Peter Harris Coaching - Disappointed

62 Replies

Peter Harris, for those that don't know, is the co-author of Commercial Real estate for Dummies book. I have read it multiple times and I even watched all his videos on YouTube. One day I finally went to his website and it talked about his coaching program. So I inquired about it. By the next day I was contacted by someone to get more information on me and what I have done so far in real estate investing. That interview lasted about an hour. I was contacted a couple other times in between the first and second interview and was told many times that the only way they get paid is from splitting your deals that you work on together. Which was fine with me. I was happy about this cause some coaching programs wanted $10k - $30k up front which I don't have. I even mentioned this to them and they said, "we work differently than other coaching programs".

Then the second interview came a few days later. And they ran through how their coaching program works. They talked a lot about working under fire. Meaning they don't just sit you down to teach you, they teach you by you actually going out and working on live deals which they help you with. They pretty much take you by the hand and walk you through the deal. They teach you how to look for deals, analyze markets, how to structure the deal and present the offers, how to do due diligence, and how to manage the properties. And every other aspect of commercial investing. You get 2 coaching calls (apparently with Peter himself) per week, which has a few students on the call, and a one on one call as well (not sure how often). They also talked about some deal assessment review board that helps you run the numbers of your deals.

Then the disappointment came. They told me that I would need to put up $10k - $20k up front for the training. And on top of that, I would also have to pay $197/month for "tool fees". I assume this means paying for their software that they use (e-partner software). I was like WTF? They had told me that they only take the split of the deal and that "they were a different type of coaching program" to find out that they are just the same as everyone else.

I was so disappointed. Looking for a good mentor that will help you through deals for only a split of the deals is very hard to find. I had one when I started doing residential back in 2001. And finding one for commercial now is nearly impossible. So when I found Mr. Harris's coaching I was excited, only to be let down.

I hate when people / companies mislead people. If they would have told me up front what their real fees were, I would have said thank you and been on my way. I could have respected that. But they (Peter Harris and his company) quickly lost any respect I had for them. Instead I wasted a bunch of time on phone calls for them to hype up their program only to be let down.

Just thought I would post my thoughts here for anyone considering their coaching program so they are not get misled like I was.

Karma

I could also understand one OR the other. But not both. Why would I give 50% of my deals to someone if I already had to pay them $20k for their coaching? I don't think so.

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Hi Karma,

It says on your website.

"To date we have completed more than 319 real estate transactions."

I know before you mentioned those were residential. If that's the case where are the properties owned or the money made from those transactions??

Even if 3,000 a deal was held back that with no growth that is close to 1 million dollars cash to play with for investing. You are saying you do not have 20k to 30k etc.

Time is money. I get offers all the time from agents wanting to learn commercial. They act like they want to do it and then 1 week later thinks it's too hard and quit. I waste a week of my life I never get back that I could be working with my clients on. These days I just say 25k or higher upfront non-refundable rebated back off your split as an agent when your first deal closes. This gets them to go away.

Closing commercial deals is a lot of work and takes time to put together. If you have considerable money to invest then just use a commercial broker who will help you learn the ropes and they get a transaction or two out of it. Of course you would have to show bank statements, personal financial statements, and retirement accounts with also stocks etc.

Medium allworldrealtyJoel Owens, All World Realty | [email protected] | 678‑779‑2798 | http://www.AWcommercial.com | Podcast Guest on Show #47

Karma - Sorry that you feel they mislead you (I've never heard of the guy). I presume you did not or were unable to put the money.

It's tough to get started when you don't have any money. It's even tougher when you have time and other constraints, too.

However, that describes virtually everyone who gets started in real estate, or at last those who post, visit or even just lurk on these forums.

Paying for education is pretty typical. Since many, many people never follow through and perform or produce, I don't find it at all surprising that a legitimate dealmaker would want you to have some skin in the game. Maybe you're just not ready for this type business or could find a way to figure it out on your own.

Alternatively, look at medical doctors. They've either borrower up the ying-yang to get through med school, or demonstrated their commitment via great grades and got assistance for their tuition. Or, commercial airline pilots who have either paid a fortune for aviation training from primary, multi-engine and transition to heavy jet type ratings or served in the military and gave up many years of their lives to serve their county.

