New Investor from Long Island/Greater NYC Area

New Investor from Long Island/Greater NYC Area

Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 5 votes

TL/DR Version:  How do full-time employees in the greater NYC area invest (especially locally)?  Or if not local, how do you go about investing out of the area?

Hello BP!  I am a complete newbie living in Nassau County (Long Island) in New York, and I work in NYC.  I just wanted to introduce myself since I am in the networking and self-education phase of my RE journey.  

I come by way of a strong interest in personal finance.  I started listening to podcasts in that space about 1 to 1.5 years ago because I have always been interested in financial independence (not necessarily retire-early).  I was following the FIRE mantra of maxing out retirement accounts via passive index investing and have been investing additionally in a taxable brokerage account, but heard a podcast interviewing the founders of Roofstock and became intrigued.  I then found my way here to BP and started listening to the BP podcast.  I have also been through a few RE books.  I am convinced that real estate investing with an appropriate amount of leverage provides better risk-adjusted returns than simple equity index investing, so I'm getting ready to get to the next level.

Knowing my temperament and given my professional background and skills, I lean towards buy and hold, performing notes, non-performing notes, and tax liens/deeds.  I have a very good full-time job as an attorney at an alternative investment firm and plan to stay for the long-haul, unless I somehow become an RE-mogul, so wholesaling is definitely not for me (even though I think I could likely excel there).  But, flipping with the right partners might be.  I have access to some capital and a decent base of knowledge/sophistication, but there are just so many places to start and ways to go!  I figure I'll take it slow, but wanted to get my name out there.

Given the high taxes and high property values in and around NYC, I am very curious to see what strategies local investors use.  I can't imagine buy and hold works too well in Long Island or Queens, but I'd love to be proven wrong!  I can easily see flipping working here, but I'm not sure how I would even get started in that strategy (let alone if I could convince my family that it isn't the riskiest strategy ever!)  As of right now, I'm considering one or two houses on Roofstock or through Memphis Invest (pending more diligence on them), depending on available financing, and purchasing a few tax liens.  

I'm looking forward to connecting here on BP and launching this stage of my investing career!

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Real Estate Agent · Allentown, PA · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 181 votes
7y

Max, welcome to the forum! 

I am a buy and hold investor, and run a team of investor agents in the Lehigh Valley / Allentown Pennsylvania. A high percentage of my clients are NY and NJ based investors that come across the river for the lower price points, higher purchase price to rent rations, and more favorable landlord / tenant laws. 

Just from your initial post here, I recommend you take a look at other ways to buy rental real estate other then a turnkey company. A turnkey will generally get you the lowest rate of return, but use the least amount of your time. Judging from the enthusiasm in your initial approach, it seems you might be more suited for investing independently. 

You'd be surprised how easy it is to start an out of state investing business with the right team. Get yourself a solid agent, home inspector, lender, property manager, and contractor, and you won't need a turnkey company. Yes- you will spend a little bit more of your time, but with a good mentor and strong professionals, you will have the ability to capture value add opportunities you otherwise would miss out on. Compared to a turnkey, raising rents, doing some cosmetic renovations, and buying properties below value can easily double or triple your overall rate of return.

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  • Member since 2019 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    7y

    Welcome! As an old-timer here -- been on this forum for at least several hours now ;) -- I just want to say, congrats on your prep work! 

    Seriously, compared to you, I'm even more of a "newbie" to this business, in that you've done a lot more research and study. On the other hand, I've actually bought a rental property (in Georgia) and am in the midst of figuring out just how to get it on the market, rented out, and managed...so I guess maybe I leaped before I looked.

    Are you aware of "flip taxes" and such here in the NY area? I think we're going to have to pay a total of 1.8% (city+state) on our NYC condo sale price, or something like that, though I can't recall the specific name of the tax(es). Then there's the 3 months (!!) of our pricey condo fees. They really don't make it easy for people to flip properties here, which I can definitely understand.

