Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
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If you hold a tax lien certificate in FL, you have no more rights to the property than any other person if it goes to auction. Up until the funds are actually tendered from an auction sale, the owner of the property can redeem by paying the amounts owed. This can literally be minutes before a successful bidder arrives to pay the winning auction bid. I considered tax lien investing locally but saw the returns bid down so low I felt it wasn't worth tying up the money. If you hold a tax lien in a state where YOU can get the property that sounds like it has a lot more profit potential. Tax lien certificates are not an equity position in ownership, but rather simply a lien against the property for taxes only.
Specialist · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2011 · 698 posts · 629 votes
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@Kim Gerred Based on your previous post about Arizona and Florida tax liens I'll assume you meant to ask if AZ and Florida are the same for mature tax liens.
They are different. Arizoma has a three year redemption period and then the lien holder can foreclose to get the property. Florida puts the property up for auction when the lienholder "forecloses".
AZ also has a 30 day Notice of Foreclosure that is sent to the parcel owner and lien holders before the foreclosure is actually started. That is to keep foreclosures out of the courts if the owner just needs a "reminder' to pay 3 years of taxes. Once the 30 days is done, then the foreclosure starts. A nice benefit in AZ is that if the owner pays the taxes after the 30 day notice but before the foreclosure reaches the deadline, then the owner has to pay all the attorney fees for the lien holder who started the foreclosure.
I suggest a Google search of "Arizona Tax Lien Statutes" will bring you to the page with the official laws related to Arizona.
Lender · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2010 · 26 posts · 0 votes
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Thank you Jerry K. Yes, my question was supposed to be "Can someone tell me if the process is the same for Florida on mature tax liens as it is for Arizona? Thank you!". Thankfully, I know a tiny bit about AZ mature tax liens but Jerry, you have just told me something I didn't not know. I sent 30 day notices to the owner of the property and to the Maricopa county treasurer. If I am understanding you correctly I have to send them to the other lien holders too?
If I am understanding you correctly I have to send them to the other lien holders too?
No, just the owner of the property. Make sure you send it to the addresses on file from both the assessor and treasurer. You also have to attempt to send it to the physical property even if you know it is vacant.
@Kim Gerred Based on your previous post about Arizona and Florida tax liens I'll assume you meant to ask if AZ and Florida are the same for mature tax liens.
They are different. Arizoma has a three year redemption period and then the lien holder can foreclose to get the property. Florida puts the property up for auction when the lienholder "forecloses".
AZ also has a 30 day Notice of Foreclosure that is sent to the parcel owner and lien holders before the foreclosure is actually started. That is to keep foreclosures out of the courts if the owner just needs a "reminder' to pay 3 years of taxes. Once the 30 days is done, then the foreclosure starts. A nice benefit in AZ is that if the owner pays the taxes after the 30 day notice but before the foreclosure reaches the deadline, then the owner has to pay all the attorney fees for the lien holder who started the foreclosure.
I suggest a Google search of "Arizona Tax Lien Statutes" will bring you to the page with the official laws related to Arizona.
Always keep in mind that it is not always collectible. Having a judgement and getting paid are completely different issues.
Specialist · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2011 · 698 posts · 629 votes
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@Kim Gerred My apologies. @Michael Oldehoff is correct, you only have to notify the owners for the 30 day notice.
Michael - A question to help clarify for me; are you referring to getting the owner to pay the attorney fees when you wrote "Always keep in mind that it is not always collectible. Having a judgement and getting paid are completely different issues." Or am I misinterpreting what you were referring to?
I have had only one AZ lien owner redeem after the foreclosure was opened (foreclosure opened after the 30 day notice past), and my attorney told me when the owner redeemed he had to pay the back taxes, interest and my attorney fees. My attorney was paid by the county (Pinal) for my fees, so the owner could not redeem unless he paid those attorney fees to the county itself. There was no judgement involved to get him to pay the fees. Maybe it's different county by county? Or am I way off to what you were referring?
@Kim Gerred My apologies. @Michael Oldehoff is correct, you only have to notify the owners for the 30 day notice.
Michael - A question to help clarify for me; are you referring to getting the owner to pay the attorney fees when you wrote "Always keep in mind that it is not always collectible. Having a judgement and getting paid are completely different issues." Or am I misinterpreting what you were referring to?
I have had only one AZ lien owner redeem after the foreclosure was opened (foreclosure opened after the 30 day notice past), and my attorney told me when the owner redeemed he had to pay the back taxes, interest and my attorney fees. My attorney was paid by the county (Pinal) for my fees, so the owner could not redeem unless he paid those attorney fees to the county itself. There was no judgement involved to get him to pay the fees. Maybe it's different county by county? Or am I way off to what you were referring?