For a great discussion on the value-for-value read Robert J. Ringer's book, 'Million Dollar Habits.' Happy reading!

@Joel Owens , those deals were 8 years ago. Since then I have been out of the game and only now getting back into it. And on top of that (and to make a long story short) my ex-wife stole more than $800k from me when we split and we are in a nasty child custody case which costs a crap load of money. So no, I don't have any money to give someone for coaching.

I am not one to just sit around and not do anything either. I have studied David Lindahl's AHR course and I have also studied Ray Alcorn's Dealmakers Guide course and anything else I can find on BP and YouTube. I have analyzed over 260 properties and have made 64 offers to date since I started but not getting anything excepted, except one offer which fell through anyways. And that is why I feel I need a mentor, because clearly I must be doing something wrong to not get anything excepted.

Hello @Karma Senge ,

I think the coaching rate quoted does sound similar to what others are offering. I think part of the problem maybe the apartment arena itself.

There hasn't been this much demand for apartment properties probably ever. Creative financing is much tougher when the underlying demand for the product is so white hot. Imagine if your an apartment owner and you perceive your asset is very very in demand.

Your less likely to entertain creativity yes?

Originally posted by @Karma Senge :
@Joel Owens , those deals were 8 years ago. Since then I have been out of the game and only now getting back into it. And on top of that (and to make a long story short) my ex-wife stole more than $800k from me when we split and we are in a nasty child custody case which costs a crap load of money. So no, I don't have any money to give someone for coaching.
I am not one to just sit around and not do anything either. I have studied David Lindahl's AHR course and I have also studied Ray Alcorn's Dealmakers Guide course and anything else I can find on BP and YouTube. I have analyzed over 260 properties and have made 64 offers to date since I started but not getting anything excepted, except one offer which fell through anyways. And that is why I feel I need a mentor, because clearly I must be doing something wrong to not get anything excepted.

Well Karma, my advice to folks is:

Go residential and learn how to solve problems for sellers and buyers.

There is a video on upper scale homes that have little equity here

http://www.selectleasepurchasehomes.com/

Learn sub2, lease options and wraps for controlling or acquiring.

or....

Go multi and learn from a proven teacher like @Ben Leybovich

See his modestly priced program at

http://justaskbenwhy.com/

Find a problem, offer a solution. Make a profit.

Medium banner reiskills 997   copyBrian Gibbons, REISkills | [email protected] | 818‑400‑3046 | http://MyREISkills.com

Hi Karma,

I am not saying owner finance with nothing down can't be done.

I will say that it was much more prevalent in 2009,2010 when commercial markets were frozen and people couldn't sell because they didn't know where the bottom was. So many buyers with a bunch of capital were sitting on the sidelines. They would rather wait to see market bumping up from the bottom with less return to curb risk exposure.

Back then you could do owner finance and the hope was after turning around and the market recovering in a few years you would get the equity appreciation and solve the sellers issues.

Today there is too many buyers that have cash that want to buy property whether it's commercial or residential. Sellers do not need to owner finance the whole thing. If they do they still want a down payment among other things.

If you talk to people that have owner financed deals with little down many were from 2 to 4 year ago and now they might still have little to no money down on a deal but have considerable assets to put up at stake.

"I have analyzed over 260 properties and have made 64 offers to date since I started but not getting anything excepted, except one offer which fell through anyways. And that is why I feel I need a mentor, because clearly I must be doing something wrong to not get anything excepted."

I think it's just the state of the current market cycle. You need to keep submitting offers and offers until you land that one in a thousand deal.

I get clients all the time calling in with 500,000 to millions wanting to buy commercial property. These are the people you are competing against. Not trying to discourage just do not expect no money down deals for 100% finance to be out there everywhere. Even if you find that you still need money to close, due diligence costs, and some reserves to eek by until you can build up the cash stream.

Medium allworldrealtyJoel Owens, All World Realty | [email protected] | 678‑779‑2798 | http://www.AWcommercial.com | Podcast Guest on Show #47

@Brian Gibbons , I know residential. And to be honest, I never want to do residential again.

Karma - I suggest that maybe part of the problem is mindset-related. I know I'm on thin ice here, so you don't have to remind me.

