The 10 Wrong Assumptions made by People purchasing real estate mentorship programs
Don KonipolBusiness Member
Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votesThe 10 Wrong Assumptions made by People purchasing real estate mentorship programs
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Huntsville, AL · Member since 2018 · 577 posts · 864 votes
2yI am going to add an important one as well.
11. That positive reviews of mentorship programs posted on Bigger Pockets by individuals with less than 10 total posts and/or less than 6 months on Bigger Pockets are legit reviews. Nope.
18 Replies
- Investor · Costa Mesa, CA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes2y
Don, I couldn’t agree more.
- Huntsville, AL · Member since 2018 · 577 posts · 864 votes2y
I am going to add an important one as well.
11. That positive reviews of mentorship programs posted on Bigger Pockets by individuals with less than 10 total posts and/or less than 6 months on Bigger Pockets are legit reviews. Nope.
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
this is all just rebranding of MLM. same principals same tug at heart strings same marketing methods etc etc.
- Real Estate Broker · Reno, NV · Member since 2023 · 267 posts · 297 votes2y
12. Thinking that the guru’s are actually going to give you their tools that help them buy deals. For example they will never show you the wide analysis and modeling they are using behind the scenes to identify top properties. They will happily provide a single input calculator that will look very helpful but also virtually useless unless you plug hundreds of properties into it daily.
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes2y
Quote from @Don Konipol:
The 10 Wrong Assumptions made by People purchasing real estate mentorship programs
- That being part of a group of people all chasing the same deals, in the same area, trying to use the same strategies and techniques somehow increases chances for success
- That the mentor teaching the course and providing “mentorship” was actually successful at what he’s teaching
- That all the experienced investors warning about the unrealistic expectations being promoted are somehow just jealous, trolls, or trying to kill someone’s dream
- That 4 years of education, twenty years of experience, and a network of industry contacts built up over a career can be replaced by a 3 day “boot camp” and a 15 minute weekly call to a professional promoter or one of his soldiers reading answers from prepared scripts
- That one does not require knowledge of real estate “principles’, real estate law, or real estate finance in order to succeed at real estate investment
- That the income produced by utilizing the particular strategies being promoted by the guru is going to be able to replace their job income
- That “passive” income from being a residential landlord is really passive
- That one can be a successful real estate investor with little or no capital, credit, or experience
- That wholesaling, flipping, etc. is investing.
- That spending $30,000 or more for dubious information available for free is a good use of funds; especially when you put it on your credit card at 18% interest.
I can apply to this what I specialize in which is note investing and a specific group many learned from in the past and i guess is still alive:
1. 100's of people fighting for 10 assets.
2. Mentor at one point had about $2M in judgments against them for not paying back investors/students they raised money from. But it was not their mismanagement but the investors faults.
3. Yes making $250k in your first year. Of course everyone does that.....
4. Exactly because you are "motivated" and will start doing social media marketing and posting online which will bring you immediate success.
5. No experience needed, just find the deals and money will come.
6. See how to make $250k a year
7. Of course its "mailbox money". True mailbox money is only investing in another company
8. Find the deal and the money will come. Just had someone bid on $100k worth of assets and then did not have the money to buy the deal but wanted us to give another 60 days so they could continue to try and raise money. WTF. Its like going to the dealership to buy a car you cannot afford but pray maybe money will fall from the sky.
To add to this.
1. You can easily raise money on facebook, linkedin, instagram etc. You do not need experience
2. Paying more for an asset than its worth is ok, especially if its owner financed because you have good terms.
3. If I use a slick nickname, it adds to their credibility. True real investors look at that and laugh. This is not the WWE or XFL.
4. I have a podcast, so i am relevant and trustworthy.
7e investments53 Reviews - Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes2y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
The 10 Wrong Assumptions made by People purchasing real estate mentorship programs
- That being part of a group of people all chasing the same deals, in the same area, trying to use the same strategies and techniques somehow increases chances for success
- That the mentor teaching the course and providing “mentorship” was actually successful at what he’s teaching
- That all the experienced investors warning about the unrealistic expectations being promoted are somehow just jealous, trolls, or trying to kill someone’s dream
- That 4 years of education, twenty years of experience, and a network of industry contacts built up over a career can be replaced by a 3 day “boot camp” and a 15 minute weekly call to a professional promoter or one of his soldiers reading answers from prepared scripts
- That one does not require knowledge of real estate “principles’, real estate law, or real estate finance in order to succeed at real estate investment
- That the income produced by utilizing the particular strategies being promoted by the guru is going to be able to replace their job income
- That “passive” income from being a residential landlord is really passive
- That one can be a successful real estate investor with little or no capital, credit, or experience
- That wholesaling, flipping, etc. is investing.
