Should I take a hardship withdrawal from my 401(k) for a down payment?

57 Replies

Dear BP Community,

I am actively looking to purchase both units of a duplex, live in one unit and lease one unit (house hack). I found a property that I'm considering making an offer on, and I'm analyzing different ways to pay for the down payment and closing costs. The property is listed at $180k and I'll be applying for an FHA loan (@ 3.5% down + closing costs = $10k).

I have the money in my bank savings account now to make the down payment, or I could use my traditional 401k to fund the purchase. I’m not allowed to take out a loan on my 401k per my plan’s rules, but I can take a hardship withdrawal to cover closing costs and a down payment. Once I take this hardship withdrawal, it is my understanding I cannot ever take another one for any reason (is this true?). The penalty for a hardship withdrawal is 10%. I also have to pay taxes on the funds, although I’ll defer the payment of all these taxes until tax season next year. I can use the money in my bank savings to help me purchase my next investment property in December (I won’t live there), which I anticipate will require a 20% down payment. Also, I won’t be eligible to use a hardship withdrawal to fund my December purchase.

My questions are: (1) Have you ever taken a hardship withdrawal from your 401k to fund a down payment and closing costs? (2) Do you foresee any problems using the 401k hardship withdrawal to purchase both units of a duplex? (3) Is there anything you think is significant that I haven't considered on this deal? (4) Will the use of my 401k funds inhibit me from holding the entire property in an LLC?

One thing I didn’t mention above- I won’t be eligible to contribute to my 401k plan for 6 months after my hardship withdrawal, but I’ve stopped contributing to it anyhow after reading a half dozen Rich Dad Advisor Series books.

Thanks in advance

@Edward Stephens

I believe many 401K plans allow for general purpose loans as well, in addition to a loan to purchase your primary home.  The payback period is usually different for a primary home purchase vs. a general purpose loan.  Also, these loans come without a penalty clause.  It would be worth your time (and money) to double check your plan details.   

Stephen

@Stephen D.

Many plans do not allow you to take out loans, which the OP mentioned, as the cost to add that feature is not worth it to smaller businesses. 

@Edward Stephens

I can tell you from my experience in dealing with clients with various financial positions that a 401(k) early withdrawal is generally not a good idea. It's simply too costly, and if you are a first time investor, you need to focus on building your wealth, not cutting it. 

I typically ask someone in this situation what their income vs. spending looks like and whether or not they adhere to a budget. It's generally better to tighten the reigns on the spending and delay your real estate investing goals while you build up various savings and reserves. 

The problem is that your 401(k) withdrawal is going to be very expensive. You are going to pay your marginal tax on the money, the 10% penalty, and you will have foregone earnings. Easily enough, the withdrawal could cost you over 40%. That's insane.

I'd recommend trying to find another source of money to utilize or figuring out how to earn and save more. Don't touch the 401(k). That should be an absolute last resort option if life knocks you down and generally should not be used to purchase a rental. 

Originally posted by @Stephen D. :

@Edward Stephens

I believe many 401K plans allow for general purpose loans as well, in addition to a loan to purchase your primary home.  The payback period is usually different for a primary home purchase vs. a general purpose loan.  Also, these loans come without a penalty clause.  It would be worth your time (and money) to double check your plan details.   

Stephen

 Thanks, Stephen.  I called my plan provider and also talked to the benefits department at my company.  Unfortunately, I don't have an option to take out a loan.  Thanks for the advice though.

Originally posted by @Brandon Hall :

@Stephen D.

Many plans do not allow you to take out loans, which the OP mentioned, as the cost to add that feature is not worth it to smaller businesses. 

@Edward Stephens

I can tell you from my experience in dealing with clients with various financial positions that a 401(k) early withdrawal is generally not a good idea. It's simply too costly, and if you are a first time investor, you need to focus on building your wealth, not cutting it. 

I typically ask someone in this situation what their income vs. spending looks like and whether or not they adhere to a budget. It's generally better to tighten the reigns on the spending and delay your real estate investing goals while you build up various savings and reserves. 

The problem is that your 401(k) withdrawal is going to be very expensive. You are going to pay your marginal tax on the money, the 10% penalty, and you will have foregone earnings. Easily enough, the withdrawal could cost you over 40%. That's insane.