When I read your posts, I pick up a certain vibe. Given the facts and circumstances that you have mentioned, you'd benefit greatly by working on the stuff in your life that distracts you and is preventing you from reaching your goals. These issues create conflicts that affect your work in ways you are likely blind to. Put the deal making to the side for a while and read some of the classics, like Napoleon Hill's 'Grow Rich with Peace of Mind.'

If I'm wrong, there's no downside. If I'm right, you could get past this period of being stuck. I doubt if it's a lack of skill problem.

Brian Gibbons - since I'm a bit of a lexicographer and a stickler for language, I suggest that Karma is always honest, however he probably means to say: "to be candid."

I was being conversational. I felt the OPs frustration.

@Rick H. that was a generous response.

Very few folks at BP have had true training in Mortgage Origination, Probate, BKs, Divorce, Wraps, AITDs, CFDs, Lease Options, Title Problems, Sub2 and Land Trusts, negotiating with the seller, DOTs and Mortgages, subordination of notes, substitution of collateral, etc.

Residential is where the OPPORTUNITY is, to solve problems for home sellers.

I HEAR you getting dissappointed, I hear it all day.

I had a student contact me that she paid $30K to learn REI from a very well known GURU. She was an experienced flipper, and then 90 days later she found out the hard way her "coach" was in a cubicle reading out of a book, never done a deal. It is the industry plague.

She was pissed, felt duped and conned. And unfortunately it happens every day.

Mind set is key, as Rick said. Finding a "mentor" is not easy. There is a thread about "finding a mentor" here

http://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2014/04/16/finding-mentor-real-estate/

Being a bird dogger for a wholesaler and making a small amount of money might be an answer.

Working at a title company or real estate attorney's office might be an answer.

Even working as a realtor's assistant might be an answer.

@K. Marie Poe undefined

Here is my favorite inspirational source, the late Jim Rohn.

“When you know what you want, and want it bad enough, you will find a way to get it.”

“You cannot change your destination overnight, but you can change your direction overnight”

“You don't get paid for the hour. You get paid for the value you bring to the hour.”

“Success is doing ordinary things extraordinarily well.”

“Let others lead small lives, but not you. Let others argue over small things, but not you. Let others cry over small hurts, but not you. Let others leave their future in someone else's hands, but not you.”

“If you go to work on your goals, your goals will go to work on you. If you go to work on your plan, your plan will go to work on you. Whatever good things we build end up building us.”

“To solve any problem, here are three questions to ask yourself: First, what could I do? Second, what could I read? And third, who could I ask?”

“If you don't design your own life plan, chances are you'll fall into someone else's plan. And guess what they have planned for you? Not much.”

“Without a sense of urgency, desire loses its value.”

“Discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment.”

@Karma Senge MAN I love your name! Go get em brother!

Medium banner reiskills 997   copyBrian Gibbons, REISkills | [email protected] | 818‑400‑3046 | http://MyREISkills.com

Hi Karma ( I, too, love your name),

My first ventures into real estate investing began around 2002. I know how frustrating it is to work so hard for something only to lose it, the knowledge or techniques to become out of date and to feel that you have lost your 'edge'.

However, I want to remind you that the same mentality that allowed you to first build your wealth still exists and is retained within you. The same drive to succeed.

You may feel humbled now, and unsure of what move to make. This is understandable. It demonstrates that you are willing to learn from your mistakes and the right mentor will see that. While I do believe it is important to have mentors (I, myself, am looking for one), it is important to not undervalue what you bring to the table.

If you are unwilling or unable to bring the funds requested to the table, be willing to start small. Eat humble pie and begin at the beginning. The commercial deals will come, you just have to build a foundation first.

Undoubtedly, many more of the experts will chime in with great advice and wisdom. Take their advice seriously, but remember that it is you, and only you, who is responsible for your success at the end of the day.

206‑849‑5730

Great Info here guys. Thanks.

Not sure if you are still interested in his teachings, but I found out he has another website, The Apartment Consultant.  This may be a better introduction than the coaching program.  He has a couple of free e-books and a $99 home study course which you can check out here. The training on the site seems to be geared towards beginning as well as experienced investors.  If you do a couple of deals with this info and his other videos, this may allow you to pay for the coaching down the line. If nothing else, you will save $9,900 before you decide if you like his teaching style.

