Answer to those calling you vulture stealing houses from Grandma!

Answer to those calling you vulture stealing houses from Grandma!

Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes

Do you hesitate to answer when someone asks you what you do for a living?  

Do you hang your head when the naysayers label your industry as a bunch of vultures preying on the innocent, trying to steal houses from little old grannies?

The media has painted a negative picture of our business because of the discounts we receive and the profits we make... And yes, because of the actions of a few selfish individuals that do steal and cheat and make a bad name for the rest of us.

What most people don't take into account is the fact that we "vultures" are a necessary part of the real estate industry.  

Who but us investors will buy the blighted property and restore it to livable condition?

If not for us investors, many, if not most of the distressed properties would end up in foreclosure or worse.

More families would end up in bankruptcy, more vacancies would remain vacancies.  More people would barely tread water above financial dismay with no solution in site.

Our business model as real estate investors is to be professional problem solvers. That is why we are not vultures trying to rob homeowners of their equity. 

As an example, years ago, I was at a code enforcement hearing waiting for my turn to discuss a property I had bought with liens that I was there to negotiate.  (Btw, if I could ever give you a tip that has made me literally hundreds of thousands of dollars, I have never gone to a code hearing that I didn't walk away with at least one deal.  I call it my personal home shopping network)

This lady was sitting before the board listening to the officer reading down the list of violations along with the amounts owed, and his recommendation to the board.

"This, this and this is wrong with the property," said the officer.

"DO WHAT??!!!" was her response.

"The lien amount is 70k," continued the officer.

"DO WHAT??!!" She hollered.

"We recommend the city foreclose on the balance."

"DO WHAT??!!" She kept on escalating.  

She looked like she was going to jump over her podium, climb over the desk and eat the officer whole.

Of course the board went with the officers recommendation and gave her a 30 day notice that they were going to foreclose on these violations should they not be resolved between now and then.

Now I had seen the pictures of the property and the violations that they had shown on the projection screen, and the property wasn't that bad.  It was a solid block home and the only things needed were a roof leak, a broken window, a shed in the back that needed either repaired or removed, and a back porch that either needed repaired or removed.

The problem was the property was her mothers who had passed away and she didn't have the money to probate the property, let alone do the repairs.  So she didn't actually own the property.

I stepped out of the room and followed her in the foyer, where I saw her break down in tears.  The strong combative facade was down, she had been in shock and now reality was sinking in.  She was going to lose the house.

I introduced myself to her and let her know that I felt I could help her.  I asked her a simple question, "forget the liens and the judgements, forget all the other stuff, what do you need for yourself?"

"Oh, I don't need much."  She replied.  "My son is living in the house, if I could get him enough for a down payment for a rent to own, I think that would be fine."

"How much would you want for a down payment?" I asked.

"Maybe $5000?" She asked.

"I think I can do that."  "Let's meet up tomorrow and we'll sign contract,"  I said.

That night I didn't sleep well.  I knew that with this specific code enforcement was that after fixing the property, the rule of thumb was that they would reduce the lien to 10%.  I knew that I would be able to get the liens down to about 7k.  I was starting to feel kind of guilty.

By the next morning I determined that I needed to have a heart to heart with her.

"Listen," I told her.  "I need you to understand that I intend to fix the property and then negotiate the liens and will get them reduced."  "I'm going to make a truck load of money and if you want you probably could do it too."

"No sir, you're able to do something that I can't do," she replied.  "I'm done with this hous." "If you do what you've promised to do, you can make whatever you make."

"Ok," I replied.  "Let's sign this contract."

Long story short, we were able to repair all the violations.  Because Florida is a homestead state, we were able to do a "mini probate," which took less than 30 days.  We did what we promised and we still made a tremendous profit.

Now, consider the alternative.  Had I nor another investor not gone to her, she would have definitely lost the house.  The city would have bulldozed the place and there would have been a cost the city would have incurred and would not collect since it was against a dead person that had no other assets.