I'd recommend trying to find another source of money to utilize or figuring out how to earn and save more. Don't touch the 401(k). That should be an absolute last resort option if life knocks you down and generally should not be used to purchase a rental. 

 Thanks for the feedback, Brandon.  I appreciate it sincerely, and hope you and others will continue this educational conversation with me.  

I understand that a withdrawal could cost me over 40%.  I agree that is insane.  But I also recognize that the cost is high because taxes are high.  I pay about 40% of my earnings each paycheck to various government administrations and social programs.  This pre-tax 401(k) money will either be hit with a 40% loss now, or it will be hit by (what I assume will be) an even bigger loss in the future as taxes to rise to feed, clothe, house, and bomb the rest of the world.

I also don't believe it is fair to say I am missing out on market gains.  I'm simply betting on the US real estate market instead of the US stock/bond market.  I'm also betting on my ability to manage my investment better than some faceless trader on Wall Street.  

@Edward Stephens

Your foregone earnings are absolutely going to be a cost of the withdrawal. You may be able to earn more in real estate, but don't assume that foregone earnings won't play a role.

Let me demonstrate with examples. I'm going to assume you are in the 25% tax bracket, so right off the bat this withdrawal costs you 35% (25% + 10% penalty). I'm also going to assume you are withdrawing $10,000 (you can apply your actual number to the examples below).

Example 1 -  You withdraw $10,000 in 2013. Your immediate cost of the withdrawal is $3,500 leaving you with $6,500. Additionally, since the S&P 500 returned 32% in 2013, your withdrawal costs you another $3,200 in foregone earnings ($10,000*1.32). Your cash remaining after the withdrawal is $6,500 and the total cost of the withdrawal is $6,700. How long will it take you to simply break even (a 103% return)? Answer: a really long time (at least 5 years).

Example 2 - You withdraw $10,000 in 2014. Your immediate cost of the withdrawal is $3,500 leaving you with $6,500. Additionally, since the S&P 500 returned 13% in 2014, your withdrawal costs you another $1,300 in foregone earnings ($10,000*1.13). Your cash remaining after the withdrawal is $6,500 and the total cost of the withdrawal is $4,800. How long will it take you to simply break even (a 74% return)? Answer: a really long time (at least 3.5 years).

Example 3 - You withdraw $10,000 this year. Your immediate cost of the withdrawal is $3,500 leaving you with $6,500. Lucky for you, the S&P 500 crashed 10%! Your withdrawal saved you $1,000 in potential losses ($10,000*0.10). Your cash remaining after the withdrawal is $6,500 and the total cost of the withdrawal is $2,500. How long will it take you to simply break even (a 38% return)? Answer: not as long as the other examples, but still a long time (at least 2 years).

As you can see, it's a bad idea. Not only will it take forever to break even, but these examples don't take into account the accumulation of compound earnings that you are missing out on. Additionally, you have to be a market wizard and predict a down market for a withdrawal to even come close to making sense (and it still doesn't). 

On top of that, you have to earn around 20% returns (the rough metric I was using to calculate the years in my examples) on your real estate investments - do you really think you can do that as a new real estate investor? 

I'm not trying to dissuade you from your real state goals. I LOVE real estate and LOVE the fact that other people want to jump in. But you have to make smart decisions, and an early 401(k) withdrawal is not one of them. It costs too much money. At the very least, stop contributing to your 401(k) but DO NOT take a withdrawal. Create a budget and develop good financial habits before diving into real estate. Investing in a duplex will not solve your financial problems (assumption based on the need for a hardship withdrawal). 

"Rule No.1: Never lose money. Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1." - W. Buffett

Let me know if you have any questions. 

Do not take the money out of your 401k.  You have the money so use that.  I could find $6,300 by lunch to put down on this property.

The seller should pay for all closing costs in this market.

A better question is what is the rents on this duplex?  That will determine what you should pay.

This post has been removed.

@Brandon Hall Jolly Good Form Sir. /Tips his monocle towards Brandon

@Edward Stephens  sounds like you know what you want to do, you just want someone on the forums to agree with you.

Remember, Real Estate is an asset class. Every asset class has its ups and down, but if you put all your eggs in one basket and disregard the federal incentives to invest in your 401k......