- That spending $30,000 or more for dubious information available for free is a good use of funds; especially when you put it on your credit card at 18% interest.
I can apply to this what I specialize in which is note investing and a specific group many learned from in the past and i guess is still alive:
1. 100's of people fighting for 10 assets.
2. Mentor at one point had about $2M in judgments against them for not paying back investors/students they raised money from. But it was not their mismanagement but the investors faults.
3. Yes making $250k in your first year. Of course everyone does that.....
4. Exactly because you are "motivated" and will start doing social media marketing and posting online which will bring you immediate success.
5. No experience needed, just find the deals and money will come.
6. See how to make $250k a year
7. Of course its "mailbox money". True mailbox money is only investing in another company
8. Find the deal and the money will come. Just had someone bid on $100k worth of assets and then did not have the money to buy the deal but wanted us to give another 60 days so they could continue to try and raise money. WTF. Its like going to the dealership to buy a car you cannot afford but pray maybe money will fall from the sky.
To add to this.
1. You can easily raise money on facebook, linkedin, instagram etc. You do not need experience
2. Paying more for an asset than its worth is ok, especially if its owner financed because you have good terms.
3. If I use a slick nickname, it adds to their credibility. True real investors look at that and laugh. This is not the WWE or XFL.
4. I have a podcast, so i am relevant and trustworthy.
I'd love more info on #2!
- Investor · VA · Member since 2015 · 21k+ posts · 19k+ votes2y
@Steve K.
I see people all the time be like it’s worth $200k but I will pay $225k because I can get it with 0 down and 5% owner financing.
Well that’s well and good but you now just locked yourself into an illiquid asset in a time where the chances of pricing going down are significantly greater than them rising. Even if they rose at a normal 3-5% you still have selling costs if 10% so you are stuck in the property for min 5 years.
Why pay more for something than it’s worth- great video below.
https://youtu.be/0g9ct2dHtCg?si=GaaaZXPnyioGncQ1
7e investments53 Reviews - Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes2y
Also, not because the mentor, IS indeed succesful with their strategies does it mean the students will too.
Again, I am writing a book about this.
Doing the exact same steps outlined in the mentorship doesn't imply that when you do the exact same steps it will work for you too?
You may not be are motivated, hard working, smart, dedicated as the mentor. Not because it worked for him / her will it work for you!
- 2yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Also, not because the mentor, IS indeed succesful with their strategies does it mean the students will too.
Again, I am writing a book about this.
Doing the exact same steps outlined in the mentorship doesn't imply that when you do the exact same steps it will work for you too?
You may not be are motivated, hard working, smart, dedicated as the mentor. Not because it worked for him / her will it work for you!
bottom line, if you have very little capital or credit to transact.. then you have to make that up with intangibles that some folks have majority simply don't.. these include street smarts , Salesmanship , gift of gab , you know the kind that can sell ice to Eskimo's. If a person does not have these innate skills its a tough deal to get anything going money wont buy you success.
I have spent my last 50 years in the RE sales / lending/ building game and that is the common denominator I see in folks that succeed.. out going street smart and ability to sell.. will make up for lack of capital and credit. if you have capital and credit then you dont need these other abilities nearly as much to be successful. - Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes2yI would add analytical and “deal making” ability to that mix. otherwise, the person in question is just a commissioned salesperson, and can earn a good - great living like a lot of really good salespersons. But it’s the analytical ability that allows then to identify the really good or great opportunities, and deal making ability that allows them to obtain a share of the profits in excess of what most salespersons will obtain.
Quote from @Jay Hinrichs:
Quote from @Jerryll Noorden:
Also, not because the mentor, IS indeed succesful with their strategies does it mean the students will too.
Again, I am writing a book about this.