I've never heard of the guy either, but there are hundreds I haven't heard of, I don't look for them either.

Saying commercial here it seems multi-family is always the path taken, so far it's not defined, just to clarify, Karma, are you wanting to get in to multi-family or is there some other area of commercial property you're trying to get into?

Sounds to be like "burn-out" on single family homes, I'd rather have 3 houses than 6 apartments any day (comparable properties), from just about all aspects, financing, liquidity, marketability, vacancy, insurance and time to manage, residential SFDs edge out small multi family in my book. Now, taking say 24 + units, a complex, that's another matter.

You probably have the skills needed for multi family, might not for retail or office or business anchored operations. You probably don't really need a mentor, for a few apartments, it's not rocket science, I'm feeling it's reluctance and looking on the other side of the hill at what you believe might be greener pastures, they may not be as green as you think.

I got bored easily too, I'd find some niche, get that down, get bored and move on to a different aspect, just because it was more fun. But, you can't give up what you know and what makes money, especially when you have a proven track record. The bread and butter needs to be at every diner table.

I'm taking a wild guess, divorce can take a lot out of you, sounds to me like you just need a little "eye of the tiger" back, not someone to hold your hand. And, finding 100% financing certainly can be done, not every market is hot, not every seller needs cash, you need to get to know owners, retiring landlords are a good source to begin with.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck :)

@Karma Senge

Medium logoscopiccroppedblue2Bill Gulley, General Real Estate Academy | https://generalrealestateacademy.com

I don't remember who offered the coaching, but he had a program whereby the student was to put $9,000 into the training. The student and investor would then split 50/50 for a period of time, but the student was guaranteed the first $3000 of all of the deals until the original $9K was repaid.

He explained it was a way to make certain the student was genuinely working on the advice given.

I liked the concept and the skin in the game factor. 

Medium webuysmallmultifamilesRonald Perich, We Buy Small Multifamilies | [email protected] | 314‑896‑0669 | http://webuysmallmultifamilies.com

Disclosure: Mentee

I'm doing the mentoring program with Peter Harris, have been in it for a few months now and have had a great experience so far. There are barriers to entry to the wonderful world of commercial real estate, as there are in all other professions, and this is one of them. It makes sense (to me) for one's mentor to stand to gain on an equity basis, because for someone like that, that's their opportunity cost. Motivations are aligned.

I'm sorry if you had a bad experience, Peter offers a great service and is a wonderful, professional guy. My 2 cents. Ken

@Account Closed : Hi Kenneth. Did you pay for the program ? I am thinking for enrolling but I cant afford 10-15k. To be honest as a beginner even a couple of thousand dollars would bring enough skin in the game.

Also, your comment was on Oct 2nd 2015. Whats the update ? Were you able to close any deals. Please share.

Thanks,

Eyan

@Eyan Lakhani Yes that money is returned when the profit split target is reached, in this case $250k each.

I am currently in contract for a property.

I am nowhere finished with the program, but so far I am very happy with it in general. For someone starting out in an industry as opaque as commercial re, honest advice (aligned by indirect equity interest) on deals you are working on, and general guidance from an experienced player is worth a lot!

The learning curve with commercial is steeper. You have to learn how to analyze properties, the lingo, capital structure / syndication, etc.

I also like Ray Alcorn and Dave Lindahl's materials and recommend them. Books by William Poorvu are also some of my favs.

@Account Closed : Thank you for the update. I am barely starting out and yet to close my 1st deal. Commercial real estate (businesses, corporate and residential complexes) is the ultimate goal. I dont have the money for a program like that, but thanks for your update. I'll consider it when I am ready for it..!

Whenever an older thread like this is resurrected, I always wonder how everything went.  Today, I decided to see if I could find out.  A quick Google search turned up these two podcasts.  I haven't listened to them, so I have no idea the content, but it looks like he did ok for himself.

http://investfloridashow.com/ep-56-karma-senge-tri...

http://www.kevinbupp.com/ep-45-how-this-self-defense-instructor-went-from-zero-to-318-multi-family-units-in-less-than-6-months-with-karma-senge/

@Jason Krick : Yeah. Its always interesting to get the update. Like TV series, season 2.

I was gonna contact @Karma Senge but I realized he has been inactive on BP for 10 months. 

Thanks for sharing the podcast though.