Also, according to the IRS:

  1. If a 401(k) plan provides for hardship distributions, it must provide the specific criteria used to make the determination of hardship. Thus, for example, a plan may provide that a distribution can be made only for medical or funeral expenses, but not for the purchase of a principal residence or for payment of tuition and education expenses. In determining the existence of a need and of the amount necessary to meet the need, the plan must specify and apply nondiscriminatory and objective standards.
  2. (Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(i))

My 401k specifically states that hardship is defined as medical expenses, loss in the family and etc. I would make sure that your company approves your use case, to me it sounds like it would be a liberal interpretation of hardship.

Also, what about cash reserves? Your plan is to buy two properties, how much cash does that leave you if something goes wrong?

Originally posted by @Brandon Hall :

@Edward Stephens

Your foregone earnings are absolutely going to be a cost of the withdrawal. You may be able to earn more in real estate, but don't assume that foregone earnings won't play a role.

Let me demonstrate with examples. I'm going to assume you are in the 25% tax bracket, so right off the bat this withdrawal costs you 35% (25% + 10% penalty). I'm also going to assume you are withdrawing $10,000 (you can apply your actual number to the examples below).

Example 1 -  You withdraw $10,000 in 2013. Your immediate cost of the withdrawal is $3,500 leaving you with $6,500. Additionally, since the S&P 500 returned 32% in 2013, your withdrawal costs you another $3,200 in foregone earnings ($10,000*1.32). Your cash remaining after the withdrawal is $6,500 and the total cost of the withdrawal is $6,700. How long will it take you to simply break even (a 103% return)? Answer: a really long time (at least 5 years).

Example 2 - You withdraw $10,000 in 2014. Your immediate cost of the withdrawal is $3,500 leaving you with $6,500. Additionally, since the S&P 500 returned 13% in 2014, your withdrawal costs you another $1,300 in foregone earnings ($10,000*1.13). Your cash remaining after the withdrawal is $6,500 and the total cost of the withdrawal is $4,800. How long will it take you to simply break even (a 74% return)? Answer: a really long time (at least 3.5 years).

Example 3 - You withdraw $10,000 this year. Your immediate cost of the withdrawal is $3,500 leaving you with $6,500. Lucky for you, the S&P 500 crashed 10%! Your withdrawal saved you $1,000 in potential losses ($10,000*0.10). Your cash remaining after the withdrawal is $6,500 and the total cost of the withdrawal is $2,500. How long will it take you to simply break even (a 38% return)? Answer: not as long as the other examples, but still a long time (at least 2 years).

As you can see, it's a bad idea. Not only will it take forever to break even, but these examples don't take into account the accumulation of compound earnings that you are missing out on. Additionally, you have to be a market wizard and predict a down market for a withdrawal to even come close to making sense (and it still doesn't). 

On top of that, you have to earn around 20% returns (the rough metric I was using to calculate the years in my examples) on your real estate investments - do you really think you can do that as a new real estate investor? 

I'm not trying to dissuade you from your real state goals. I LOVE real estate and LOVE the fact that other people want to jump in. But you have to make smart decisions, and an early 401(k) withdrawal is not one of them. It costs too much money. At the very least, stop contributing to your 401(k) but DO NOT take a withdrawal. Create a budget and develop good financial habits before diving into real estate. Investing in a duplex will not solve your financial problems (assumption based on the need for a hardship withdrawal). 

"Rule No.1: Never lose money. Rule No.2: Never forget rule No.1." - W. Buffett

Let me know if you have any questions. 

 Thank you very very much for replying.  Although I don't agree entirely with your posts, they are definitely articulate and thoughtful.  

(1) I read the book Rich Dad's Prophecy about 6 months ago.  After reading this book, I now know that the Baby Boomer Generation is now starting to retire and they are being federally mandated to withdraw money from their 401(k)s, whether they want to or not. The majority of these 401(k)s are in mutual funds, which hold stocks (among other things).  Baby Boomers will be selling off their 401(k)s (thereby triggering a sale of stock) and there won't be enough new 401(k) enrollees to make up the difference, and this selling glut will drive down stock prices.  Baby Boomers will see what this downward trending stock market is doing to their retirement account balances and will panic, trying to move the money into another investment to minimize losses.  This selloff will further compound the problem, and the stock market will crash.  My research has told me that this crash is not just a guess, but is an inevitability due to the passage of ERISA into law.  For this reason, I stopped contributing to my 401(k) and am trying to use the money already therein for purchases of tangible assets (e.g., real estate, precious metals).  Please read this book.