We fixed it, saved the city additional costs and brought the house to a place that is now a good property and tax base for them.  We gave the owner exactly what she asked for and saved her costs and the embarrassment, along with helping her son find a place that worked perfectly for him.

We as investors have a currency, problem solving. We exchange our currency of problem solving in exchange for equity. That's a fair deal!!

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Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
10y

@David Dey its one thing to solve these complicated situations.. its another to go into contract on MLS listed properties and then try to wholesale them or resell them or whatever. I am seeing that in Texas I won't buy one of those out of principal.

wholesalers are not professionals  they have no association licensing and other than state laws regulating real estate transactions no oversight whatsoever.. so its a perfect storm for all sorts of people to jump in.... And it is all about self policing.. some folks are great straight up etc... others are financial sociopaths and will beg borrow cheat steal not matter what to get a deal.. we have all seen it... and its in every industry and walk of life.

I have been an active courthouse steps foreclosure buyer going on 40 years now... that's not all that popular either.

Also was a fairly large log supplier here in the northwest along with developing Real Estate into subdivisions

So at a function when someone ask's what I did it was well I am a developer I clearcut forests and I buy foreclosures and kick people out of their homes.. and just to add to all of that I have a fairly good size Hard money lending company charging double or more bank rates.. but I am a really good guy  really I am... LOL.. you can imagine how a lib would take all of that    LOL  And at one time I had all that going on...

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  • Real Estate/Insurance Agent · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2015 · 101 posts · 32 votes
    10y

    That in itself is a good story and a great example of how an investor can help a troubled homeowner. Many, two I have dealt with in the last few weeks, I would clearly agree with the vulture status. Of course, many professions have both good and bad. What matters is if you can hold your head up with a clear conscience, look your kids in the face with no guilt, and make sure the karma bus won't be making a stop at your door step.  

    Dawn

  • Raynham, MA · Member since 2013 · 103 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    I'm not sure why just yet but this is one of my favorite reads on site so far...

  • Lender · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Great post Dave!  Although they I am a big believer in the notion that other people's perception of me, is in fact, my reality (at least in their eyes), I also know who I am, and what my moral compass direction is.  Like you, I always look for how I can be of service to my clients and solve their immediate needs.  The beauty of what all of us "vultures" do, is that those of us that focus on the needs of others, likely earn more money than if we only focused on our own needs.  Not proud of what I do?  Hang my head?  Not on your life!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @David Dey its one thing to solve these complicated situations.. its another to go into contract on MLS listed properties and then try to wholesale them or resell them or whatever. I am seeing that in Texas I won't buy one of those out of principal.

    wholesalers are not professionals  they have no association licensing and other than state laws regulating real estate transactions no oversight whatsoever.. so its a perfect storm for all sorts of people to jump in.... And it is all about self policing.. some folks are great straight up etc... others are financial sociopaths and will beg borrow cheat steal not matter what to get a deal.. we have all seen it... and its in every industry and walk of life.

    I have been an active courthouse steps foreclosure buyer going on 40 years now... that's not all that popular either.

    Also was a fairly large log supplier here in the northwest along with developing Real Estate into subdivisions

    So at a function when someone ask's what I did it was well I am a developer I clearcut forests and I buy foreclosures and kick people out of their homes.. and just to add to all of that I have a fairly good size Hard money lending company charging double or more bank rates.. but I am a really good guy  really I am... LOL.. you can imagine how a lib would take all of that    LOL  And at one time I had all that going on...

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @David Dey  the other thing that gives wholesaling a bad rap  is what is taught by guru's and what is talked about and recommended on BP.

    1.  tie up a property and tell the owner you have to run it by your partner.. ( when in fact you have no partner your just trying to get it out to your buyers list)

    2. puffing up your ability to buy.. putting on your yellow letter that your a cash buyer when in fact you borrowed money on your credit cards to send out said letters and in fact have no ability to buy said property unless you can flip it or assign it.