    In our area, it seems early 2017 was the "peak" for condo prices (we have a 35th-floor 2Br in a condop, to be more specific), and prices are expected to slide a bit more throughout the year. But that sort of thing (like the ever-looming recession, even with the recent yield inversion) is proving difficult to predict. Still, right now, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable doing a buy-and-hold here in Manhattan or in the general area.

    Also, on a "more personal" note, your last name is also one of my favorite computing terms from back when I got into the software business:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abnormal_end

    In fact, in some software I've been writing over the past few months, I've been using it as a searchable way to indicate missing features!  :)

  • Property Manager · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 479 posts · 277 votes
    7y

    @Max Abend always great to meet someone else from the same area. I do the reverse commute, love in Brooklyn and work in Jericho.

    I tried flipping on Long Island and really struggled for 8 months give or take without getting a deal done. Seriously looked into tax auctions in hilly and then went over to the multifamily space first as an investor and now working full-time. I would be happy to meet up or jump on a call and see if I can help in anyway.

    Also, we have a meetup that we do in Westbury that should be starting back up again on the 17th, just waiting for the hotel to get me the revised contract and then we're going to blast it out. We tend to pick a topic around multifamily and discuss or present, do a Q&A and then networking. Even though it's MF focused, still a lot of people there to meet that are doing flips, wholesaling, small multi, etc.

    Let me know if you're interested in either and we'll see if we can make it happen.

  • New Rochelle, NY · Member since 2018 · 235 posts · 151 votes
    7y

    Welcome to BP, I'm originally from Manhattan and I'm beginning my investing journey focusing on several markets in upstate New York. But I do have my ear to the ground for any potential deal in my old neighborhood. I wish you the best of luck with your future investments.

  • Scott WolfPro Member
    Lender · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 958 votes
    7y

    @Max Abend welcome! As a fellow New Yorker, I've seen the same problems.  There are tons of options for investing out of state (or the NYC Metropolitan Area).  I purchased a triplex in Hyde Park, NY (not New Hyde Park) that is cash-flowing very nicely right now.  Best of luck, and feel free to shout if you have any questions.

  • New York, NY · Member since 2018 · 215 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    @Joseph A. where upstate are you doing business? I am upstate as well.........

  • Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Chris Grenzig  Thanks for chiming in.  The Westbury meetup sounds like a great idea!  I'd seen it a few months ago by just Googling, but didn't realize it was a BP-member associated thing, so I'll definitely try and check it out.

  • Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Scott Wolf--Triplex in Hyde Park (or Poughkeepsie or something) doesn't sound terrible.  I used to live in a slumlord type of triplex in Danbury, CT while at undergrad and considered looking around there too (not as a slumlord, obviously).

  • Real Estate Broker · Nassau County, NY · Member since 2019 · 22 posts · 11 votes
    7y

    Hey @Max Abend, it seems you've reached a similar conclusion as many others on the Island have.  I'm in nearly identical boat.  I practice in a similar (if not the same) field in NYC, am a huge FIRE fan, and prefer to buy and hold locally though I'm willing to consider a flip under certain circumstances and possibly even out of state.    As I'm a passionate renovator and  RE broker, I like the idea of sourcing (and possibly renovating even if cosmetically) a deal, so I am mainly looking in and around Kings, Queens, Nassau, and Suffolk counties, but occasionally out of state as well.  The investment vehicles you mentioned seems interesting and there are also great books on "long distance real estate investing" (including an often recommended BP one authored by David Greene with that title).  Also, some folks post frequent RE meet-ups here on the BP site, including one tomorrow at Pres 195 at 22 N. Park Ave in Rockville Center, NY (nassau cnty.)

    With so many places to start and ways to go, it can indeed seem (excitedly) overwhelming, but having been an avid reader of many real estate investing books in the past year, it seems one need not know all the exotics (as opposed to the fundamentals) to start. You're on FIRE path. Welcome to BP.

    Frank

  • Developer · NY/NJ/PA · Member since 2018 · 758 posts · 935 votes
    7y

    I'm a flipper in LI & North NJ. Also a long term buy/holder in Lehigh valley, PA. Flipping is still very profitable in my markets. But it is hard for someone who isn't doing it full time. Buy/Holds in LI/NYC doesn't work unless you are ok with low cash flow and bet on appreciation (which is honestly not a bad bet for a full-time employee). 