(2) As Tony Robbins points out in his book Money - Master the Game, "Over any sustained period of time, 96% of actively managed mutual funds are under-performing the market (or their benchmarks)" (Chapter 2.4).  Knowing this, I don't accept your assumption that I or the Average Joe with a 401(k) is receiving anything near the benchmark returns you quoted. 

(3) As I stated before, I'm not paying the taxes on the withdrawal now; I'll be paying them next year at tax time.

(4) To be clear, I have the money to make this purchase now without the hardship withdrawal.  I know it's mind blowing and I know it's atypical, that's why I want all of you to think about it and give me your best counsel.  -Edward

Originally posted by Oliver T.:

Do not take the money out of your 401k.  You have the money so use that.  I could find $6,300 by lunch to put down on this property.

The seller should pay for all closing costs in this market.

A better question is what is the rents on this duplex?  That will determine what you should pay.

 Thanks for your opinion, Andrew.  And I'm glad to know there are people out there who believe I can get the seller to pay the closing costs in this market.  The details of my deal can be found here.

Originally posted by @Bhairavi Patel :

Is there a way that you can convert your 401K into a roth IRA so that you can use it to invest?

 That's a good question.  Some employers allow employees to convert a traditional (pre-tax ) 401(k) into a Roth 401(k), thereby paying the taxes on the account balance at the time of conversion.  I have investigated, and found that this is not allowed on my employer's plan.

As for rollover into an IRA or Roth IRA, it can be done...if and only if I quit my job.

See how they do me?

Two things.  The deal (to my surprise) doesn't look horrible.  You should also be contributing to your 401k to get your company match.  You are making a mistake if you give up free money.  The stock market is not going to crash.  If you think that then invest in something other than stocks in your 401k (bonds etc.).  There is no way that book told you to give up free money.  If it did, I would be surprised.

@Edward Stephens

Great responses - I'm thoroughly enjoying this conversation. See my replies below:

1. I have not read this book, but I have read a lot about this theory. There are plenty of interesting aspects about the theory. For instance, it's a commonly known fact that Baby Boomers do not hold the majority of equities (they actually hold a small proportion to the relative whole). Institutions hold the majority of equities, and their funds have a very long time horizon. Additionally, these boomers have kids who are will be working and investing as the boomers retire and pass away, filling in that demand gap. Will the market be altered? Who knows, nothing is a known fact.

But let's assume you are right and the market is due for a major correction. In this case, it makes less sense to stop contributing to your 401(k). Why? Because when you contribute, you are likely contributing on a bi-weekly basis. If the market crashes, you will be buying stock, on a bi-weekly basis, as the market goes down, bottoms, and recovers. You will average down your cost basis and be potentially sitting on massive gains.

2. First off, Tony Robbins is a motivational speaker and I wouldn't be taking financial advice from him. It is true that mutual funds charge unnecessary fees, but the industry is trending towards transparency and those managers are being quickly weeded out. Additionally, you get to choose which funds you want your 401(k) to invest in, meaning you can achieve similar returns to the market as a whole. You won't achieve the S&P because your mutual fund managers are mitigate risks and therefore returns suffer. But this shouldn't be a driving factor to take a distribution from your 401(k).

Additionally, you have to factor in a company match and the accumulation of compound earnings on a pre-tax investment (which increases your earnings power).

3. True, you aren't paying on the withdrawal now, but what happens when you sink these funds into a property and can no longer afford the tax liability created by the withdrawal?

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by @Jordan Thibodeau :

@Brandon Hall Jolly Good Form Sir. /Tips his monocle towards Brandon

@Edward Stephens sounds like you know what you want to do, you just want someone on the forums to agree with you.

Remember, Real Estate is an asset class. Every asset class has its ups and down, but if you put all your eggs in one basket and disregard the federal incentives to invest in your 401k......

Also, according to the IRS:

  1. If a 401(k) plan provides for hardship distributions, it must provide the specific criteria used to make the determination of hardship. Thus, for example, a plan may provide that a distribution can be made only for medical or funeral expenses, but not for the purchase of a principal residence or for payment of tuition and education expenses. In determining the existence of a need and of the amount necessary to meet the need, the plan must specify and apply nondiscriminatory and objective standards.
  2. (Reg. §1.401(k)-1(d)(3)(i))

My 401k specifically states that hardship is defined as medical expenses, loss in the family and etc. I would make sure that your company approves your use case, to me it sounds like it would be a liberal interpretation of hardship.