    3. in ordinate due diligence times were the seller things your really doing due diligence but your really just buying time to try to get a buyer to buy it.

    4. Not care in the world if your deal does not come together and you walk.. and have no compassion for the poor seller you have just abused.

    on and on and on.. that's one take on wholesalers and how they are perceived by folks in the industry that know better.. uneducated sellers are just that they are un aware and can be mislead and mistreated.

  • Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y

    @Jay Hinrichs Sooo, my rainforest killing, kicking grammy out of her house, loan shark you!! Lol.  The only thing I think you could add to your resume to make it any more a liberal's nightmare is professional Seal Clubber!!

    (Now to clarify before I get lynched, I am not talking about those cute little puppy faced flippered fish mammal mutants. (all I can say is God has some creativity going on,.. or alot of spare parts) I'm talking about that artist that was so popular in the 90's. Anyone who can sing that good, make that much money, and marry a supermodel, needs to be clubbed a few time just to even out the universe. (so you see, it's not just a hobby it's a calling)

    As far as our dear little wholesalers, (whom I liken to those soft lil fish puppies)

    Let us not be too harsh to them lest we throw the baby out with the bath water.

    Many decent investors out here started as wholesalers themselves.  I currently include wholesaling as a majority of my current business model.

    I think there is a right way and a wrong way to do everything... Including wholesaling.

    No I do not condone, outright deception of the homeowner.  But I think you can still have just as much a problem solving mentality as a wholesaler as a straight investor.

    I currently take the hairy deal, put it together along with the solutions, wrap it into a nice neat package and sell it to another investor for a nice profit, yet leaving most of the meat on the table for the end investor.  

    I think the right approach for a beginning wholesaler is to align himself/herself with a strong core of buyers, get their criteria, than go searching for what it is that they're looking for, that way they actually do have an exit in mind.  Either that or align themselves with a good mentor that will back them along with their training.  (Our country was founded on the master/apprentice model and I think it still works best.)

    P.S.  Not meaning a guru for mentor but an actual feet on the ground mentor that actually is in their market getting their hands dirty.

    P.S.S.  Nothing against gurus that have great info!! (I personally started with a Carlton Sheets course and still use its contract from time to time)  I just think the most effective approach to mentorship is one on one.

    Hope this helps

  • Raynham, MA · Member since 2013 · 103 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    @David Dey I have enjoyed our chats immensely oh "wise and witty one". It is mindsets and philosophies like yours that bridge gaps, move mountains, and aid in the survival of itty bitty fishes attempting to brave predatory open ocean waters in the REI ecosystem. I thank you in advance for the help that I know you will be to me.

    I'm sorry we didn't get a chance to converse more yesterday. I am back in the hospital due to my "back" my surgery site is retaining fluid and has gotten infected. I have been at Beth Israel Deaconess since yesterday morning. Thanx for not wanting to throw me out with the bath water me being a new born REI babe in the woods. Just start talking to @Jay Hinrichs about flying he'll turn into a teddy bear softy in no time flat. Hah I have reached out to him and in spite of his lack of interest in PM communications he did give me the time of day. Don't be hard on him I think his mindset is a little different than ours and is more geared towards momma eagles kickin baby birdies out of nests and a survival of the fittest eat or be eaten mentality. He may seem gruff on the exterior but a little birdy told me that he's really a freakin panda bear softy when you pluck the right strings. But that's just my gut talking from a knee jerk reaction and interpenetration. I have yet to have the privilege of really getting to know him.

    I look forward to spirited debates and discussions with investors that share both your schools of thought. 

    I know I will learn from you both...

  • Investor · Lakeland, FL · Member since 2015 · 344 posts · 606 votes
    10y

    @Dan Dwyer and @Jay Hinrichs

    I certainly hope that Jay didn't take any of what I said. (Except about the Seal clubbing, I need as much help as I can in that department... Again not the puppy fish but the 90's Rock star)  I was actually joking with him about his statement at the end of his first post about his introduction when meeting liberals. 

