Turnkey, indianapolis, marion county, Morris Invests

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Turnkey, indianapolis, marion county, Morris Invests

Brian Ewell
Investor · Herriman, UT · Member since 2015 · 52 posts · 9 votes

I am looking at a company in Indiana, Marion County to buy investment properties. I am concerned about the property management aspect of my investments. The company is Morris Invests and the property management they use is Oceanpointe. 

If someone who has worked with these companies could comment on them send me a PM.

I am investing out of state and have some concerns.

Thanks,

Brian

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
8y

@Jeff Schechter  early on in these morris threads a year or so ago your were touting this company and on BP you said you were providing inventory to them ( wholesaling it no doubt)

have you changed your opinion of them and have you quit selling them wholesale deals. ??

your other partner same thing he was very adamant that he bought like 15 of these and never had a maintenance call in a year.. which I frankly questioned.

So have you guys changed your mind now after you have seen this carnage and abuse of the buying publics trust.. ?????

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  • Larry Fried
    Investor/RE Broker · Eugene, OR · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 968 votes
    9y

    @Brian Ewell  Do a search on BP for Morris Invest.  There is actually been quite a bit discussed about this company.  Also do a Google search for Oceanpointe and you might find surprising data points about that company.

    1Reply
  • Justyn Boudreau
    Clearfield, UT · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    We took a trip out and visited with them. I could share some thoughts on it. Not as bad as some are saying.

    0Reply
  • Todd Burton
    Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes
    9y

    In the state of Indiana you have to be a licensed Real Estate Broker to legally manage properties for any third party. Look up Oceanpointe and Bert Whalen on the Indiana Professional Licensing site and you'll find that neither the company nor Bert are licensed. Site link: https://mylicense.in.gov/everification/Search.aspx

    3Reply
  • Brian Ewell
    OP
    Investor · Herriman, UT · Member since 2015 · 52 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    Thanks

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Flipper · Michigan City, IN · Member since 2016 · 13 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    My boss when I first got into the mortgage business in1982 and a really good friend ever since then is in Indianapolis.

    She has her real estate broker's license, mortgage license (both Indiana and Federal), and is  experienced in rehabs, values, neighborhoods, management, etc. She is 60ish and she knows her stuff.  Lived in Indy area all her life. She will never lie to you (and no, I have never solicited nor received any compensation, monetary or otherwise from her to say this).  I will give you her name and contact info if you would like and she agrees beforehand. I know for a fact that she has worked with out of state investors before. I am sure she knows or can find out with one phone call about the people you are thinking about doing business with. It won't cost much to call her. If I can be of assistance, please do call. Indy is only a 3 hour drive and it's all interstate, so no fuss. I'll even meet you there if you would like. Surely I could think up some kinda trouble (just kidding). I'm pretty straight-laced (anymore). 

    Mark Bauer

    0Reply
  • Jeff Schechter
    Developer · Nashville, TN · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 406 votes
    9y

    We've been working with Oceanpoint (not Clayton) for a while now, and the results have been fantastic.  I know Bert well, and know him to be very straightforward and honest.   PM me for more info.

    0Reply
  • Todd Burton
    Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes
    9y

    Bert Whalen (Oceanpointe) by default is not honest if he is managing properties in the state of Indiana without a real estate license...it is illegal. 

    Pictures of the Oceanpointe managed "Rent Ready" property we just took over management on.

    3Reply
  • Brian Ewell
    OP
    Investor · Herriman, UT · Member since 2015 · 52 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    Was this a Morris Invest property?

    0Reply
  • Todd Burton
    Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes
    9y

    According to the tax record history the seller was Oceanpointe Investments Ltd.

    0Reply
  • Jason Ferguson
    Investor · Concord, CA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    My experience with Morris Invest so far was that they didn't own the property.  Oceanpointe bought the property from what I assume is a wholesaler and resold it to me(double closing - took about a week to complete sale). 

    0Reply
  • Alain Perez-Majul
    Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 393 posts · 116 votes
    9y

    @Todd Burton Wow, that looks awful. I also have not heard good things about Oceanpoint

    0Reply
  • Jason Ferguson
    Investor · Concord, CA · Member since 2016 · 21 posts · 11 votes
    9y

    I stand corrected.  Clayton reached out to me to check in on how things was going.  Also told me that they own the properties they sell and oceanpoint is one of their llcs.  the property purchase did not involve a double closing.