Doing the exact same steps outlined in the mentorship doesn't imply that when you do the exact same steps it will work for you too?
You may not be are motivated, hard working, smart, dedicated as the mentor. Not because it worked for him / her will it work for you!
bottom line, if you have very little capital or credit to transact.. then you have to make that up with intangibles that some folks have majority simply don't.. these include street smarts , Salesmanship , gift of gab , you know the kind that can sell ice to Eskimo's. If a person does not have these innate skills its a tough deal to get anything going money wont buy you success.
I have spent my last 50 years in the RE sales / lending/ building game and that is the common denominator I see in folks that succeed.. out going street smart and ability to sell.. will make up for lack of capital and credit. if you have capital and credit then you dont need these other abilities nearly as much to be successful.
‘’As an example I’ve seen many times, a wholesaler stumbles across a deal he believes has huge potential profit. He’ll state with pride and insistence that he want a $10k fee. If the deal really has the $200k profit he believes a “deal maker”, even without cash to invest, will come away with $50k - 75K (maybe not upfront, but certainly when the deal “pays out”.
Another component often overlooked is risk tolerance. While most “salesman” I know are big spenders, they are surprisingly unwilling to take a risk on investing. They seem to have no problem gambling, but putting money on their own investing ability seems to give them all kinds of self doubts. Now obviously this is a mass generalization based on my own empirical experience. But we do know that to earn above market returns we need to take on risks that are greater. The trick is diversification so one bad deal doesn’t set you back too much, and finding those mismatches where expected return is greater than risk incurred, in other words positive risk related returns. - Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes2y
Great post Don.
#2.1 Even if the mentor/guru had a successful track record executing on their investment thesis, that does not mean the thesis will work going forward as market conditions change and/or adapt to the thesis or it ports over to all markets. See LTCM as a perfect example.
#2.1 ties to #5 in a chicken or egg kind of way. If you don't understand first principles of RE, you can never truly evaluate the content of the course. If you had a solid grounding in first principles the odds that you need a $30k course plunge faster than Clayton Morris' deal volume after he took that sight seeing trip to Portugal.
- Wholesaler · Arnold, MO · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 183 votes2y
Ok! Let's say an aspiring real estate investor has $100,000 or more in an IRA account. He has read up on and watched YouTube videos about real estate investing but is too smart to pay $10,000 to a guru. How does he get the experience/expertise to start a real estate investing career and if you say a mentor is necessary, what should this rookie expect from the mentor and what should it cost him?
- Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes2y
Quote from @Vince Mayer:
Ok! Let's say an aspiring real estate investor has $100,000 or more in an IRA account. He has read up on and watched YouTube videos about real estate investing but is too smart to pay $10,000 to a guru. How does he get the experience/expertise to start a real estate investing career and if you say a mentor is necessary, what should this rookie expect from the mentor and what should it cost him?
IMO, every potential real estate investor should familiarize themselves with a basic knowledge of
1. real estate principles
2. real estate law
3. real estate finance
The easiest way I know of to accomplish this at least to obtain a pretty good fountain is to take the real estate licensing course. There are also courses offered by various colleges, community colleges, real estate associations, etc. What the new real estate person DOES NOT want is the mentorships or courses focused on a single strategy. The newbie needs to gain an understanding of the basics to be able to evaluate any particular strategy and if that strategy is right for them, at that time, in their geographical area, and in the current economic climate.
- Member since 2022 · 12 posts · 4 votes2y
Dont forget the pretty blondes on all the home improvement shows, selling $30k courses without batting an eye. Its just crazy
- 2yMark WilliamsPro MemberReal Estate Broker · Huntington Beach, CA · Member since 2010 · 63 posts · 35 votes
It's crucial for anyone considering a real estate mentorship program to approach it with a discerning mindset. While there are certainly some questionable programs out there, not all mentorships fall into these negative assumptions. Here are some important points to consider:
1. **Diverse Strategies**: Successful real estate investors understand that the industry is vast and diverse. A good mentorship program will expose you to a variety of strategies, allowing you to choose what aligns best with your goals and market conditions.
2. **Verified Success**: Look for mentors who can demonstrate their own success through their track record, not just in words but in actual achievements. Research their background and ask for references.
