$300,000 in student loan debt

$300,000 in student loan debt

New to Real Estate · CT · Member since 2018 · 11 posts · 6 votes

Hello from Connecticut!

I have a hate-love relationship with Connecticut. I hate the state because it's WICKED expensive to live in. I love this state because it offers over 300+ bird species that migrate through! Yes, I'm an Audobon die-hard, so hello fellow birders and investors.

Here's why I am here at BP: 

My wife just got accepted to University of Bridgeport's Medical School!!!!!! Awesome, yes, she's going to be a Naturopathic Doctor, she's following her dream and is blazing a trail as she does it and inspiring other's too. But what about all this student loan debt though? AGH!!

We MUST have a solid financial plan in place now, because in four years ALL of her student loans will kick in 6-months after she gets her N.D. degree. All of her student loans. We're looking at over $300,000. We've deferred her undergraduate and graduate degree loans too. They're gonna kick in and they're gonna kick hard I'm afraid.

So while she is at school, we'll get a living loan at $15,000 2x's a year. That's $30,000. Her current job paid her take-home last year at $32,500. So we will be $2,500 short.

We will need more CASH for the next few years.

We will need A LOT MORE CASH IN FOUR YEARS!

Four-Year Plan:

Buy a Duplex that accepts FHA loan (no more than $200,000) in the New haven County because it's close to her school. Gives us 21 towns to look at. After all expenses, collect the $200 cash flow and put it in our savings account. $200 a month, multiplied by 12 months = $2,400

$2,400 multiplied by 4 years = $9,600

We can use the $9,600 to buy another duplex once she graduates and makes income again.

The goal is to use duplex income to pay off all of her student loans.

Our deal analysis is just like how BP teaches:

Cash flow has to be >$200 a unit after ALL expenses and Cash on Cash return has to be >12%

Expenses

-Principal & Interest

-Property Taxes

-PMI

-Home Insurance

-Water/Sewer

-Garbage

-Vacancy 5%-12%

-Repairs & Maintenance 5%-10%

-Capital Expenditures 5%-1-%

-Management fees 0% (I will manage all of our properties now & moving forward)

We are 3 weeks in on the Duplex search in New Haven we are learning QUICK that cash flow and a FHA loan do NOT get along. Very few duplexes accept FHA and when they do, they're out of our $200,000 budget cap.

We are hungry though, so we are hunting hard! We will find that perfect duplex, I just hope it falls from grace in time before her school starts in August. :)

Thanks all,

Elizabeth

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Member since 2018 · 161 posts · 152 votes
7y

$300,000 to be a naturopath?  That's crazy.  What kind of income will she generate?  Why not an MD?  She can practice traditional and non-traditional medicine. 

There are much less expensive ways to get a medical degree.  Plus, why would you get a loan for living expenses?  Work more, get a second job.  Whatever it takes to avoid more debt.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    @Elizabeth Susan Ademi. Alright this is my last comment.

    I am in a similar situation with my girlfriend. We met at my undergrad college. She decided that school was to expensive so she transferred to a cheaper one and lived with family, while working to minimize Student debt for undergrad.

    Her field is also in the medical field and requires a master degree. The key differences here is its only 2 years for the masters and her total

    Debt for both degrees will be likely 50k or less, with the potential for near or above 6 figure salary within 5 years, it seems to make a lot more sense. Just find for thought.

  • Edmond, OK · Member since 2012 · 456 posts · 270 votes
    7y

    @Elizabeth Susan Ademi I wont try to convince you that the numbers wont work but will instead actually kill you, others on this thread have already done it very well. What I want to do, is talk to your wife about this passion for Naturopathic Medicine. If I want to be treated for an ailment through 'natural medicine', I dont care if the doctor is a university educated, degree holder or not. I'd care for their reputation instead. Ive been to an amazing Ayurvedic doctor as a child, the line outside his clinic starts building up at 5am in the morning.

    Can she find another way to get educated, without having to fill a university's coffers? Does Federal or State regulation require a Naturopath to have certification at all, does it require a degree at all from an accredited university? If the answer is No, then let her passion for it drive her to seek less expensive resources for her education. If its Ayurveda she is after, she can live in India and get a 4 year degree with a fraction of your projected $240k.