    0Reply
  • Ross Denman
    Real Estate Consultant · Whitestown, IN · Member since 2014 · 547 posts · 933 votes
    9y

    We do not do turn-keys, but we have clients purchase turn-key units and bring them to our management. I have worked with @Todd Burton's properties. and the properties are decent and the tenant placement is pretty good as well. The property management (IPM) has been easy to work with and very organized on my end as well. What I have heard about Oceanpointe is not the best. I am not familiar with Morris Invest as of yet, but I have been closely following the threads regarding the business models. There are a couple of other turn-key players in town that you may want to check in to as well. I like the group that is backed by @Jay Hinrichs... I believe that everything is going through Mainstay Property Group with @Evan Manship. They are pretty new, but I have a client who is working with them right now and I like what I'm seeing. @Mike D'Arrigo with Pinnacle seems to have a good business model. I haven't had any of my clients purchase from them yet, but I do know a little about their PM (PARC) and they are solid as well.

    The biggest thing is... build a good network and double-check everything. There are some unscrupulous players in Indianapolis. I am not one to throw anyone under the bus, but I am constantly cleaning up messes after a unexpecting investor gets screwed by an over-priced, under-rehabbed, badly tenanted, and poorly managed investment property.

    Buyer beware. Have someone outside the group that you are buying from do some due diligence and verify everything. Get some referrals and ask the community here. Most of the badly run companies get ousted eventually here and many of us frequently seen members are established and reputable. Being respected by companies who offer competing services is one of the most highly regarded positions you can be in. 

    0Reply
  • Evan Manship
    Real Estate Consultant · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 218 posts · 166 votes
    9y

    Thanks for the kind words, @Ross Denman. We take great pride in what we have to offer. Would be happy to discuss with you @Brian Ewell. PM me for more info.

    0Reply
  • Mike D'ArrigoPro Member
    Turn key provider · San Jose, CA · Member since 2010 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Ross Denman Thanks for the mention.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 21 votes
    9y

    @Todd Burton On the professional search page, I did see a Oceanpointe and a Steven Rosenbaum.

    https://mylicense.in.gov/everification/Details.asp...

    I'm not familiar with Indiana RE law, does this mitigate your concern on the licensing front? (I am not trying to be snarky, that's a legit question. I could have messed something up on the search and/or misinterpreted the results).

    Thanks,

    Doug

    0Reply
  • Todd Burton
    Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes
    9y

    Hello Doug-

    It appears they have hired a Broker because their license did not previously come up when searching on the Professional Licensing site.  If this is correct then they are operating legally.

    License address for Oceanpointe Investments  is 11715 Fox Rd. Ste. 400, Indianapolis, Indiana 46236

    Google it, it's a Pak Mail Packing and Shipping Store. Not sure how comfortable people should be with the Brokerage being a mailbox. Guess everyone can make their own decision on that.

    1Reply
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    9y

    Why people continue to buy crap properties like in the pictures above boggles the mind.

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    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 21 votes
    9y

    @Todd Burton Thanks for the reply.

    1Reply
  • Todd Burton
    Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes
    9y

    Check out the quote regarding Oceanpointe in this BP thread posted 3/11/17 from Steve Pieper.

    0Reply
  • Anthony Khan
    Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 12 votes
    8y

    Hi Brian and Others,

    My wife and I love the Morris Invest podcasts so figured their companies should have integrity but this was unfortunately not the case here.

    My wife and I have had a very poor experience with Morris Invest and Oceanpointe and were even defrauded of what was happening with our property.  Purchased in Oct 2017 in Indianapolis.  Work was said to complete in Dec 2017 and they sent pictures that angled out things that were not done. In the end about 15% of the work was actually done and poor quality work where 4 months later the paint is already peeling on the outside of the house and roof supports are sagging.  Jan - Mar 2018 I struggled to get any communication from OceanPoint who were the assigned property managers from Morris Invest.  Finally got in touch and they had no knowledge of leasing efforts since nothing was done, so I got the lockbox codes and hired a new property manager.  April 1, 2018 I get pictures from our new property manger to see the house was never completed and just sitting there vacant.  Now we have this headache on our hands (passive investment) and reached out to Morris Invest.