Also, what about cash reserves? Your plan is to buy two properties, how much cash does that leave you if something goes wrong?

 Thanks for the post, and nice use of a South Park meme to express your opinion on something as complex as real estate investing using a 401(k).  

I feared after I wrote the first post of this thread that it would sound like "I want someone to agree with me".  That really, really isn't the case.  I just want to make sure I have the facts, all the relevant facts, before making my decision.  The opinion that you and 90% of the people on this forum share is the opinion of the traditional American worker/saver.  Socking away money in the sky somewhere for retirement has become something of a sacred cow, and I'm only asking people not to prejudge my proposition and to actually contemplate it for a couple minutes. 

My employer and investment management company have already verbally approved such a withdrawal for down payment and closing costs on a primary residence (and I told them it was both units of a duplex).

Your point about adequate cash reserves is well taken.  Without diving into it too much and diverging from the exactness of this thread, suffice it to say I will keep plenty of reserves on hand for every property I buy.  If you want more information or want to continue discussion about this point, PM me.  Thanks again.  -Edward

Originally posted by Oliver T.:

Two things.  The deal (to my surprise) doesn't look horrible.  You should also be contributing to your 401k to get your company match.  You are making a mistake if you give up free money.  The stock market is not going to crash.  If you think that then invest in something other than stocks in your 401k (bonds etc.).  There is no way that book told you to give up free money.  If it did, I would be surprised.

 Anyone with discerning eyes who sees a giant neon sign flashing "FREE MONEY" should suspect something immediately.  To say "The stock market is not going to crash" and provide no evidence of your position comes across as dismissive and in my opinion insulting.  You sound like a future victim, and I'm not trying to be rude or humorous.  Please read up on the topics I've mentioned, then come back and post.  I'd like to hear your opinions then, even if they totally oppose everything I've said.  -Edward

Horrible idea. Just listen to all your rebutals. Cost of doing the transaction. The hoops you are jumping through. I like that you are thinking outside the box, but I hate this idea. Way too much speculation.

Originally posted by @Brandon Hall :

@Edward Stephens

Great responses - I'm thoroughly enjoying this conversation. See my replies below:

1. I have not read this book, but I have read a lot about this theory. There are plenty of interesting aspects about the theory. For instance, it's a commonly known fact that Baby Boomers do not hold the majority of equities (they actually hold a small proportion to the relative whole). Institutions hold the majority of equities, and their funds have a very long time horizon. Additionally, these boomers have kids who are will be working and investing as the boomers retire and pass away, filling in that demand gap. Will the market be altered? Who knows, nothing is a known fact.

But let's assume you are right and the market is due for a major correction. In this case, it makes less sense to stop contributing to your 401(k). Why? Because when you contribute, you are likely contributing on a bi-weekly basis. If the market crashes, you will be buying stock, on a bi-weekly basis, as the market goes down, bottoms, and recovers. You will average down your cost basis and be potentially sitting on massive gains.

2. First off, Tony Robbins is a motivational speaker and I wouldn't be taking financial advice from him. It is true that mutual funds charge unnecessary fees, but the industry is trending towards transparency and those managers are being quickly weeded out. Additionally, you get to choose which funds you want your 401(k) to invest in, meaning you can achieve similar returns to the market as a whole. You won't achieve the S&P because your mutual fund managers are mitigate risks and therefore returns suffer. But this shouldn't be a driving factor to take a distribution from your 401(k).

Additionally, you have to factor in a company match and the accumulation of compound earnings on a pre-tax investment (which increases your earnings power).

3. True, you aren't paying on the withdrawal now, but what happens when you sink these funds into a property and can no longer afford the tax liability created by the withdrawal?

Hope this helps.

 I'm totally exhausted and appreciative of all the comments i've received.  Maybe I'll answer more, but for now I'll make this short so I can grab some breakfast.

(1)  Let's agree to disagree.