    I actually agree with a lot of what he said as I in no way endorse the misleading or deception of homeowners and sellers.  

    I think your mentality whether you are the end buyer or wholesaler needs to be service minded.  You are a professional problem solver and these people need your help.  

    Do right and you will do well!!

  • Raynham, MA · Member since 2013 · 103 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    @David Rey those were thoughts from my head, feelings from my heart, and words from my mouth it's nice to meet another like minded soul and kindred spirit...

  • San Antonio, TX · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Most definitely! The word "investor" has a bad connotation especially with the general public. I don't use it in general conversation. As far as they know, I'm just a regular person looking for homes to buy! 

  • Raynham, MA · Member since 2013 · 103 posts · 20 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Rachel H.:

    Most definitely! The word "investor" has a bad connotation especially with the general public. I don't use it in general conversation. As far as they know, I'm just a regular person looking for homes to buy! 

     @Rachel H I agree with what you said entirely however my goal is to help change the average Joe's perception of investors one family at a time.

  • Bulawayo, Zimbabwe · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 253 votes
    10y

    Great story there, about investors as problem solvers

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Rachel H.  Wholesalers are not investors  they are in sales and marketing in a very loose and unregulated way... and for sure there are many that are VERY poor actors. which gives the industry some negative light.

    You can't take what is usually a highly regulated and controlled industry and launch the uneducated mass's at it .. and expect anything less than the reputation that exists and is deserved in many instances.  But calling a Wholesaler an investor  ( unless of course they actually buy and hold or BUY anything and fix and flip or just buy their inventory) is not the correct term in my mind. If a wholesaler is just flipping contracts for doing back to backs they are just marketing folks is all again in my mind.

  • Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 119 posts · 78 votes
    10y
    Not sure why Jay and other have piled on "libs" as making money is a universal thing not dem or repub. Seems like an unneeded poke to an otherwise bi-partisan forum.
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Ellie Hanson  I never said ANYTHING political the OP did... not sure if my neighbors or folks I meet at parties were libs republicans democrats  atheists Christian Jews on and on.

    I have friends and business associates that are all those persuasions.

    However if you have been in Oregon any length of time you know that their are all of the above... Huge liberal population.. state votes Dem every year.. But when you get out into the rural areas its 80% conservative.. the voting is controlled by the Portland metro area and ultra liberal college town of Eugene. !! those are facts.

    Most of the time I was doing the logging I lived in the Napa valley so those I talked to at social events lived there not ORegon  just fyi  !!  Developer is a very bad name in most circles as well.

    but anyway I am a live and let live person I could care less what anyone is... does etc within the basic laws of the land... I do take offense to wholesalers though that take advantage of people by using misdirection ,  and basically lying to them to get a deal done.. that I don't like.

  • Investor · Hillsboro, OR · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 35 votes
    10y

    Some of us Oregon Libs. Love Real Estate =) Now if I could just get rich, dohhh

  • Investor · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 119 posts · 78 votes
    10y
    I've lived in Portland more than 25 years. I'm a card carrying liberal tree hugging zoo hater. And I am a proud developer who remodels and tears down / builds as needed. Gotta have all your tools in your toolbox.
  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Ellie Hanson  how do you handle the kids that chain themselves to the tree's you need to cut down on your 50/100 lot to build a new house.. and to make matters even stranger the tree's many times are not natives  :)

    And whats up with the Zoo I missed that one are they mad at the new Elephant exhibit.

    And Oregon would not be here if it were not for the timber industry ... such short memories

    Techtronix  Intel  Nike are all companies that came in the 80's with Tech maybe a little earlier .. for the preceeding 150 years it was timber.   Are you anti logging and Timber harvesting.. And if we did not log and harvest timber were do you think the wood would come from to do your build jobs   LOL... it is pretty funny really.. All the tree huggers all use wood products every day of their life unless of course they have a Bidet but some how I don't think those folks may even know what one is    :)

  • Investor · Hillsboro, OR · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 35 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Ellie Hanson  how do you handle the kids that chain themselves to the tree's you need to cut down on your 50/100 lot to build a new house.. and to make matters even stranger the tree's many times are not natives  :)

    And whats up with the Zoo I missed that one are they mad at the new Elephant exhibit.