    Please don't let a university make money of your wife's passion, especially when ot may not be a legal requirement to have such a degree.

  • Johnson City, TN · Member since 2017 · 209 posts · 367 votes
    7y

    Maybe Bernie Sanders will be elected in 2020 and he will wipe out all student loan debt and all will be fine!

  • Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    7y

    @Don Gouge while making college free and lowering taxes!!

  • Beloit, WI · Member since 2016 · 100 posts · 40 votes
    7y

    What's your career field? Any possibility for you to earn more than 28,000/year? That seems low. (obviously I know very little, this isn't a dig at you, just that if it's full-time work you might consider changing jobs.) You've not mentioned kids, so you could work crazy hours to add to your income ala Dave Ramsey...take on a few side jobs for the next few years.

    Also, an idea from DR, could she get scholarships from companies that she'd partner with in the future? Or find a company to work for that will pay some of her tuition in exchange for her committing to work there for X number of years in the future? 

    I wouldn't sign up for this if my husband wanted to do this. We'd need to find an alternative that didn't put our financial future at such risk. 

  • Investor · Tallmadge, OH · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 32 votes
    7y

    @Elizabeth Susan Ademi, seems like a lot of “Negative Nancies” telling you to talk your wife out of pursuing her dream. In your situation I’d personally do the same as they advise,.... I’m debt averse.

    However, a $300k loan is (guessing) about $2500/mo (for 20 years). It's NOT difficult to generate that amount of income thru REI and then when the loan payment is offset by rental income you will be grateful.

    Look at C or D class 4 units. The price per unit will drop, (but higher total purchase). YES they are labor intensive (tenant turnover) but will cash flow well. Which is what you NEED! Your cash burn rate is high so you need cash flow.... Not a pretty twinplex with the "Home Depot special" rehab already done, but a "handyman special" in a rougher part of town. Step 2 is the twinplex and then the SFR at Step 3,...Step 5 if you're strategy is to max out your Traditional Loans.

    Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 68 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nate Richards:

    @Elizabeth Susan Ademi, seems like a lot of “Negative Nancies” telling you to talk your wife out of pursuing her dream. In your situation I’d personally do the same as they advise,.... I’m debt averse.

    However, a $300k loan is (guessing) about $2500/mo (for 20 years). It's NOT difficult to generate that amount of income thru REI and then when the loan payment is offset by rental income you will be grateful.


    Look at C or D class 4 units. The price per unit will drop, (but higher total purchase). YES they are labor intensive (tenant turnover) but will cash flow well. Which is what you NEED! Your cash burn rate is high so you need cash flow.... Not a pretty twinplex with the "Home Depot special" rehab already done, but a "handyman special" in a rougher part of town. Step 2 is the twinplex and then the SFR at Step 3,...Step 5 if you're strategy is to max out your Traditional Loans.

    Good luck! 

    You're recommending somebody with 300k in debt, no cash, no future cashflow, and NO experience to purchase class D multifamily??? That sounds like a great recipe for distaster if I've ever seen one!

    OP - don't take this horrible advise. It will ruin you.


  • Peter TverdovBusiness Member
    Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    7y

    This thread is exactly why I am against forgiving student loans. 

    FWIW, there is this thing called WORK you can do while you go to grad school. Spare me the time commitment line because my wife did it while getting a psyD. Her classmates graduated with similar debt to what you're projecting OP and she graduated with 10-15% of that because she worked during school. She worked her *** off while the University suggested she take out loans for living expenses. Don't be a sucker. 

  • Investor · Tallmadge, OH · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 32 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Rude:
    Originally posted by @Nate Richards:

    @Elizabeth Susan Ademi, seems like a lot of “Negative Nancies” telling you to talk your wife out of pursuing her dream. In your situation I’d personally do the same as they advise,.... I’m debt averse.

    However, a $300k loan is (guessing) about $2500/mo (for 20 years). It's NOT difficult to generate that amount of income thru REI and then when the loan payment is offset by rental income you will be grateful.