That is not a procedure I'm familiar with. In Maricopa County the attorney fees have to be signed off on by a judge or commissioner. Thus they are entered as judgments against the redeeming party.
As far as the county is concerned they just want the amount owed on the lien. The attorney fees are a separate civil matter completely. I'd guess that the county is really stretching their authority by requiring the payment of the attorney fees in order to redeem.
I'm pretty sure the redeeming party is liable for the attorney fees and costs but is not obligated to pay them in order to redeem. In fact, the fees can't even be set until they redeem. It is like they are obligated to pay attorney fees before redeeming, but they haven't redeemed anything yet so how can they be liable? They aren't a redeeming party at that point. That doesn't make sense to me at all.
Lender · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2010 · 26 posts · 0 votes
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Hi everyone! Just got a call from a lady in SO FL. who is definitely interested in buying the property that is attached to her house back yard on which I own the tax lien for and it is mature. Any suggestions? I have not done one thing so far not even a 30 day notice. Thanks!
Specialist · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2011 · 698 posts · 629 votes
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@Michael Oldehoff I'm with you on it not making sense, but that is how went down with my Pinal county lien foreclosure. The attorney (Manoil) called me to say he got a check in the mail for his fees from the county. So he looked it up and the owner had redeemed. Maybe in Pinal the attorney files his fee with the foreclosure filing? Not sure, but I was not billed for any of the foreclosure fee and the attorney had his check from the county for his fees.
@Michael Oldehoff I'm with you on it not making sense, but that is how went down with my Pinal county lien foreclosure. The attorney (Manoil) called me to say he got a check in the mail for his fees from the county. So he looked it up and the owner had redeemed. Maybe in Pinal the attorney files his fee with the foreclosure filing? Not sure, but I was not billed for any of the foreclosure fee and the attorney had his check from the county for his fees.
Strange. I'll have to ask Mark about this (He represents us sometimes as well). It just doesn't seem to make any sense to me.
Specialist · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2011 · 698 posts · 629 votes
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@Kim Gerred Florida is different than AZ. I haven't done a Florida lien foreclosure yet - and again all it does is cause the county to auction the parcel - but I don't believe Florida has the 30 day notice the way Arizona does. @Wayne Brooks do you know if there is a 30 day notice in Florida before a tax lien foreclosure?
You have no ownership in the parcel. You can try to buy the parcel from the current owner and pay off any and all liens. Then you could sell the parcel once you owned it. But you holding a tax lien on the parcel at this point doesn't give you any leverage in selling the parcel to the neighbor.
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
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@Jerry K. As @Kim Gerredshould know, in FL you make application to the tax collector. The clerk of court handles then holes process of notices, and yes everyone-owner and lien holders-get a minimum 30 day notice prior to the public auction. The certificate holder has absolutely no control or advantage with the property.
Lender · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2010 · 26 posts · 0 votes
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HI everyone! @Wayne Brook , Do I send the 30 day notice or does the county? When you said "You make application to the tax collector" Can this be done online as I am in CA.? Thanks
Real Estate Professional · Shalimar, FL · Member since 2009 · 117 posts · 6 votes
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Kim, If you only own the Tax Lien Certificate in FL, you do not own the property. You have to file a Tax Deed Foreclosure application with the county, and they will then hold an auction for the Tax Deed. IF no one bids on it, then you (if you're the one who filed the TDF application) will get the property. Otherwise, it'll go to the highest bidder.
PM me if you need more information. I am in FL, and own several Tax Lien Certificates, and have filed a TDF application in the past.
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
11y
If you hold a tax lien certificate in FL, you have no more rights to the property than any other person if it goes to auction. Up until the funds are actually tendered from an auction sale, the owner of the property can redeem by paying the amounts owed. This can literally be minutes before a successful bidder arrives to pay the winning auction bid. I considered tax lien investing locally but saw the returns bid down so low I felt it wasn't worth tying up the money. If you hold a tax lien in a state where YOU can get the property that sounds like it has a lot more profit potential. Tax lien certificates are not an equity position in ownership, but rather simply a lien against the property for taxes only.
Lender · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2010 · 26 posts · 0 votes
11y
Lynn Henley Could you please look at this list and tell me which one it is that I need? Thank you~ https://www.sarasotataxcollector.com/downloads/property-tax
Lender · Palm Springs, CA · Member since 2010 · 26 posts · 0 votes
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Thanks Wayne. This one is in Sarasota county although I do have some in Orange County, Alachua County, and Escambia County too. Thank you all for your help~