ADU & DADU in Seattle

[Darren Chang]

Hi everyone, has anyone recently taken advantage of the new ADU/DADU regulation in Seattle? Any reflection/thoughts on it? Thanks in advance for any feedback.

[Vic V.]

What is the new regulation you're referring to?

[Brian Hughes]

Presumably the rule that most SFR lots can now accomodate 2 ADU's in addition to primary home (either 1 DADU and one ADU or 2 ADUs) and owner occupancy is no longer required. In other words, SF zoning is really triplex zoning.

Of course this is tempered by extremely anti-landlord policies put out by city council over the last 5-7 years.

[Michael Haas]

Yes we’ve taken advantage of it, primarily by buying and legalizing existing un-permitted units so far, but we’re planning to start New DADU builds in the next year.  

[Brian Hughes]

@Michael Haas out of curiosity what does it usually take to legalize an existing unit (lets say it was basically well constructed basement ADU, but built a decade or more ago without any permits/etc

I don't have any such situation so just a hypothetical question,   though I do have some extra storerooms at one of my properties that would be best converted to a studio unit ; but when I investigated this with the local municipality they basically wanted me to upgrade the entire building to current code standards in order to be able to finish out that space as a 5th unit.   I would have been fine with doing some reasonable upgrades in the space to be redone and some minimal-impact work elsewhere but I was not about to gut the entire building to upgrade all the insulation and firewalls and add a sprinkler system which is what they wanted.   (building built 1980)

[Darren Chang]

Originally posted by @Brian Hughes:

Presumably the rule that most SFR lots can now accomodate 2 ADU's in addition to primary home (either 1 DADU and one ADU or 2 ADUs) and owner occupancy is no longer required. In other words, SF zoning is really triplex zoning.

Of course this is tempered by extremely anti-landlord policies put out by city council over the last 5-7 years.

And also offset by the high construction cost, I guess?

[Darren Chang]

@Vic V. please refer to my original post at the Seattle forum https://www.biggerpockets.com/forums/770/topics/836918-adu-and-dadu-in-seattle-and-bellevue?highlight_post=4922741&page=1#p4922741

[Sherief Elbassuoni]

Yes, I got ADU for one of my units. Two floors house with one kitchen in each floor.

[Darren Chang]

@Sherief Elbassuoni Hi Sherief, did you rent out the ADU? Was the house bought like that or did you add the ADU? How was the experience?

[Max Versteppen]

A DADU is limited to 1,000 square feet of gross floor area in single-family zones, including RSL, and 650 square feet in a lowrise zone. The DADU must meet all the Seattle residential, building, mechanical, electrical, and energy code requirements that apply to single-family dwellings.

[Michael Haas]

@Brian Hughes my understanding is that the rules for adding a unit to small multifamily are completely different from SF zoning ADU and DADU permitting. For true ADU's (which can be rented separately without owner occupancy) the big changes tend to be electrical (it needs its own sub-panel), plumbing (it needs it's own hot water heater), egress (5.7 sq ft opening required in all bedrooms), HVAC (needs independantly controlled heat). Most permitted Mother-In-Laws (and almost all non-permitted units) share power, hot water tanks, and HVAC with the main house.

[Bjorn Ahlblad]

These will become more wanted wherever they are permitted. No one wants to get on an elevator (with other people) to get to their 15th floor apartment. They will move to garden style apartments in the suburbs or ADU's in the city.

[Brian Hughes]

Thanks @Michael Haas.    I have a path toward all those things.   I'm pretty sure my building,   which is currently 4 units, was constructed with the intent/expectation that this storage area which is about 350sf and is already drywalled and painted could either be converted to another unit,  or used to expand the unit above it via an interior staircase.  The meter base has room for a 6th meter already,  adding the plumbing and breaker panel would be relatively easy (crawlspace access under the entire lower floor where this space and the meter base/laundry area are) and adding egress windows is also possible.  The area is entirely above grade on 3 sides and about 3/4 below grade on the back wall,  so windows would get installed along the front.   The building already has 7 parking spaces.

I suspect the reason it wasn't built out as a unit originally was probably so that the property could be financed with conventional fanny/freddy loan.   but then it was built in 1980 I have no idea what the rules were like then.   The other reason may be that zoning did not allow for the additional unit when built.

When I looked into finishing this area in about 2016, (this is city of Burien, not seattle btw)  the sticking points were that they wanted the entire building retrofitted for current insulation standards and firewall ratings and addition of sprinkler system.   This would have required gutting the entire building even though the newly finished area would barely exceed 10% of the floor area of the overall building. 

That said, now that we have been in 'housing crisis' mode for a few more years, and more construction and architect types are available due to economic slowdown, it might be worth revisiting. If somebody who is familiar with working with permitting were to interface with the city maybe they would know how to get things done. Like perhaps the zoning issue (the lot was actually downzoned after the building was constructed, it isn't even technically legal for number of units present right now) could be gotten around if the new unit was classified as an ADU.

Thanks
 

[David Edwards]

@Darren Chang, @Brian Hughes, @Michael Haas

The ADU/DADU rules in the city have been expanded generally speaking in the ways that @Max Versteppen pointed out but the city also has a number of things that make getting to those SF more difficult. One of the interesting things to keep in mind, especially in RSL zones or others where there is a density limit, is that the ADU/DADU's don't count against the density of the site meaning you have the opportunity to get even more density on sites ie. 4 townhomes each with an ADU can really be 8 townhomes. The way that I personally think this will be used to increase density and have a positive impact on housing affordability will be by separating the parcel into condos and selling the DADU's and ADU's individually. This also provides another exit strategy for an investor.