3. **Healthy Skepticism**: Experienced investors who caution against unrealistic expectations are often looking out for your best interests. It's crucial to balance ambition with a realistic understanding of what it takes to succeed.
4. **Continuous Learning**: Real estate education should be ongoing. A mentorship program should supplement your existing knowledge and experience, not replace it. Be cautious of programs promising quick fixes.
5. **Foundational Knowledge**: Understanding the principles, laws, and finances of real estate is essential for making informed decisions. A solid foundation is key to long-term success.
6. **Income Expectations**: It's unrealistic to expect immediate replacement of job income from real estate investments. Success usually takes time, careful planning, and consistent effort.
7. **Landlord Responsibilities**: Owning rental properties requires active management and is not entirely passive. However, with proper systems in place, it can provide a stream of income and wealth-building opportunities.
8. **Capital and Experience**: While some strategies require less capital or experience, it's essential to recognize that both can significantly enhance your chances of success and mitigate risks.
9. **Investment vs. Wholesaling**: Wholesaling and flipping are indeed strategies within real estate, but they are not traditional long-term investments. They have their place but come with their own sets of challenges.
10. **Financial Responsibility**: Be cautious about high-priced mentorship programs. It's essential to evaluate whether the value you receive justifies the cost, and consider more affordable and reputable alternatives.
Ultimately, success in real estate investment comes from a combination of education, experience, patience, and adaptability. When considering a mentorship program, research thoroughly, ask questions, and make informed decisions that align with your goals and financial capacity. Remember that mentorship should complement your journey, not define it.
- Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2023 · 2 posts · 1 vote2y
Quote from @Chris Seveney:
Quote from @Don Konipol:
The 10 Wrong Assumptions made by People purchasing real estate mentorship programs
- That being part of a group of people all chasing the same deals, in the same area, trying to use the same strategies and techniques somehow increases chances for success
- That the mentor teaching the course and providing “mentorship” was actually successful at what he’s teaching
- That all the experienced investors warning about the unrealistic expectations being promoted are somehow just jealous, trolls, or trying to kill someone’s dream
- That 4 years of education, twenty years of experience, and a network of industry contacts built up over a career can be replaced by a 3 day “boot camp” and a 15 minute weekly call to a professional promoter or one of his soldiers reading answers from prepared scripts
- That one does not require knowledge of real estate “principles’, real estate law, or real estate finance in order to succeed at real estate investment
- That the income produced by utilizing the particular strategies being promoted by the guru is going to be able to replace their job income
- That “passive” income from being a residential landlord is really passive
- That one can be a successful real estate investor with little or no capital, credit, or experience
- That wholesaling, flipping, etc. is investing.
- That spending $30,000 or more for dubious information available for free is a good use of funds; especially when you put it on your credit card at 18% interest.
I can apply to this what I specialize in which is note investing and a specific group many learned from in the past and i guess is still alive:
1. 100's of people fighting for 10 assets.
2. Mentor at one point had about $2M in judgments against them for not paying back investors/students they raised money from. But it was not their mismanagement but the investors faults.
3. Yes making $250k in your first year. Of course everyone does that.....
4. Exactly because you are "motivated" and will start doing social media marketing and posting online which will bring you immediate success.
5. No experience needed, just find the deals and money will come.
6. See how to make $250k a year
7. Of course its "mailbox money". True mailbox money is only investing in another company
8. Find the deal and the money will come. Just had someone bid on $100k worth of assets and then did not have the money to buy the deal but wanted us to give another 60 days so they could continue to try and raise money. WTF. Its like going to the dealership to buy a car you cannot afford but pray maybe money will fall from the sky.
To add to this.
1. You can easily raise money on facebook, linkedin, instagram etc. You do not need experience
2. Paying more for an asset than its worth is ok, especially if its owner financed because you have good terms.
3. If I use a slick nickname, it adds to their credibility. True real investors look at that and laugh. This is not the WWE or XFL.
4. I have a podcast, so i am relevant and trustworthy.
- Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2023 · 2 posts · 1 vote2y
Hello,
saw this post and was curious what you thought of Jamil Damji astroflipping course. He is a contributor of Bigger Pockets, he wrote a book on wholesaling. And for x amount of dollars offers coaching etc. Would you say it's worth the investment?
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