    And Oregon would not be here if it were not for the timber industry ... such short memories

    Techtronix  Intel  Nike are all companies that came in the 80's with Tech maybe a little earlier .. for the preceeding 150 years it was timber.   Are you anti logging and Timber harvesting.. And if we did not log and harvest timber were do you think the wood would come from to do your build jobs   LOL... it is pretty funny really.. All the tree huggers all use wood products every day of their life unless of course they have a Bidet but some how I don't think those folks may even know what one is    :)

    OHH heavens where to start. I think what your missing is there chaining themselves to tree's to try and save the charm etc. of the neighborhood they live in. It's not about if there native it's the age of the trees and what they bring to the area. Most of the best and nicest areas in portland all share old tree lined streets. There just trying to keep there area nice and desirable, sometimes misguided but that's at the heart of most of it. I imagine you'd like your area to stay nice just like they do. As to the timber the history of timer in Oregon it's a shame really. Most of all the beautiful old growth forests are gone, and with them being replanted with all one type tree won't be back. You've lost something for future generations that won't return. These tree huggers, it's not that there against using wood products. they just want it managed in a sustainable way. There's really no need to cut down what's left of the old nice forests. Just because in the past it was acceptable to cut it all down not caring about a thing except profit doesn't meen it should be moving forward. The windshield of your car is bigger then the rear view mirror for a reason, we need to learn from the mistakes of the past and not keep making them. As always, just my 2 cents

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @David C.  David I work in the timber industry they STOPPED cutting old growth 2 decades ago...

    And of course you have mixed messages in the metro area. the cities are bound by metro politics were they want density at all costs.. so saving one tree does not help with density.

    I think Metro has done a nice job balancing it. they bought mt. tabor..and turned it into a park ( that's fine) If you have been up on Cooper mtn. there is that great park up there.  And I actually used to own that property I sold it to metro  AFTER I CLEAR CUT IT 18 years ago but you would look at it today and think its great.

    ANd by decimating the Timber industry in rural Oregon with the spotted owl Rural Oregon has been in a depression ever since.. 30% unemployment in the rural areas is common.. I know its like the steel industry out east .. But timber is renewable of course.

    and the other great thing is Feds bought most of the last OLD Growth REdwoods in N. CA which is great.. If you don't want to cut it buy it... plenty of timber to go around

    Just look at any photo's from the mid to late 1800's and you will see clear cuts everywhere.

    Look at photos of northern CA around Grass valley Nevada city during the gold rush you will see stump farms everywhere you go there today and you would think it was never logged.

    End of the day though we have to get our dimensional lumber somewhere.. and its better than ravaging the rain forests.

  • Investor · Hillsboro, OR · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 35 votes
    10y

    I must agree with part of what your saying compared to the clearcut photo's it's much better. But I think we should be looking at the photo's before it was all cut down if were wanting to have a point of reference as to what it was like. The baseline shouldn't be after everything was decimated but before. The ongoing struggle between individual property rights and public good.  And sadly the rain forests are being ravaged and will be regardless of our actions in little ole Oregon. It's not an either or proposition.

  • Grass Valley, CA · Member since 2015 · 21 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    I was brought here because of my keyword on Grass Valley. ;)

    But, @David Dey WOW! The story in your first post is amazing. You earned that money because you understood all the moving pieces well enough to organize them. Heart warming solution for the lady.

  • Investor · Hillsboro, OR · Member since 2014 · 77 posts · 35 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Dustin Graham:

    I was brought here because of my keyword on Grass Valley. ;)

    But, @David Dey WOW! The story in your first post is amazing. You earned that money because you understood all the moving pieces well enough to organize them. Heart warming solution for the lady.

    Ok that's funny!!!

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