I have worked on a couple of these projects through feasibility and design and I'd be happy to talk to anyone about a project or strategy they were considering. 

Best,

[David Edwards]

@Bjorn Ahlblad Access to natural light, ventilation, and views of the outdoors are huge for any living space. Garden units are generally speaking cheaper / sf for both sales and rentals as an indication of the reduced demand for this subpar type of unity type. The answer to housing issues in urban areas isn't the suburbs or these low density, semi underground basement unit solutions. DADU's and ADU's are fine solutions to help provide access to housing in residential areas and to chip away at restrictive zoning that is currently in place but its only effective if we are creating quality housing. Just because its possible to live in someones basement doesn't mean most people would choose to if they could afford something else.

You are right though that there is demand for smaller, more affordable housing wherever it pops up in this region.  

[Brian Hughes]

@David Edwards   I am aware of the RSL rules in seattle regarding ADUs - in fact my other investment property - a triplex in seattle - is in an RSL upzoned area and on a large enough lot (8700sf) to accomodate 4 RSL structures so your hypothetical example is pretty much exactly my situation.   The existing triplex is also situated forward far enough on the lot to allow subdivision of at least one maybe 2 RSL lots while preserving that structure,  which is in good condition owing to the last 14 years of my elbow grease.

I would be more interested in pursuing some options around this myself except for my lack of enthusiasm for increasing my exposure to seattle rental regulations and high cost of construction/permitting.

[David Edwards]

@Brian Hughes, 

It does sound like you have your head around the zoning, I feel most people overlook the density restrictions in that somewhat new zone so I guess good looking out.

If you already have the land and its not in bad shape as far as grade, soils, utility access, etc. then you might be able to make something work as a for sale product using the condo method I described earlier. Retail, you will pay somewhere in the $250-300+ /sf range but if you partner with a builder you may be able to compress that number down to 150-200/sf. There's also strategies to help whittle that number down even further via construction techniques that are not as labor or material intensive. Being creative and efficient in how the structures are built can have the numbers looking pretty good depending on your approach.

The climate of the city as far as its tenant protections are concerned aren't likely to change and the cost of construction is equally unlikely to dip too much. That said, if you have a property that is cash-flowing and working for you there may be no incentive to do anything. You could however, look into splitting up the lot and selling off the rest of the development potential. Attaching feasibility documents or even having the entitlements done would make the dirt even more valuable. 

[Brian Hughes]

Yeah,   I've heard that before too.   What I may do in a bid to try and protect the triplex from redevelopment would be sell off the excess land or do the developer partnership approach,  but sell off instead of keeping the finished properties,  and once that process is complete,  sell the triplex for its value as a small investment property.

In any case,  its good to have options I suppose.  Thanks for your thoughts.

[Darren Chang]

@David Edwards Hi David, it seems Seattle's AADU/DADU regulations have not been adopted by Bellevue. By reading the Bellevue zoning, it seems AADU can be rent out but the primary residence must be owner-occupied (or vice versa). The Accessory Structure detached cannot be a dwelling, and the Guest Cottage can be a dwelling but only unpaid, cannot be used for short-term or long-term rental. Is my reading correct? 

[David Edwards]

@Darren Chang I just skimmed the code and It looks like there is an owner occupancy requirement for accessory dwelling units (as you mentioned you could in theory live in either). I'm not immediately seeing where the code states that these uses are not able to be rented out but that may be buried in the code somewhere or specific to a certain zone. They do mention that you are not allowed to rent out the owner occupied portion of the site ever. 

[Darren Chang]

@David Edwards I read three sections in combination and drew the conclusion that a detached structure in lot less than 20,000sf can only be used for storage, greenhouse purpose, and in lot larger than 20,000sf they can only be used as Guest Cottage for non-paying occupants. The three sections are: 

20.20.125 Accessory structures in residential districts - Detached

20.20.250 Cottage, guest

20.50.022 G definitions

[David Edwards]

@Darren Chang yeah it looks like they basically don't allow DADU's currently. The guest cottage feels like they are thinking of those as detached mother in law suite's. Maybe worth calling the city to confirm but it seems pretty straightforward in the code. As I mentioned, I just skimmed things earlier (gotta protect my time) but section 20.20.120.c spells things out for DADU's pretty clearly. I think the thing I'd be trying to work in a project like this is how they define attached or detached and if there is any room for creativity to get you something like a DADU while still complying. 

Without the ability to have (2) ADU's on site just allowing them attached probably seemed like the best way to act like they were interested in providing a pathway to more density without making it accessible to that many people.

[Eva Croasdale]

If anyone is looking to build a DADU in Seattle and wants to get a bid, I have a great contractor in mind.  They are very familiar with the City of Seattle's approved plans and can take the project from start to finish. They have been focusing exclusively on building DADUs for private clients since the new regulations (prior to that I was their Listing Agent on all their new construction projects).  Ping me a message if you'd like their contact info.

[Prasad Gupta]

Quote from @Eva Croasdale:

If anyone is looking to build a DADU in Seattle and wants to get a bid, I have a great contractor in mind.  They are very familiar with the City of Seattle's approved plans and can take the project from start to finish. They have been focusing exclusively on building DADUs for private clients since the new regulations (prior to that I was their Listing Agent on all their new construction projects).  Ping me a message if you'd like their contact info.

Please share me the contact of your contractor