    Look at C or D class 4 units. The price per unit will drop, (but higher total purchase). YES they are labor intensive (tenant turnover) but will cash flow well. Which is what you NEED! Your cash burn rate is high so you need cash flow.... Not a pretty twinplex with the "Home Depot special" rehab already done, but a "handyman special" in a rougher part of town. Step 2 is the twinplex and then the SFR at Step 3,...Step 5 if you're strategy is to max out your Traditional Loans.

    Good luck! 

    You're recommending somebody with 300k in debt, no cash, no future cashflow, and NO experience to purchase class D multifamily??? That sounds like a great recipe for distaster if I've ever seen one!

    OP - don't take this horrible advise. It will ruin you.


    So, your NEVER SUCCESSFUL strategy is to sit on the sideline and do nothing. Got it! To follow up with that winning piece of advice, don't make any investments since she has "NO experience". Since everybody knows, the best way to gain experience is by doing nothing. Noted!

    Lets be realistic, owning 300K in debt without the means to repay it IS disaster. She's either already in it or very quickly about to be. If your advocating a break-even deal on a flipped duplex is going to solve or in any way positively impact her current or future cash flow issue, it wont. Full Stop.

    The OP needs to cash flow and be proficient at screening and managing multiple units/properties. Anyone with the belief, confidence, and determination to be successful at managing real estate can do this with the assistance of the BP community. With her DTI she'll be qualified to acquire a single property (for the foreseeable future) from which she needs to make a significant dent in her monthly expenditures to enjoy the quality of life she desires. Simply by finding and posting on BP, she has shown the ability to manage adversity and dissect it into manageable pieces in order to overcome it. Same skill set needed to manage a high cash flowing 4 unit.

    Yes the OP will undoubtedly make a few missteps along the way, but thanks to a low cost/low down payment FHA qualified loan, and a 25% reduction in risk (she will be occupying 1 unit) it will make her chances of complete failure minimal. Additionally, with the owner on site many condition issues (garbage and curb appeal) that lead to less savory tenants will be discouraged.

    OP -  regardless of your decision, you have some work ahead of you. Make the smart choice, not the desired choice, and you wont regret the decision. If that's quitting and working 2-3 jobs for the next 30 years like most of these peeps are advocating fine. If it's believing in your ability to succeed and taking some risk that is fine too. The only right answer is the one you are happy with 2-5-10 years down the road.

  • Rental Property Investor · Dayton, OH · Member since 2017 · 48 posts · 68 votes
    7y

    @Nate Richards have you ever been in a class D neighborhood? You are advocating somebody living there and managing those types of tenants with 0 landlording experience. For one, it's not safe, and two - you have to REALLY know what you are doing and have nerves of steel to be able to start realizing high cashflow (on paper) that type of real estate provides.

    You don't have to go far into these forums to hear horror stories of class D real estate, and the most successful people here try their best to steer people away from it. There's a reason for that.

    While I think taking 300k in loans should be avoided at all cost, I don't think investing to band-aid that problem is a viable solution. Sometimes the best course of action is to do nothing, because doing something will only dig yourself deeper into trouble.

  • Investor · Tallmadge, OH · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 32 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nathan Rude:

    @Nate Richards have you ever been in a class D neighborhood? You are advocating somebody living there and managing those types of tenants with 0 landlording experience. For one, it's not safe, and two - you have to REALLY know what you are doing and have nerves of steel to be able to start realizing high cashflow (on paper) that type of real estate provides.

    You don't have to go far into these forums to hear horror stories of class D real estate, and the most successful people here try their best to steer people away from it. There's a reason for that.

    While I think taking 300k in loans should be avoided at all cost, I don't think investing to band-aid that problem is a viable solution. Sometimes the best course of action is to do nothing, because doing something will only dig yourself deeper into trouble.



