I am OOS investor looking for opportunities around the country. Properties in St Louis seem like they could cash-flow.
city-data.com tells me the population is falling by 11%
Zillow tells me house prices will fall by about 7%
What's the story on the ground, how is the market feeling and why are things looking a little challenging right now.
Can anyone share any suburb recommendations?
Saint Louis City proper is risky depending on the street. There are Only a few pockets that are growing and being redeveloped. Near UMSL or WashU.
But as an example, you have the Chase Park Plaza, nicest hotel in the city, Forrest Park and super nice, beautiful homes. Get up the street to Delmar and it’s really sketchy, really quick.
Probably like a lot of places, it’s neighborhood to neighborhood. Being OOS isn’t the ideal, and I would caution you to try the burbs first. South St Louis County is a better bet. St Charles County across Missouri River is mostly good.
Best bet is come look for yourself with a good local guide. Plenty of realtors around.
Keep in mind, my perspective is that I’m into commercial RE, owner operator in STL so I pick and choose very carefully. Only have 1 location in the City. The rest are west of I-170 and south of I-70 outside city of Saint Louis.
Morning Wendy. A lot of investors are having great success investing in multi family all around St. Louis but you need to be cautious of which neighborhoods you get into as they can be dramatically different street to street. MF is better at cash flow than sfr considering the price they are selling at.
@Wendy Brockman I agree with Greg in that the city of St Louis his very hit and miss. Those statistics you are seeing are probably specific to the city of St. Louis and are not indicative of the metro area as a whole. Saint Charles county, for instance, is growing as are other counties and municipalities. We are investing further west, and not in the city. I would be happy to discuss with you and try to steer you in the right direction. I am an investor, realtor, attorney, and my company provides property management, so we are a one stop shop for OOS investors like yourself. We also actively market for distressed properties. Would love to connect. Shoot me a PM if you would like to discuss.
I see a lot of class a being build in the city. A lot! But i also notice a lot of empty balconies on these buildings built in the last 2 years.
Thanks guys - seems like some of the development I read about is not going ahead. Any other developments in the pipeline?
What do you think of Trulia crime maps? I've seen a few places in B and C+ (niche.com ratings) areas that also have low crime.
@Wendy Brockman . I’m from Saint Louis I own property in soulard class A property to me and I own property in north county which is the rental market it will most likely never appreciate but rent is high for what you pay for a house Saint Louis has everything if you want class A properties in the city go Soulard Benton Park Tower Grove if you’re looking for upcoming I’d say Tower Grove East or Benton Park west and let’s not forget Cherokee as long as you’re on the main strip Cherokee is great you go back into the neighborhood I’m pretty sure you will get robbed that area has been trying to gentrify for years. It’s rally block by block but one place I can tell you for sure not to invest in is Dutchtown!! I’ve had quite a few encounters there..
Definitely drive the city on the ground with a local investor to get a feel for neighborhoods, streets, blocks that are desirable vs. ones to avoid.
Also the vast majority of the small (2-4 units) multi stock and even most 8-12 unit buildings, in the city specifically, are around 100 years old. This can be a blessing and a curse. For one, they don't make'em like this anymore; these all-brick exteriors are like little tanks, it's tough to ding them up much, but the level of deferred maintenance on roofs, porches, windows, systems, and the actual interiors can be rather extensive and often difficult to assess up front. When well-maintained, they have a ton of charm and historic character that are very desirable. When ignored over time, they snowball and can be an absolute money pit while you try to catch up. Ask me how I know, lol.
It depends on what type of asset you are buying, where and how many units.
I was involved in a very large multi family portfolio in STL, over 1,600 units ranging from St. Ann MO all the way up to union.As a multi family investor looking for bigger deals, i stay far from this market. Even in the better areas, i saw occupancy drop and rents that are not supporting current prices. If you'd like to connect i'd be glad to share my experience there. But i personally look to invest elsewhere even though we have footing in STL market.
Not to say there aren't areas with upside, but if you are already from OOS, i would look in better markets, even if STL pricing seems attractive.
If you're serious, I would strongly advise you to take multiple trips to St Louis to learn firsthand and network. This is not a homogeneous market where you can safely play it from afar. It's highly mixed, neighborhood to neighborhood, and block to block. I would NOT put much stock into articles or resources that summarize the St. Louis market, whether they are positive or negative. The city and county could not be more different than each other, and even parts of the county that are widely disparate from each other. To be successful here, there are no generalities, you need to know the details.
Paul mckee is a big player in the market. But he's not a go, no-go indicator I would personally follow. Stl-pd is focusing on exposing the bad deal with a particular bias.
Same thing with the try privatizing of the airport.
Or stan kronke moving the Rams to la. then demanding more stl taxpayer money to develop on the flood plain next to the burning toxic waste dump that's below the water table which could potentially seep into the missouri river contamating the entire drinking supply.
Thanks everyone, very valuable information.
@Wendy Brockman everybody that posted provide great feedback from their view point. I been investing here in STL since 2007. I am originally from Chicago so it was easy to know the areas.. here its that but also a block by block situation. you could be on a great block then go to the very next and its completely opposite. I own in South City in the Dutchtown, Gravois Park areas and these areas do have some rough pockets but you see alot of investors coming as the dumpsters are rolling in and buildings that has been sitting for long periods of time are being fully renovated. The best indicators is seeing things like that, talking with the alderman or govt offices like assessor, chamber of commerce and seeing what areas are going through a transformation of sorts. Right now the inventory is really low on properties up for rent.. but investors are grabbing them as soon as they are coming available.