    DM me and I can tell you what has worked for me. 

  • Investor · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2015 · 149 posts · 80 votes
    7y

    @Max Abend

    Welcome! BRRR is definitely the way to go if you want to buy and hold on the island. I'm doing one in Suffolk county right now. It's the best way to build equity and still be able to cash flow on a single family in my opinion. Definitely need to get one where the taxes are reasonable and you need to have contractors/project managers you trust. Let me know if you want to link up! Good luck

  • Real Estate Agent · Allentown, PA · Member since 2016 · 197 posts · 181 votes
    7y

    Max, welcome to the forum! 

    I am a buy and hold investor, and run a team of investor agents in the Lehigh Valley / Allentown Pennsylvania. A high percentage of my clients are NY and NJ based investors that come across the river for the lower price points, higher purchase price to rent rations, and more favorable landlord / tenant laws. 

    Just from your initial post here, I recommend you take a look at other ways to buy rental real estate other then a turnkey company. A turnkey will generally get you the lowest rate of return, but use the least amount of your time. Judging from the enthusiasm in your initial approach, it seems you might be more suited for investing independently. 

    You'd be surprised how easy it is to start an out of state investing business with the right team. Get yourself a solid agent, home inspector, lender, property manager, and contractor, and you won't need a turnkey company. Yes- you will spend a little bit more of your time, but with a good mentor and strong professionals, you will have the ability to capture value add opportunities you otherwise would miss out on. Compared to a turnkey, raising rents, doing some cosmetic renovations, and buying properties below value can easily double or triple your overall rate of return.

  • New Rochelle, NY · Member since 2018 · 235 posts · 151 votes
    7y

    @Eli Lederman I'm focused on Albany and Binghamton

  • Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Max Abend:

    TL/DR Version:  How do full-time employees in the greater NYC area invest (especially locally)?  Or if not local, how do you go about investing out of the area?

    Hello BP!  I am a complete newbie living in Nassau County (Long Island) in New York, and I work in NYC.  I just wanted to introduce myself since I am in the networking and self-education phase of my RE journey.  

    I come by way of a strong interest in personal finance.  I started listening to podcasts in that space about 1 to 1.5 years ago because I have always been interested in financial independence (not necessarily retire-early).  I was following the FIRE mantra of maxing out retirement accounts via passive index investing and have been investing additionally in a taxable brokerage account, but heard a podcast interviewing the founders of Roofstock and became intrigued.  I then found my way here to BP and started listening to the BP podcast.  I have also been through a few RE books.  I am convinced that real estate investing with an appropriate amount of leverage provides better risk-adjusted returns than simple equity index investing, so I'm getting ready to get to the next level.

    Knowing my temperament and given my professional background and skills, I lean towards buy and hold, performing notes, non-performing notes, and tax liens/deeds.  I have a very good full-time job as an attorney at an alternative investment firm and plan to stay for the long-haul, unless I somehow become an RE-mogul, so wholesaling is definitely not for me (even though I think I could likely excel there).  But, flipping with the right partners might be.  I have access to some capital and a decent base of knowledge/sophistication, but there are just so many places to start and ways to go!  I figure I'll take it slow, but wanted to get my name out there.

    Given the high taxes and high property values in and around NYC, I am very curious to see what strategies local investors use.  I can't imagine buy and hold works too well in Long Island or Queens, but I'd love to be proven wrong!  I can easily see flipping working here, but I'm not sure how I would even get started in that strategy (let alone if I could convince my family that it isn't the riskiest strategy ever!)  As of right now, I'm considering one or two houses on Roofstock or through Memphis Invest (pending more diligence on them), depending on available financing, and purchasing a few tax liens.  

    I'm looking forward to connecting here on BP and launching this stage of my investing career!

     Welcome to the site Max.

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 0 votes
    7y

    @Joseph Akingbade would be interested in connecting.Newish investor here and will be closing on a student rental in Binghamton area

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