer Bungalows or smaller 3 bedroom homes in Center township. When in the exterior 8 townships, I prefer 3 bedroom+ homes with 1.5+ bathrooms at over 1,000 sq ft. This is to attract families who will be using the home for years while their children are going through their education. 

    Pricing. Homes don't rent for 1 of 3 reasons. Over-priced. Poor condition. Poor marketing/response from leasing team. Know your markets price point and find out what the finish/trim of rentals in that price point looks like. I am currently working with a prospect who is looking to purchase a duplex in South Broad Ripple. It is currently rented for under $600/mo but could rent as high as $1,200/mo with the right renovations. We have already research pictures of the $1,200/mo rentals in the market and determined what it will take to increase the rents to that range. If your priced right and in a desirable location, there shouldn't be any problems.

    Your PM's ability lease a home. I hear someone every week tell my that our leasing team is the only one that answered the phone or called. If they don't answer the phone, schedule tours, or pursue prospects to apply... it will not rent. How about pictures and listing descriptions. There can be a huge disparity of quality and if a property doesn't capture and/or enhance the best features of the house, it won't create the necessary interest to draw in a prospective tenant.

    3. Your last point is interesting. The 60 day listings may be the only ones that haven't rented. We see rentals that lease in 3 or 4 days all of the time. You may not find them on Zillow because they are on and off so quickly. You may just be seeing the ones that have problems, like price, condition, leasing team responsiveness. I worry less about specific neighborhoods as I do school systems and crime. Neighborhoods may occasionally draw a higher caliber renter, but there is usually something specific to that neighborhood (low maintenance living, community amenities, secured community, etc.) and it should show up in the rent ranges. A good and active PM should know many of these nuances more than anyone else. Unfortunately, the best data for Days on Market, etc is pulled from the MLS and many homes in Indianapolis are not listed on the MLS anymore. It's more expensive and they rent just fine with Zillow and Rentals.com. The problem is that there is less data from these sources. I'm more interested in retail sales volume. If homes are selling to owner occupants, people want to live there. Desirability drives appreciation of both the sales and retail market. If I'm considering a property, I look for a minimum of 10 "retail" sales in the last 6 months in a .25-.5 mile radius. These will be fully renovated homes sold at the top of the local market rate. If there are homes like that in your area, you should be just fine.

    At the end of the day... you don't need every deal to be a homerun... just set reasonable criteria, and pull the trigger when you meet that criteria. Ensure that your numbers are similar from a variety of sources and use the most conservative numbers you get.

  • Rental Property Investor · Gulf Breeze, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 733 votes
    8y

    @Chris Marsh - spend some time defining your WHY. Why do you want to invest in real estate? No seriously, WHY do you really want to invest? Once you define your why, it will be easier to define your goals and even easier to define your investing criteria. Once you have your investing criteria established, you’ll have less concerns and reservations because now, your criteria supports your why. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Salem, NH · Member since 2016 · 460 posts · 276 votes
    8y

    @Chris Marsh Pulling the trigger is the hardest part. I had 0 experience with real estate, I'm only 25, but you KNOW that real estate investing works. That's why we are all here today on this site. If you KNOW it works then there should be nothing holding you back. You're getting too caught up in your own head which is natural, I did the same thing. My units sat vacant for 2 months while I renovated and marketed them and it was by far the most stressful time in my life. No one said it would be easy....fast forward to today and I collect monthly rents and have a 4-family house that I don't need to pay a dime on since the expenses are all covered.

    My advice to you is to simply pull the trigger. Deals go in a few days like you mentioned. Be prepared and be confident. Pull the trigger!

  • Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 880 votes
    8y

    Welcome to BP @Chris Marsh! You're in the right place! Best of luck to you! 

  • Real Estate Coach · Venice Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    8y

    A lot of folks have given a ton of information so I'll keep mine on the simple side.

    You mentioned a turnkey property....but then that you might have to add value. You definitely don't always have to add value to a property to have a profitable property. It is certainly beneficial to do so, but not everyone is in a position to do that and it's definitely not required. But along the same lines...you mentioned fearing renting it out. If you buy turnkey, there should already be tenants placed in the property.

    So if your mention of turnkey is an option... know that you don't have to add value on those and tenants are already in and paying. Turnkeys are most of what I've bought...I live in CA and invest out-of-state too...and they've been plenty profitable.

  • Novato, CA · Member since 2018 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    8y

    Thank you all for the warm welcome and detailed advice. I'm pumped up and ready to take action!

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