    I don't recommend things I wouldn't personally do. Yes, been into and lived in both C & D class areas. (1) there is nothing inherently unsafe about living in C or D class. It requires common sense, like everything in life. Regarding personal safety, as a general rule people don't walk around with cash hanging out of their pockets even in good areas. That's just called common sense. Frankly, my vehicles and homes have been burglarized more in A+ and B+ class than they ever were in D class.  (2) Nobody should invest in an area they would not live.  Apparently your not paying attention to these forums on C & D class, as it becomes glaringly obvious what the issues are or are going to be without even finishing half the post. Give the OP a smidgen of credit. As previously stated, proper tenant screening and management (online bill pay) will resolve most if not all the issues you assume "requires nerves of steel" before they even start.

    So to reiterate, your advice is to do nothing and pay $3500/mo plus living expenses on $30k PRETAX income. The math is genius, pure genius!  Again the risk and debt are both mitigated as she will be an occupant. Even at 25% occupancy its not a negative cash flow line item, as she will ALWAYS require housing. A government subsidized tenant in 1 or 2 units = win. 

    If you're in a 12ft hole, is it any different than a 15ft or 24ft hole? Neither can be climbed out of without the aid of tools, and this is no different.

    I'm looking (HARD) for an example where doing nothing and willingly losing $1000/month before you even get out of bed, house, feed, or clothe yourself is the "best course of action". Sadly I can find none.

  • Anthony GaydenPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Omaha, NE · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Nate Richards:

    @Elizabeth Susan Ademi, seems like a lot of “Negative Nancies” telling you to talk your wife out of pursuing her dream. In your situation I’d personally do the same as they advise,.... I’m debt averse.

    However, a $300k loan is (guessing) about $2500/mo (for 20 years). It's NOT difficult to generate that amount of income thru REI and then when the loan payment is offset by rental income you will be grateful.

     LOL, so your advice is for them is to pay $2500 a month for the next 20 years!!!!!

    People pursuing expensive useless degrees is the reason there is so much student loan debt out there. It is a bad decision. $300,000 to make $75,000 a year....lol

  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    7y

    I looked up the doctor degree you are going for and it said average salary 75k to 90k a year.

    That is NOTHING for a doctor. Heck some nurses make more than that. I would not be taking on 300k in debt for a job that pays 75k to 90k a year. You might want to look at a cheaper school if you are set on that particular degree.

    I have doctor clients that buy commercial real estate but they are often surgeons or similar making 600k to over 1 million a year income. It takes them about 8 to 10 years to pay off student loans and their equipment to really start generating some considerable left over cash to invest with monthly regeneration of capital. So typically their mid career to later years a lot of investment happens for retirement. Not an expert just sharing what I have seen from my clients.

    Even anesthesiologist make a ton more for the degree. Not trying to discourage your life passion just really need to find a way to get the degree much cheaper relative to the earning power over time that particular degree provides.

  • Investor · Tallmadge, OH · Member since 2014 · 81 posts · 32 votes
    7y

    @Anthony Gayden, nope. If you reread my post I advise that her spouse not take the loan...

    Unfortunately, people become burdened with debts from their loved one's dreams. Some willingly, others find out later. The student will make the choice. The OP will have to live with the decision.

    MY advice was to use high cash flow RE to offset her looming debt load.

    Others advocated a lifetime inaction. Of trading hours for dollars and still being broke and accruing a ballooning debt that cannot be repaid with their foreseeable income levels.

  • Springfield, VA · Member since 2019 · 74 posts · 77 votes
    7y

    @Elizabeth Susan Ademi, using the BP calculators to determine whether or not a property investment is worth it is a wise move. The process for determining whether or not an investment in education uses similar calculations-- the basic rule I've seen is never take out more in student debt for a degree than the expected 1st year post grad salary.

    The thing I didn't see you mention was your plans for your income during this period.

    If you two can find a way to live on your income this becomes a very different equation. That saves you the housing piece of the student loan debt. It probably requires you to double your income.

    An even better option would be to cash flow med school and live on your income. That would probably require you to at least triple your income.

  • Investor · California, CA · Member since 2016 · 367 posts · 375 votes
    7y

    "That is NOTHING for a doctor"  Because an ND is not a real doctor, it's nonsense based on pseudoscience.   I hope she didn't do it, it's madness and setting you up for a lifetime of stress that her schooling won't be able to overcome. 

    https://www.statnews.com/2016/10/20/naturopath-critic-britt-hermes/comment-page-1/



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