    The Morris Invest employees keep passing the buck and not looking to take responsibility and telling us to follow-up with the construction company THEY hired.  The construction company who they are asking ME to now sort out details with is Bert Whalen, Oceanpoint Investments, Oceanpointe Investments and Property Management.  If you google him you'll see all of the Fraud Cases out there on him and their poor quality work on rehabs.  I'm not sure if he's even licensed at this point or the people they hire to do the work.

    When a company does not provide a phone number be very wary of working with them.  Morris Invest and Ocean Point were email only or had some answering service to take messages which was useless if you are not able to speak with the people you are directly working with your property.

    In the end I'm going to stay away from the TurnKey companies since this seems to be similar trends with that type of business.

    Good luck investors I hope this helps!

    2Reply
  • Brent M.
    Flipper/Rehabber · Medford, OR · Member since 2018 · 46 posts · 20 votes
    8y

    I've seen many BP recommend High Return Real Estate (HRRE) in Indianapolis, it could be worth looking into more.  There are "Good" true turn key providers that do the whole mix.  MI uses his position to get new investors to buy a 3rd party wholesaled house at premium prices with little work done to them.

    Not only are the houses marked up 5-10k above market value, but the rehab costs associated with the fixes are done 2/10 of what they say are going to be done.

    1Reply
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Khan:

    Hi Brian and Others,

    My wife and I love the Morris Invest podcasts so figured their companies should have integrity but this was unfortunately not the case here.

    My wife and I have had a very poor experience with Morris Invest and Oceanpointe and were even defrauded of what was happening with our property.  Purchased in Oct 2017 in Indianapolis.  Work was said to complete in Dec 2017 and they sent pictures that angled out things that were not done. In the end about 15% of the work was actually done and poor quality work where 4 months later the paint is already peeling on the outside of the house and roof supports are sagging.  Jan - Mar 2018 I struggled to get any communication from OceanPoint who were the assigned property managers from Morris Invest.  Finally got in touch and they had no knowledge of leasing efforts since nothing was done, so I got the lockbox codes and hired a new property manager.  April 1, 2018 I get pictures from our new property manger to see the house was never completed and just sitting there vacant.  Now we have this headache on our hands (passive investment) and reached out to Morris Invest.

    The Morris Invest employees keep passing the buck and not looking to take responsibility and telling us to follow-up with the construction company THEY hired.  The construction company who they are asking ME to now sort out details with is Bert Whalen, Oceanpoint Investments, Oceanpointe Investments and Property Management.  If you google him you'll see all of the Fraud Cases out there on him and their poor quality work on rehabs.  I'm not sure if he's even licensed at this point or the people they hire to do the work.

    When a company does not provide a phone number be very wary of working with them.  Morris Invest and Ocean Point were email only or had some answering service to take messages which was useless if you are not able to speak with the people you are directly working with your property.

    In the end I'm going to stay away from the TurnKey companies since this seems to be similar trends with that type of business.

    Good luck investors I hope this helps!

    all of you folks that got burned like this should start your own thread IE have you been burned by Morris..

    this is just so sad and unwarranted yet you still have folks pop on here and ask if they should buy from Morris.. I mean seriously.. and some still defend him  crazy..

    there are state regulators who control these folks its free and on line I would start there.. just grinning and taking it is not fair to others.. these folks need to be forced to make right by their clients who bought in good faith..

    this is some of the most aggregious behavior I have seen since I started funding Turn key in 2001..  

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    1Reply
  • Alex Corral
    Denver, CO · Member since 2017 · 142 posts · 104 votes
    8y
    Man, every time I read one of these posts, I have to thank the people on BiggerPockets! In December, I had a call with James from MI. Sent me a few deals, but luckily I'm a researcher & quickly found the truth on MI. Cancelled all communication with them & never looked back. Really hope the people involved with MI can get out of these terrible deals.
    2Reply
  • Jeff Schechter
    Developer · Nashville, TN · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 406 votes
    8y

    @Brent M. Thanks for the shout out.  No question that some of the TK providers in Indy have given the area a black eye, but it's still a great place to invest.  

    0Reply
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