This is probably not a 100% real estate question but more of psychology question i guess. So here is the deal, one of my very good friend is going through a rough marriage and lately he is been involved in an affair with another women for about 6 months now. We talk about all kind of stuff, we golf together and we very good friendship. Recently, i found this property for about half a million dollars that i want to buy and i am trying to avoid bank loan at any cost (some personal planning). I spoke with this friend about the deal and he is also interested to fund 50% of it and be a 50% partner.
To me personally, marriage is a most important relation in the world and i feel if he can cheat on his wife, why would be hesitate cheating on me in business? Am i being too careful? By the way, he is a great guy, very successful in his business (not real estate) and is a good father of a 2 year old.
Personally I think you are right to have reservations. Trust your gut.
welcome to the site.
I try to stay out of business partners personal affairs.
I would have to stay away from that deal. Unfortunately, I would also have to distance myself from that friendship. One piece of advice I have heard in REI is to surround yourself with like minded individuals. This is a matter of being around people who have the same mindset and goals as you in terms of investing. The general idea is that the people you surround yourself with will to one degree or another "rub off on you", and do you really want that kind of individual "rubbing off" on you?
Personally, I would encourage the guy to seek some counseling or guidance for his marriage. I hate to see people divorce, but if the marriage is beyond saving then that is a better option than a loveless marriage with that kind of situation going on. Does this guy really want to raise his child in that kind of environment? I can't quite understand your statement that he is a "good father" when he is setting that kind of example for his child.
You have a great point about if he cheats on his wife how can you trust he won't cheat on you. Honestly, you can't trust him. You can probably trust him so long as the deal is solid and profitable for the both of you, but once there is a problem I'm sure he will be looking for greener pastures.
I'm not condoning his behavior, but invariably everyone has SOMETHING in their background that you don't agree with, and it doesn't necessarily make them a bad person or untrustworthy. Is his wife aware of his cheating or are they separated?
It's nothing personal just business. Just make sure you have the right contract written up between you two so that you are on the safe in.
Based on our own statements, it sounds like you two are not morally in tune so IMO you have to wonder if you can have a sustainable partnership (does not mean you can't do this deal). We all have struggles, we all sin; doesn't mean we are rotten to the core. Partnering with someone is like marrying that person. To you marriage is the most important thing, to him not so much. With that being the case, you may want to listen closely to your morals if that is important to you in a business partner. Dealing with the moral issues of a personal friend and sticking with them is different IMO. Usually you don't have half a million dollars at stake :)
@Mohit Madaan People have their own stories and backgrounds, so I wouldn't consider your potential partner a bad person for his relationship choices, however if you are asking the question here, you don't trust him. Don't do deals with folks you don't trust. It can be tough enough to feel confident and make things work well during challenging times when you're working with people you do trust, don't start off on the wrong foot. There are other investors out there.
@Mohit Madaan It's a question of integrity, and his is lacking. He is dishonoring his wife and son by cheating on their family and taking his time from them to give to someone else. What makes you think he would be different in his business dealings? He's obviously someone that puts his needs above those of the team, is capable of hiding things etc., therefore; I think you'd be foolish to enter into business with him. I'd simply tell him you'd like to do business with him, and to call you when he gets his personal life in order, that may be a catalyst for him.
No way I would do it with a guy who cheats on his wife.
But it is your judgement.
I am so glad that you guys see the dilemma i am stuck in as we don't both share same moral mindset.
Even without getting into the questions of if he is trustworthy or not, think of where his head will be when the split finally happens. You will most likely be on the bottom of his priorities list. He will be in court fighting over his assets and children, and you will be left picking up all the slack on the business. If you are expecting to share a substantial amount of work with him involving this deal don't be surprised when its all your problem.
You should step up and be a man and tell his wife if you have proof.
He sure isn't treating his most important partner right. I don't think I would want to anywhere around that situation.
I have been asked to partner with several people and family members over the years.
Only one person did I say yes to. And that is because I know his integrity is everything to him. He lacked may of the things you may look for in a partner (handyman skills, cash, free time) but I knew his character made up for it. It has been five years and has worked out great.
My concern is not that he is cheating, but that you know that he is cheating. He is either a) sloppy or b) has a big mouth...both of which (along with the philandering) are not personality traits I would look for in a potential partner.
My advice is to find someone else to work with and, for the love of god, DO NOT get involved with his personal affairs.