(2)  This fact came from David Swensen, Chief Investment Officer of Yale University.  It's in Chapter 6.2 of this book also, if you're looking it up.  And please don't try to discredit this fact by insinuating Tony Robbins has no business publishing information on financial education.  He is a very rich man, an owner of several companies, and has lived a life.  

(3) The property is projected to be cashflow positive, so this isn't an issue.  Can you (or anyone) find an example of a time when taxes skyrocketed for landlords and rents did not increase? If so, PM me, but let's not diverge from the original intent of the thread.

Thanks.  -Edward

Well I own 2M worth of rental real estate and contribute to a 401k.

I feel bad for someone that makes irrational moves based on a book.  Even with some success and the ability to quit my job right now I am not.  I also put money into my 401k to get the company match and not a penny more.  That is free money my company will pay me.  It is actually part of your compensation.

I dont need a 401k, i put money into it for the match.  That is a 100% gain.  Invest in bonds then.  I said that once.  I dont know if the market will crash, i think its doubtful.  My money will be out of my 401k and in a self directed account most likely.  At no point will I take the 10% penalty.  Again, invest in BONDS in your 401k.

If your company doesn't offer a match this conversation doesn't even matter.  I would reccomend real estate over a 401k with no match any day of the week.

It is concerning that you need $6,500 to close on this deal and you want to use your 401k and take a tax hit to do it.  I would rather use a credit card (which I use all the time for down-payments).

@Edward Stephens

Did I say Tony Robbins has no business providing financial education or did I say you shouldn't take his financial advice (aka investment advice). He is quite a successful guy and I would take business advice from him in a heart beat, but I wouldn't take his investment advice as that's not his bread and butter. This is further supported by the fact that he interviewed successful financial analysts and economics professionals to develop his thoughts. He delivers true facts nonetheless, but don't think that's a product of his personal financial expertise.

When I made the comment (#3) about the tax liability, what I meant was that if you take this distribution and sink those funds into a property, how will you pay the tax liability created by the 401(k) distribution? At tax time, the IRS will be coming for the taxes on that distribution. If you no longer have funds because everything is in your property, what are you going to do?

My clients who have taken such a distribution generally don't have adequate reserves and plan on saving the cashflow from the property until you build up those reserves. Their property may be "projected cashflow positive", but what happens if a big capital expenditure pops up? Read one of my BP articles about the triplex I bought. It was an amazing deal, projected ~25% IRR. And I had to unexpectedly replace the roof in the first month I owned it because my insurance dropped my from coverage. I had projected to replace the roof in 4 years. So much for projections.

You are making too many assumptions which makes this entire plan that much more risky. 

The scope of the original question was: should I take an early withdrawal. I said no, and am sticking to my guns. I've provided you with quantitative examples to illustrate why it's a bad idea. You have backed up your thoughts with projections, assumptions, and advice from various business owners (even your deal analysis is choc full of assumptions and estimations). Nothing you have said supports the decision to make an (expensive) early withdrawal.

If you were a pro who had a proven track record of buying good deals and making sound real estate decisions, my advice may look different. But for your first property, a 401(k) withdrawal is too expensive and too risky to undertake.

pulling out money from a 401k earning 5-6% return on investment to invest in realestate that has much greater returns in itself is a good decision. Not to mention the fact that 401k barely pays dividends (atleast my plan doesn't) and it's simply only a dollar cost averaging type of investment, there is no compound interest, just free money matched from your employer- which for me is a whopping 10% so let's say I max out my 401k at 18k a year, wow I just gave my self a 86 cent raise if I work 40 hours a week for 52 weeks or 1,800 a year. 401k is for people who have no clue about what a good investment is and where to get better ROI's and compound interest- which would help make up for the rate of inflation. Op is on the right track don't be fooled like the other 97% thinking a 401k is a great thing because it's not. UNLESS you have your tenants paying towards your 401k investment.

Originally posted by @Andrew T.:

On second thought, you can withdraw from your 401k penalty free for your first home purchase.  This would qualify.

This rule is for IRAs, not 401(k)s.

@Edward Stephens

I've also read those same books. I hate Tony Robbins but I like this book. One thing mentioned in Kiyosaki's book it seems you are forgetting is that Rich Dad became wealthy because he didn't pay as much in taxes as Poor Dad. So paying 40% in taxes would seem to go against the advice. 

Why not get a HML? You'll have more money next year.

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