Marriages go through tough times, many don't last. Sometimes infidelity is the cause, sometime the symptom. If the guy were a serial adulterer, then yes, I'd judge it as a severe character flaw. Here, there's just not enough info to judge, IMO.
But I think the point that @John Cimino made is spot on. Besides the issue of distraction, this is a really bad time to get financially involved with this person, they could easily be headed to divorce court and all that that entails.
Jean Bolger, 33 Zen Lane | http://www.solidrealestateadvice.com
@James Wise i would stay out of personal affairs too but its one of those things, that tells you about the partner as a person. Just like, i am not you wouldn't partner with some one who is a drug dealer and human trafficker.
@Scott Nipp I feel the same way and somewhat convinced that i am going to stay away from the deal, we will see. The term "good father" was used because the child and his wife has no idea about his "affair". So as far as his parenting goes, he is doing everything a parent should do.
The fact that you understand, my motivation to do the deal is because its good deal and profitable for both of us is only reason i am even talking about it, and the doubt i have is because if **** hits the fan, is he gonna be fair with me when he can't be honest with his wife?
@Account Closed The wife isn't aware of cheating and i agree, sometimes people can be in a bad marriage but very ethical in other relations such as work, business.
@Daren H. i really think as far as this deal, it will go fine as its very straight forward. The moral issue and all this comes in place just incase something goes unexpected, how will be act then. You know the situations when you really want all parties to be fair?
@Bradley Bogdan i trust him Brad and i don't consider him bad person either. The only thing is, what if? you know what if, that one situation where you are at a mercy of ethics and not contracts.
@Karen Margrave Point noted, but i can't throw that friendship away just like that. Why? I don't know. Its a bad spot to be in.
Anyways, thanks for the responses guys. I will update the thread if and when there is progress in the deal. Very excited generally about the business these days.
My question is not about his morals, that is up to you. My first thought is I want a stable partner, and he is in a place where he might be soon involved in a divorce situation and how is that going to screw things up.
I have partnered with someone playing around but then I knew the spouse was fooling around too. Neither knew about the other and their marriage continued on without skipping a beat. I made sure the wife was on board with the investment and committed legally and when she suggested that we "seal" the deal, I just told her I haven't even kissed another girl since my wife and I's first date, except for the bride at friends wedding, It has been 54 years now and I wish I could have 54 more. No I was not a saint, I had what I call my years of shame before I met my future wife, and with over half of marriages going down the tubes you will have people you deal with, with secrets you know nothing about entering your life all the time. I just want my investments legally separate from their potential instability.
Originally posted by @Joe Gore:
You should step up and be a man and tell his wife if you have proof.
At least you are consistent with giving bad advice.
I agree with @Jean Bolger that we don't know enough to conclude it is a severe character flaw. Sometimes good people make bad decisions.
Personally, if I were in this situation I would encourage my friend to get counseling.
I think they should be on the Jerry Springer show or go see Dr Phil.
Originally posted by @Mohit Madaan :
I really think as far as this deal, it will go fine as its very straight forward. The moral issue and all this comes in place just incase something goes unexpected, how will be act then. You know the situations when you really want all parties to be fair?
In general, I want all parties to be fair, focused, ethical, and moral when it deals with my money, health, and my family. I have some friends and associates who have their own issues (again, we all do). I am still cool with them, but I don't involve my money, health, and family. Everyone is going through something at some point and time (just the way life goes). If you can accept the struggles of any potential partner and the risks that come with it, I say go for it. Good Luck!
Deep inside your instinct is guiding you and I think that really is the point. The fact that you don't think you should do the deal is probably a culmination of a lot of little things, not the least being the infidelity. Real estate is especially prone to gray areas and is an industry that can tempt your integrity quite easily. Best to partner with someone with a strong character.
There's a scene in the movie Act of Valor, based on a story of a team of Navy Seals, that I think is worth mentioning. The lieutenant in charge of the team put together a get together before the team deploys and during that get together, he addresses his team. He told his team to get everything that is off the field straight. That if there's problems with the family or the finances, those problems have to be dealt with and that they'd help each other as a team. Lt's reasoning was that things that are not squared away at home might affect a team member's actions in the field.
I don't know you and your friend but that type stress will bring something to the table. I wouldn't know how that will affect executing the deal. There's also the fact that if during the deal divorce comes up, might affect your friend emotionally and financially which might just blow the deal.
My 2c - If you really want to do the deal, finance it yourself or find a different partner. I'm sure there's plenty money to go around. Then help your friend out with his personal life. But this is a RE forum so I'll limit my comments on RE related decision making.
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